Curse

Sirius Bsns · Sep 18, 2010, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Ganking has absolutely nothing to do with your utopian vision of equity.

You're right!

Ganking: has to do with the idea of targeting and overpowering a higher threat for the sake of preventing victory in succession. If any particular guild or group wins HoH excessively and flaunts their titles in town enough times, they become a target for other groups. So when inside HoH, players remember the HoH messages, recognize the guild tag(s), recall those members flaunting their titles and rank-spiking, and carry out their spite accordingly.

All I did was convey a reason why ganking is good for the sake of change, keeping the outcome sporadic as opposed to redundant. Watching the same team dominate HoH for a whole entire day is not exactly encouraging, and over time, it would begin to dishearten players and drive them away because they're simply tired of facing the same team while standing little to no chance due to the OP'd and imbalanced team build(s) they're using. Meanwhile, the elitist groups [r11++] increase in fame, get their r15 from holding HoH in 1v1 all day and night every night [if 1v1 were the only existing option], and proceed to taunt, demean, and step on everyone lesser in rank with the flaunting of titles and /rank spikes... because they CAN.

So, if there's a glass of water filled to the middle, is it half full or half empty? I see it as half full because ganking allows for the possibility of overthrowing of the r11++ groups, thus enabling teams to stop the r11++ HoH-holders from overstaying their welcome and making it to r15 in a week [...an exaggeration, I know... but you get the point!].

Simath · Sep 18, 2010, 12:47 AM // 00:47

This has been happening since '05.

*lemming* · Sep 18, 2010, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

You're right!

Ganking: has to do with the idea of targeting and overpowering a higher threat for the sake of preventing victory in succession. If any particular guild or group wins HoH excessively and flaunts their titles in town enough times, they become a target for other groups. So when inside HoH, players remember the HoH messages, recognize the guild tag(s), recall those members flaunting their titles and rank-spiking, and carry out their spite accordingly.

All I did was convey a reason why ganking is good for the sake of change, keeping the outcome sporadic as opposed to redundant. Watching the same team dominate HoH for a whole entire day is not exactly encouraging, and over time, it would begin to dishearten players and drive them away because they're simply tired of facing the same team while standing little to no chance due to the OP'd and imbalanced team build(s) they're using. Meanwhile, the elitist groups [r11++] increase in fame, get their r15 from holding HoH in 1v1 all day and night every night [if 1v1 were the only existing option], and proceed to taunt, demean, and step on everyone lesser in rank with the flaunting of titles and /rank spikes... because they CAN.

So, if there's a glass of water filled to the middle, is it half full or half empty? I see it as half full because ganking allows for the possibility of overthrowing of the r11++ groups, thus enabling teams to stop the r11++ HoH-holders from overstaying their welcome and making it to r15 in a week [...an exaggeration, I know... but you get the point!].

By your logic, successful professional sports franchises should be forced to flip coins for their wins. After all, their dominance is disheartening other players.

Oh wait, that would completely ruin the concept of competition. Why is a random factor good for the game?

Also, it's a little embarrassing that you make spite out to be some kind of positive behavior.

Sirius Bsns · Sep 18, 2010, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

By your logic, successful professional sports franchises should be forced to flip coins for their wins. After all, their dominance is disheartening other players.

Oh wait, that would completely ruin the concept of competition. Why is a random factor good for the game?

Also, it's a little embarrassing that you make spite out to be some kind of positive behavior.

How did I make spite out of positive behavior? Is it because I identified the process by which many players react and gank? Also, the difference between real life Professional Sports and Guild Wars is that, real life, we've been perfectly balanced by our creator [whomever he/she/it may be] so that when we compete, we both have equal chances of winning by default whereas in Guild Wars, no such "perfect balance" exists. So, to say that both instances, and the rules and balance therein, are equivalent is worthy of embarrassment.

Wrath of m0o · Sep 18, 2010, 04:26 AM // 04:26

/not signed

I cant remember the last time i held halls, years ago. But when i do get to halls i enjoy kicking/ganking the team that is holding it.

*lemming* · Sep 18, 2010, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

How did I make spite out of positive behavior? Is it because I identified the process by which many players react and gank? Also, the difference between real life Professional Sports and Guild Wars is that, real life, we've been perfectly balanced by our creator [whomever he/she/it may be] so that when we compete, we both have equal chances of winning by default whereas in Guild Wars, no such "perfect balance" exists. So, to say that both instances, and the rules and balance therein, are equivalent is worthy of embarrassment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Ganking: has to do with the idea of targeting and overpowering a higher threat for the sake of preventing victory in succession. If any particular guild or group wins HoH excessively and flaunts their titles in town enough times, they become a target for other groups. So when inside HoH, players remember the HoH messages, recognize the guild tag(s), recall those members flaunting their titles and rank-spiking, and carry out their spite accordingly.

Watching the same team dominate HoH for a whole entire day is not exactly encouraging, and over time, it would begin to dishearten players and drive them away because they're simply tired of facing the same team while standing little to no chance due to the OP'd and imbalanced team build(s) they're using. Meanwhile, the elitist groups [r11++] increase in fame, get their r15 from holding HoH in 1v1 all day and night every night [if 1v1 were the only existing option], and proceed to taunt, demean, and step on everyone lesser in rank with the flaunting of titles and /rank spikes... because they CAN.

Read your own post. The implication that ganking is some kind of morally justifiable blow against the man for the undertrodden is impossible to miss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Also, the difference between real life Professional Sports and Guild Wars is that, real life, we've been perfectly balanced by our creator [whomever he/she/it may be] so that when we compete, we both have equal chances of winning by default whereas in Guild Wars, no such "perfect balance" exists.

You know why it doesn't exist in HA?

Because the third team in a two team match can determine the outcome unilaterally.

Darth The Xx · Sep 18, 2010, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

One of the sollutions would be to ban gankers for match manipulation. It's so obvious when third team caps altar and 2nd team goes full gank on team who just lost altar.
I mean you either don't deserve to be here because you're terrible and ruining the game or you just want the manipulate the match which is a valid reason for a ban.

Darth_The_Xx: you think holding team likes when they have 10-15 consec and then they get ganked?? It's just killing the game and making lots of ppl quit.

Those sort of stuff happen all the time I can tell you I have more than plenty of experience with getting ganked.
So ban the gankers (match manipulators) ty!

Yeah, getting ganked sucks, so do a lot of things, just be cause it sucks doesnt mean it should be in the game. You think the teams who keep constantly getting rolled by a 10-15 holding team like it?

Elnino · Sep 18, 2010, 07:46 AM // 07:46

I haven't done HA in ages so I'm not sure if what I say is completely correct.

I don't think that ganking in HoH is that bad. To me, it seems like a viable option and it tests how well the ganked team can cope (assuming I still understand how to HA). In HoH, the blue team starts with an advantage over the other two teams. So isn't it natural for the two disadvantaged teams to aim to bring the advantaged team back down to their level so that it seems like a fairer fight and to do that, they gank? Again, I may not be fully informed on the situation but I'm just speaking from what I remember.

Missing HB · Sep 18, 2010, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth The Xx

Yeah, getting ganked sucks, so do a lot of things, just be cause it sucks doesnt mean it should be in the game. You think the teams who keep constantly getting rolled by a 10-15 holding team like it?

Then , why do people insist on forming " terrible randomways" at dead hour, while they SEE there are 2 10-15 balanced forming? What's the point of playing 2 hours while they know the only thing they can do is win uw against the only other randomway and feed the balanced ( i.e make them have full run or make holding team free wins ) ?

@ Elnino : i understand your point , but problem is there are 3 teams , thus if one team decides to gank blue team for example , the 3rd one will obviously attack blue aswell. Due to joke map objectives , both teams just have to either kill ghost or kill all team ( 16v8 isn't really hard..)

Playing Is Srs Bsns · Sep 18, 2010, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon

Remove HA, it is a grinders heaven anymore and full of broken Meta shitters...that will fix the gankers.

They would shit GvG meta.
Owait....

Fluffy Kittens · Sep 18, 2010, 09:44 AM // 09:44

First I want to make clear that low ranked people have no idea how to play HA, everyone under r11 sux theres no exception. Of course having high rank doesn't mean that you're good but I'm sure that at least 50% of high rank players are good (not counting those who got r9-r12 in 1 month of bbwaying like eB guild).
So problem is those low ranked people who come in HoH and are way too unskilled and dumb to win just gank because they think they're cool. ("first time in hoh yay I'll gank and be cool everyone will see my coolness on observe").
Anyway, all I want is a response: can ganking get you banned? (if on koth full team is attacking only the team whos not holding or on relics they're not running but just blocking 1 team with 8 people).... that should be bannable since it's obvious match manipulation.

Elnino · Sep 18, 2010, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Anyway, all I want is a response: can ganking get you banned? (if on koth full team is attacking only the team whos not holding or on relics they're not running but just blocking 1 team with 8 people).... that should be bannable since it's obvious match manipulation.

I'm pretty sure that it isn't against the rules and I wouldn't say it's match manipulation since the team that gets ganked can easily just wipe the gankers (you know since the gankers are all bad) and continue on their merry way.

Fluffy Kittens · Sep 18, 2010, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

I'm pretty sure that it isn't against the rules and I wouldn't say it's match manipulation since the team that gets ganked can easily just wipe the gankers (you know since the gankers are all bad) and continue on their merry way.

you can't really do that since the 2nd team will go on you aswell when they see you're gettin ganked so you can't do that what you said.

Shayne Hawke · Sep 18, 2010, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Is it just me, or is the term "match manipulation" getting thrown around whenever one person or one group of people in PvP does anything that someone sees as unfair?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Darth_The_Xx: you think holding team likes when they have 10-15 consec and then they get ganked?? It's just killing the game and making lots of ppl quit.

I really can not begin to understand this argument. Do you think anyone likes it when they get ganked? Wouldn't you think that a team that can hold halls for 10-15 consecutives has enough skill that they can fight off the occasional gank? Is it a good idea to set HA to 1v1 so that a last-ditch effort for dropping a team from their throne is no longer an option, and we end up with teams potentially holding halls for half a day at a time?

No, I'm quite okay with there being three teams in the HoH. Ganking is part of the format. It has been ever since its inception. It's been doable on every map with more than one team, and it's not like there's only been one or two of those. The only reason there aren't more of them now is because there aren't enough teams entering to fill all of those maps.

Missing HB · Sep 18, 2010, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I really can not begin to understand this argument. Do you think anyone likes it when they get ganked? Wouldn't you think that a team that can hold halls for 10-15 consecutives has enough skill that they can fight off the occasional gank? Is it a good idea to set HA to 1v1 so that a last-ditch effort for dropping a team from their throne is no longer an option, and we end up with teams potentially holding halls for half a day at a time?

This makes no sense , i am sorry but it looks like too many posters on this thread don't even play HA nowadays , thus don't understand the real problem ...You can't get back from a gank ( except if you have the 5% chance that anti tactic works on one map only..) since it's 16v8 anyway.

Aswell , i said i don't care of in game ganks ( i.e result of tactic , team not resigning , team resigning after x capped , tactic which failed..) but people who gank since the begin of the map . And , for teams who just won hall ( means 1 hold only ) , you think it's fair aswell ...? This should in no way happen and be bannable like rezz anna said.

Sirius Bsns · Sep 18, 2010, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

This makes no sense , i am sorry but it looks like too many posters on this thread don't even play HA nowadays , thus don't understand the real problem ...You can't get back from a gank ( except if you have the 5% chance that anti tactic works on one map only..) since it's 16v8 anyway.

Aswell , i said i don't care of in game ganks ( i.e result of tactic , team not resigning , team resigning after x capped , tactic which failed..) but people who gank since the begin of the map . And , for teams who just won hall ( means 1 hold only ) , you think it's fair aswell ...? This should in no way happen and be bannable like rezz anna said.

It's better to have ganking remain possible than to watch a team in observer mode hold halls for:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

half a day at a time?

The high-ranked elitist teams don't need any more fame anyway. They're r11 and arrogant, and pride deserves to be humbled.

Killed u man · Sep 18, 2010, 09:06 PM // 21:06

People need to stop generalizing the different communities in HA (low-high ranked, experienced-nonexperienced).

Rezz Anna needs to start to understand that not every low ranked person is inexperienced, or bad at this game, and thus ganks in HoH.

And the other people need to understand Rezz Anna does not represent the "high-end" HA scene. Rezz Anna is someone who'se intire fame bar is tied to a single class (assassin), and despite it comming off as a flame I don't mean it that way, doesn't know how HA or PvP in general work.

Ganking in HA is in no way justifiable. If you believe it is, you should litteraly refrain yourself from this thread, the PvP forum, and PvP all-together. A gank is about the most unsportsmanship behaviour a team can bring forward, and reduces a competitive game to a social engeering contest, where whoever has the most friends has the most wins.

And given the nature of HA and it's community, this usually means that german lamewayers will get the most wins, concidering that's the majority of today's HA scene.

As for the actual ganking, is it match manipulation or not? I don't know, but all I know is that Anet banned people for "griefing" before, for example in RA or even in HA with the old shadowformway. I friend of mine got a 3-day ban for "unsportsmanship behaviour in PvP".

I don't really care that much anymore, because HA has become a shitfest where even the forums have been overrun by the people who were concidered terrible 2-3 years ago. But ganking definatly contributed to alot of good people leaving the format. That and the fact that the HoH maps are absolute shit are actually the only 2 reason people left HA by masses.

Sirius Bsns · Sep 18, 2010, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

People need to stop generalizing the different communities in HA (low-high ranked, experienced-nonexperienced).

Rezz Anna needs to start to understand that not every low ranked person is inexperienced, or bad at this game, and thus ganks in HoH.

And the other people need to understand Rezz Anna does not represent the "high-end" HA scene. Rezz Anna is someone who'se intire fame bar is tied to a single class (assassin), and despite it comming off as a flame I don't mean it that way, doesn't know how HA or PvP in general work.

Ganking in HA is in no way justifiable. If you believe it is, you should litteraly refrain yourself from this thread, the PvP forum, and PvP all-together. A gank is about the most unsportsmanship behaviour a team can bring forward, and reduces a competitive game to a social engeering contest, where whoever has the most friends has the most wins.

And given the nature of HA and it's community, this usually means that german lamewayers will get the most wins, concidering that's the majority of today's HA scene.

As for the actual ganking, is it match manipulation or not? I don't know, but all I know is that Anet banned people for "griefing" before, for example in RA or even in HA with the old shadowformway. I friend of mine got a 3-day ban for "unsportsmanship behaviour in PvP".

I don't really care that much anymore, because HA has become a shitfest where even the forums have been overrun by the people who were concidered terrible 2-3 years ago. But ganking definatly contributed to alot of good people leaving the format. That and the fact that the HoH maps are absolute shit are actually the only 2 reason people left HA by masses.

All I'm saying is that "ganking" provides the means for putting high-ranked players in their place. It's part of a natural balance, if you will. For example, if a country powerful enough to rule the world tried taking control of it, other countries would strike allegiance and combine forces to eliminate the higher threat. In Guild Wars, "ganking" is the parallel manifestation of it. Without ganking, the higher ranked teams would always win, raking in fame until they've capped at r15, and then reflecting their triumph, gloating in the most sadistic and demeaning manner possibly imaginable[Anna's posts are a clear demonstration of this].

Killed u man · Sep 19, 2010, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

All I'm saying is that "ganking" provides the means for putting high-ranked players in their place. It's part of a natural balance, if you will. For example, if a country powerful enough to rule the world tried taking control of it, other countries would strike allegiance and combine forces to eliminate the higher threat. In Guild Wars, "ganking" is the parallel manifestation of it. Without ganking, the higher ranked teams would always win, raking in fame until they've capped at r15, and then reflecting their triumph, gloating in the most sadistic and demeaning manner possibly imaginable[Anna's posts are a clear demonstration of this].

Your analogy once again doesn't make sense. You're trying to justify the gank by stating lower-rank players have a direct severe negative consequence when higher-ranked people win. which is not the case.

If you can't see the simply truth of: "The best team deserves to win", you shouldn't be playing PvP in the first place. The fact that "higher ranked teams" always would win without ganks is the very base of competitive PvP.

Your mindset is what ruined Guild Wars, because it's the same mindset Anet took on after Factions release. That mindset being that terrible players should be able to beat good players.

There's 2 kinds of fair:

The first one is that everyone wins equally, regardless of their skill. This is fair on a very basic level, because everyone gets to win. Yet, at the same time, the better people don't get any benefit from being better than the worst people, and thus this system will only result in the better people leaving or stop trying. (Aka, shitwaying themselves)

The second one is what Guild Wars is/should have been, being that your win/loss ratio increases exponantially with your skills as a player. Despite the fact that not everyone gets to win, the system still is fair, because if you deserve to win, you'll win. The fact that bad people don't ever win only means one thing: these people need to improve at the game.

Ganking is in no way justified by the fact that bad players loose to good players. Bad players should loose to good players. This is the basic essence of EVERY game.

Del · Sep 19, 2010, 02:49 AM // 02:49

I don't mind ganking/getting ganked tbh. back when i found it worthwhile to bother doing tombs, me and my friends only ever ganked douchebags. and generally, not talking shit and having a decent attitude makes you less of a target for it.