Curse

X Nightwalker X · Oct 26, 2010, 05:16 PM // 17:16

So, I feel Shadowstepping has lost its usefulness. The after-cast delay is very much a nuisance when shadowstepping. However I feel a large part of the problem with shadowsteps now lies with the insane recharges that most shadowsteps have.

With this I am referring to many of the shadowsteps that target foes. For example Death's Charge has a recharge of 30 seconds. In fact, most of the unconditional (by unconditional I mean they don't 'triggers' like Scorpion Wire' and 'Augury of Death') shadowsteps have no less than a 20 second recharge.

Now I can understand this recharge in PvP. So many people would complain if they were generally shorter. But in PvE I don't see a problem with such a short recharge. It would make shadowstepping a lot more viable. Sure some other changes would have to be made. Again, for example deaths's charge healing could be lowered a bit.

However this is just my take on shadowstepping. I'd just like to know everyone elses views on this. I may have missed some stuff out as well.

Warvic · Oct 26, 2010, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Yeh i agree with you. The recharges have always bothered me. To bad, because i really love the concept of shadow-stepping, but right now it's just not worth it to use a shadowstep skill.

I'm not that annoyed by the after cast tho.

Sirius Bsns · Oct 26, 2010, 05:57 PM // 17:57

I think shadow stepping should be reinstated for assassin primaries and denied for all other secondaries by adding a 5 or < Critical Strikes = failure clause to them. Assassins are supposed to be assassins, and I think they're all too easily stopped anyway [see Shield Bash, Diversion, any form of Block or well-placed Blind, etc.]. So it'd only be fair if they at least removed after-cast delays from the elite shadow steps [see Shadow Prison, Wastrel's Collapse, Aura of Displacement, etc.]. I also think that Black Lotus Strike and Black Spider Strike should be reverted to their original configurations [lead-->offhand attack, 10-->5e, etc.].

X Nightwalker X · Oct 26, 2010, 06:09 PM // 18:09

I can see why Arenanet implemented the after-cast delay. Like I said it's a nuisance but I'm not outright against it. I do agree with Sirius Bsns though with removing aftercast from the elite shadowsteps.

Aeon221 · Oct 26, 2010, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Considering how horrifying the effects of shadowstep were in PVP, it's understandable that it was nerfedbatted out into left field. I mean, come on, who doesn't remember AoD without a little shudder of hate?

For PVE, it's a double edged knifey thing. It's fun to play with, but it's way less fun to have used on you.

Balance wise, I could see the PVE recharge being lowered on a couple of the unconditional ones if they also caused cracked armor or something on the user. That'd be fair -- you can warp around like an irritating twit, but you'd better be ready to warp the heck out if something starts laying down a beating.

Compared to the side effects of stuff like Frenzy and Aggressive Refrain, I feel that's a damn good deal.

Ugh · Oct 26, 2010, 06:34 PM // 18:34

A cheap, easily interuptible shadowstep with a one second cast time and a 12-15ish second recharge might be able to exist in PvP without being useless or breaking it. Not giving the opponent a chance to be proactive is the main problem with current shadowsteps, and this would give a little window of time to prot or interrupt. The easy-interuptability (?) would force the assassin to be somewhat sneaky/tactical and prevent him or her from popping out of danger so easily.

As for PvE, sure, whatever. I would like if they changed critical agility to some sort of PvE shadowstep, so I could play like an assassin in PvE instead of a warrior, but I doubt anyone else would go for it. Something ridiculously cheap with a short cast time, no aftercast, recharge on next critical hit, and some sort of healing effect would be fun.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horace Slughorn

Also ebon escape says hi.

That only works on allies.

Horace Slughorn · Oct 26, 2010, 06:35 PM // 18:35

They only do PvP/PvE splits if it's really important. I don't think the ability to shadow step more often in PvE is of significant enough importance to merit a split.

Also ebon escape says hi.

RedDog91 · Oct 26, 2010, 07:27 PM // 19:27

My plan for shadow stepping is that you can only shadow step when the caster and the target have connecting shadows.

So it can be as short as 2 feet in bright areas where the sun is almost right over head or as long as 100 feet in the Echovald Forest where little light cuts through the trees.

Makes more sense than just teleporting 30 feet whenever you feel like it.

MithranArkanere · Oct 26, 2010, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Shadowstepping was not really a bad idea, if they were 'proper' ones. Like the GW2 rushes we saw with rangers and warriors.

But they probably couldn't make that kind of animations due to ping, lack of Z-axis and bodyblocking, so they changed it to an 'instant' semi-teleport.

I wouldn't remove it, but I'd make critical strikes affect the longest distance you can shadow-step.
Without Critical Strikes, you shouldn't be able to shadow step farther than nearby, and increase to Spell range when critical strikes are 13 or more.
That includes that 'no target' one that make you shadow step away from target.

jackinthe · Oct 27, 2010, 12:01 AM // 00:01

people only use shadowsteps in pve for running and speeding up speed clears now anyways.

chuckles79 · Oct 27, 2010, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I agree with the idea because for too long assassins have been anything but.
The whole idea was; rush in, kill a single target quickly, and get out quickly because you are squishy.

Now we have all-sin team SCs, perma-form tanks, and basically everything BUT get in, kill, and get out builds.

I guess this is going to be a moot point in GW2 since multi-role ability is supposed to be built into every class.

However I would like Anet to finish off GW1's final year(s) with a coherent vision on the roles of each profession.

reaper with no name · Oct 27, 2010, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Shadowsteps have always been a bad mechanic.

In PvE, what do Shadowsteps do? They allow you to get to a mob before your party does, most likely getting you killed.

in PvP, they allow you to completely ignore positioning (ie, nullify an aspect of skilled gameplay).

Neither of these things should be encouraged.

Painbringer · Oct 27, 2010, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Shadowsteps have always been a bad mechanic.

In PvE, what do Shadowsteps do? They allow you to get to a mob before your party does, most likely getting you killed.

in PvP, they allow you to completely ignore positioning (ie, nullify an aspect of skilled gameplay).

Neither of these things should be encouraged.

Shadow steps In PVE allow you to step in to a mob pre-proted. You basically can decimate a group. You lock the groups agro on you and your group can annihilate them in seconds. Add a skill called Unseen fury and you are unblockable and almost unhittable by melee.

In PVP it adds the element of surprise. Granted I understand the sin combos have been screwed a bit rendering it a little less deadly. But on the other hand it is handy to help kill with a warrior. Example in FA. I can chop on the NPC load up on adrenaline and wait for a target call on monk. They usually are wasting there energy on the NPC and do not expect an attack. Since the are at range they think the are somewhat safe. So it’s a quick “T” and shadow step 123 skill the monk is dead.

drkn · Oct 27, 2010, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Shadow steps In PVE allow you to step in to a mob pre-proted. You basically can decimate a group. You lock the groups agro on you and your group can annihilate them in seconds. Add a skill called Unseen fury and you are unblockable and almost unhittable by melee.

Wow. Balanced.

Sirius Bsns · Oct 28, 2010, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Shadowsteps have always been a bad mechanic.

In PvE, what do Shadowsteps do? They allow you to get to a mob before your party does, most likely getting you killed.

in PvP, they allow you to completely ignore positioning (ie, nullify an aspect of skilled gameplay).

Neither of these things should be encouraged.

Nullifying positioning isn't necessarily OP'd [for assassin primaries] because comes with a price. Prime Example: 70AL with a fully offensive build plus [insert any viable form of anti-melee, which for assassins equates to that of a "wrench between two gears"] spells disaster for any assassin amidst a PvP mob attempting to spike. On the other side of the coin however, it puts even the most pro infuser monks to the test! I think there's a perfect offset here. So how does shadow-stepping go beyond this trade-off? What do you see that we might not?

tealspikes · Oct 28, 2010, 06:43 AM // 06:43

In organized pvp being able to surprise your enemies and ignore positioning far outweighs the trade-off of momentarily putting yourself in danger. 'Putting pro infusers to the test' does not justfify a mechanic when it impacts the game negatively in several other places - there are plenty of stupid overpowered things they could introduce that would put monks to the test. In guild wars, I don't think teleportation requires smart play from both sides, only reflexive play from one side.

Missing HB · Oct 28, 2010, 06:51 AM // 06:51

No , Shadowstepping skills were fixed in Hero battles long time ago because it didn't allow players to react enough fast to preprot/heal x hero which was spiked. It got aswell fixed because of some modes such as relic running , where you could still make guy stuck after catching him....
Then i remember they added an aftercast on Ride The Lightning because 2 guys were running some Overpowered El/W sword with bulls , sever artery, etc... ( i can remember of top40 Hber running it and a GvG team too )

However yes , i don't really know if it was THAT overpowered compared to some other things ...

Morphy · Oct 28, 2010, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Nullifying positioning isn't necessarily OP'd [for assassin primaries]

That's not his complaint, read. He points out that shadow steps reduce skillful play in the game. The term overpowered is a meaningless one anyway so I don't understand why you brought it up.