Curse

Skye Marin · Oct 05, 2010, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Think about it, and then ask yourself this:
If both teams in every match-up had either one monk per team, or no monk at all, each team would have an equal chance at winning the match every single time by default [this variable would depend on each individual player's build, and how well they play it]. Would players have any reason whatsoever to leave prematurely if this were true?

The answer: they wouldn't! By default, teams would have an equal chance, thus providing the reason to stay and play for at least that match.

The flaw here is that monk doesn't always equal healer, and healer doesn't always equal monk. A lot of my best streaks included a secondary healer or strong party support. Profession and skill-type restrictions outside of Codex are clumsy and a very slippery slope. I feel that if your suggestion was implemented, people would still complain, and we'd be stuck with it forever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

What RA could might use is some sort of tiebreaker, or scoring system that might allow a truly "random team"(4 healers, 4 melee ect) to actually win, they could put some other goals in there with minimal modifications to existing maps, and annihilation matches should be far, far shorter(with some sort of goal or objective to allow defense teams to do damage, like with the flag stands, but ramped way up).

If we learned anything from HB, it's that point control just doesn't work. Players would be even more inclined to use progressively defensive builds, shadowsteps, and snares to hold capture points. I agree that it's no fun to lose because you don't have a healer, but it's even less fun to lose because the other team has absolutely impenetrable defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

Maybe they could implement some sort of "holding area" for teams before they actually start fighting, like they have in HA with the zaishen fight and vault, let people see whats up before a real fight, let them rage there without penalties. I dunno but giving people less of a reason to rage seems like a good idea.

While I really like the idea, it would bring back all the issues that caused Dishonorable to be introduced in the first placed. Leavers would be even worse because the player population has (most likely) reduced since then, causing more people wanting to work on their title. Basically, the easiest entry-level PvP would become that less approachable because fewer full teams will be able to enter the arena instantly. That's what makes RA, RA. It's popular because there is nothing stopping you from entering with what you want, for better or worse. If suddenly you're being judged by your peers, then there is less game and more waiting around and bad feelings and frustration.

So to sum up, if someone doesn't want to play in RA because it is RA, then that is their own problem.

Reverend Dr · Oct 05, 2010, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Yes they would. They would see "OMG we have an Elementalist with no secondary profession he must be n00b why did anet remove dishonour i need to report him leeching so i don't keep getting him on my team wtf i'm leaving". Or "we have 3 warriors in this team wtf is with anet's random number generator i'm leaving have fun playing 3v4". Or how about "hey guys im joining teams to leave them, just griefing here, hahaha TROLLED!!! ur angry? guild wars is srs bsns!!!"

... yeah. Thank ANet for dishonour.

You see before gladiator title was put in, people played this arena just for those matchups.

The reason that leechers/leavers/syncers became so predominant that the /report system was needed as a band-aid fix was because the wrong type of people started playing this arena.

Sirius Bsns · Oct 05, 2010, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

You see before gladiator title was put in, people played this arena just for those matchups.

The reason that leechers/leavers/syncers became so predominant that the /report system was needed as a band-aid fix was because the wrong type of people started playing this arena.

You don't seem to understand the reason behind the Gladiator title, Reverend Dr. The Gladiator title was added to give players a valid reason to continue playing in RA. Without it, the arena wouldn't be anywhere near as active as it is now. The Gladiator title is the element that keeps players playing because they have something to strive for.

On Topic: The Dishonor System is a tool that players often use to channel their spite towards other players, and nothing more. They'll often label it with "leeching" simply because it's one of the selections most popular and effective at forcing players to incur dishonor points, thus reducing their playing freedom. The reason a lot of players rage, suicide, etc. during games is because monks are the ones that enable teams to win the most and go on streaks. Without monks, players usually know that it's a waste of time even trying. Thus, reporting these players for having some common freaking sense is just plain wrong in my book, and the players issuing these reports either lack common sense, or act out of sheer spite.

Jeydra · Oct 06, 2010, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

You see before gladiator title was put in, people played this arena just for those matchups.

The reason that leechers/leavers/syncers became so predominant that the /report system was needed as a band-aid fix was because the wrong type of people started playing this arena.

I kinda think that before gladiator title was implemented, people played RA because of Balthazar faction, and before there was Balthazar faction there were so many players in Guild Wars you could PuG almost anything you want, so naturally there were people trying out this arena in a new game.

Also before there was gladiator title and Balthazar faction there were people who ran 8 defensive skills and hope to tank the entire enemy team ad infinitum, good grief. I even remember one match where we faced one such player, my teammate clicked autoattack and went AFK (rest of us got bored soon) and two hours later the other guy finally left because he couldn't heal while AFK.

I highly doubt removing the gladiator title is going to help, in fact it will kill RA even more. How many people do you know that continue to AB after maxing their Kurz / Lux title? Sure, there are some. Are there many? Do they play often? What about JQ and FA? I earned most of my Kurzick faction from JQ, but since I maxed the title, I've not stepped into JQ at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

On Topic: The Dishonor System is a tool that players often use to channel their spite towards other players, and nothing more. They'll often label it with "leeching" simply because it's one of the selections most popular and effective at forcing players to incur dishonor points, thus reducing their playing freedom. The reason a lot of players rage, suicide, etc. during games is because monks are the ones that enable teams to win the most and go on streaks. Without monks, players usually know that it's a waste of time even trying. Thus, reporting these players for having some common freaking sense is just plain wrong in my book, and the players issuing these reports either lack common sense, or act out of sheer spite.

It's common freaking sense that ruining a game for 7 other players just because you want a Monk in your team is wrong. Players who rage, suicide etc. during games either lack common sense, or act out of sheer spite. Thus, reporting these players for not having some common freaking sense is plain right in my book, and systems should be in place to stop them from doing so.

Said this before, will say this again. If you choose to act like an asshole, don't complain when the anti-asshole systems penalize you.

Sirius Bsns · Oct 06, 2010, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I kinda think that before gladiator title was implemented, people played RA because of Balthazar faction, and before there was Balthazar faction there were so many players in Guild Wars you could PuG almost anything you want, so naturally there were people trying out this arena in a new game.

Also before there was gladiator title and Balthazar faction there were people who ran 8 defensive skills and hope to tank the entire enemy team ad infinitum, good grief. I even remember one match where we faced one such player, my teammate clicked autoattack and went AFK (rest of us got bored soon) and two hours later the other guy finally left because he couldn't heal while AFK.

I highly doubt removing the gladiator title is going to help, in fact it will kill RA even more. How many people do you know that continue to AB after maxing their Kurz / Lux title? Sure, there are some. Are there many? Do they play often? What about JQ and FA? I earned most of my Kurzick faction from JQ, but since I maxed the title, I've not stepped into JQ at all.

It's common freaking sense that ruining a game for 7 other players just because you want a Monk in your team is wrong. Players who rage, suicide etc. during games either lack common sense, or act out of sheer spite. Thus, reporting these players for not having some common freaking sense is plain right in my book, and systems should be in place to stop them from doing so.

Said this before, will say this again. If you choose to act like an asshole, don't complain when the anti-asshole systems penalize you.

Have fun reporting players to death then, until the entire arena's empty and you're standing there with your thumb up your --- wondering where everybody went [//////////////report-banned!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

Jeydra · Oct 06, 2010, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Much better than tabbing out after hitting the enter button, then coming back to Guild Wars before match starts and standing there with my thumb up my --- and wondering where my entire team went.

Sirius Bsns · Oct 06, 2010, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Much better than tabbing out after hitting the enter button, then coming back to Guild Wars before match starts and standing there with my thumb up my --- and wondering where my entire team went.

One simple solution can appease both parties:

MONK BALANCE.

With both teams forced to have a monk, and only one monk, there'd be a reason to play the match all the way through. But as is stands, monk teams will win the majority of times, and the non-monk teams will almost always [ab]use /report-->"leeching", ragequit, go afk while the rest hack-n-slash til they die/drop, rush in and commit suicide, etc.

GWfan#1 · Oct 06, 2010, 05:19 AM // 05:19

If anything I think Dishonor penalties should be stronger tbh.

Reverend Dr · Oct 06, 2010, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

You don't seem to understand the reason behind the Gladiator title, Reverend Dr.

:words:

I'm pretty sure you are the one that doesn't understand the reason behind that title. The reason is that someone over in Anet development said "Hey I got an idea!"

That's it. End of story.

If the only reason to play RA is points on a title then remove RA and replace it with a format that has a chance to give you +1's on that title when you hit "enter mission" That title, and every pvp title, have done far more to hurt that format than they would have to help it. If the game is only being played by people wanting +1's on a title, then pull the servers, because no one is enjoying the game.

If the title is the only thing keeping the arena around, then the arena does not deserve to stay.

HawkofStorms · Oct 06, 2010, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Once upon a time, Guild Wars had no titles. At all. For a whole year. And people still played RA. And they had fun.

Missing HB · Oct 06, 2010, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Yes , so were all pvp arenas , but with time and crap updates due to lazyness, all became worse and empty like now .
Aswell , i do believe all PvP arenas still do have some people because they either want to farm a quest , either do the title( want for proof those r12 teams which play HA dead hour every morning .. ) . Hero Battles and GvG are/were the only places where there are some players who do play for fun , and those are ones who play tournaments especially...

Anyway , back to the topic , as i said , removing dishonor won't do anything good , since it will promote syncing easily ," finding THE team" , and etc.. .There clearly won't be anymore a team with 4 melee or so ...

Lanier · Oct 06, 2010, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWfan#1

If anything I think Dishonor penalties should be stronger tbh.

I 100% agree. Anyone who leaves a group because there is a paragon in the party or because there is no monk just so they can get another group quicker should be stricly penalized. Seriously, just play the match out, try your best, and don't complain because people who bitch in RA about their team composition look like idiots.

Sirius Bsns · Oct 07, 2010, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Just "playing it out" is the same as going into war against a team that's using lasers and forcefields, and all you have is a feather pillow and a phone to call 9-1-1 with. It's a waste of time.

Reverend Dr · Oct 07, 2010, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Once upon a time, Guild Wars had no titles. At all. For a whole year. And people still played RA. And they had fun.

What are you talking about, you can't possibly have fun playing a game unless it keeps giving you some sort of arbitrary point for 'winning'.

Skye Marin · Oct 07, 2010, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Once upon a time, Guild Wars had no titles. At all. For a whole year. And people still played RA. And they had fun.

There were still problems. Leavers, syncers, griefers. Remember facing 55 monks in RA? That happened, a whole lot. Same with 30 minute matches, and gaining only 2 Balthazar faction per kill.

RA now is better than RA then. It's not going back.

Reverend Dr · Oct 07, 2010, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Balth faction is definitely related to adding title tracts. Did you know that people used to enjoy RA before there was Balth faction? That's kind of our point, people should enjoy it for the format, not for the rewards.

Everything else you said is just wrong. Leavers and syncers were never noticeable before glad title was added. Modern post /report RA still has more leavers and syncers than the old RA. Griefers are always going to be around, but likewise there are more now than before. And anyway did you actually have trouble with 55 monks?

Luminarus · Oct 08, 2010, 12:04 AM // 00:04

At the time when people enjoyed it for the game it was, there werent so many builds that could almost singlehandedly put out enough DPS to outpressure woh.

At that time whilst self heals werent enough to keep you alive indefinately they had enough to allow you to keep going a bit further. In the days of assassins, dervishes, e-surge mesmers etc which can do 100 damage in 1-2 seconds, self heals are obsolete as you stand there for 2 seconds to use your heal sig, 3 seconds for your troll unguent, watever, and if you were actually taking damage the heal you got from your it is already out damaged.

EDIT: The only 2 self heals I see in RA that were available pre balth faction and glad title are Ether Feast and Aura of Restoration. Ether Feast because its a quick cast with atleast some pressureing effect (e-denial), and Aura is used more as an attunement then a self heal. /EDIT

THAT is why Monks are so required now (and by monks I mean off character healing), because everythings gonna die so quick if theres no monk. If its both teams no monks, then fine its whichever teams got the more damage and sure there are certain matches where the monk on the other team is terrible, or you have enough damage to just quickly roll them.

However, on the whole in a monk vs non monk team the monk will give his team the TIME to get the kills in on the other team, you gain more raw damage due to this time in general then you would gain from a 4th offensive character.

Now, if you removed dishonor and/or /report from RA people are gonna leave until they get a monk. Then the monks gonna leave coz his team didnt have a ranger/necro/mesmer or watever that they consider designs a perfect team, or because the ele has no secondary etc.

If you remove glad title from the arena, either the arena will die because the one draw left there (since lets be honest the balth faction gain is crap, and the arena isnt that entertaining an arena) OR people will do the same thing, because they find it boring being in a team that will only win one or 2 matches before losing. I for one understand this, as winning one or two matches isnt as fun as going on a 10-25 win streak with a team that you get to know.

Skye Marin · Oct 08, 2010, 02:53 AM // 02:53

To address the OP again:

If dishonor was removed from RA, all the old issues would return, including but not limited to leavers and griefers, which would sincerely encroach on my enjoyment of the game.

If you don't care about me, I don't care about you. Luckily, dishonor is here and likely not going anywhere.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 08, 2010, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

If dishonor was removed from RA, all the old issues would return, including but not limited to leavers and griefers, which would sincerely encroach on my enjoyment of the game.

If you don't care about me, I don't care about you. Luckily, dishonor is here and likely not going anywhere.

Well the dishonor system is encroaching on MY enjoyment of the game. I never had a problem with these so-called leavers. I never had any problems with griefers either as I could freely map out, doing so now punishes me.

And yes, I don't care about you so you don't have to feel sorry for me either. It's because of whiny carebears like yourself the wonderful dishonor system was implemented. I can't stand RA as it is now, it's a steaming cesspool of rude, elitist(not to be confused with skilled) and obnoxious players.

Yup, dishonor is likely not going anywhere so you enjoy yourself in RA. I'll stick to other formats.

Shayne Hawke · Oct 08, 2010, 04:25 AM // 04:25

I'm done trying to clean up this thread. Let's try again some time in the future.

Closed.