Curse

a-kyle · Nov 03, 2010, 03:12 PM // 15:12

7 hero's in my mind is both exciting and infuriating. I think the game is meant to be done with people, maybe not in such a way that it becomes the next wow, but in such a way where it provides a engaging social interaction between groups of people in other countries, time zones and cities.

By allowing us to have 7 hero's we are able to solo dungeons, instances and other places we would require a party for, BUT hero's don't always use the skills we give them. For example there is a Mesmer skill that takes a certain amount of the casters health and does damage, if you have a Mesmer team that has a high DP they will literally cast them selves to death thus rendering the part useless. - obviously you would have a back up plan.... -

Another issue is that hero's are not the smartest people, for a reason, monks will prioritize the healing and resurrection, in some cases this makes me mad, i have been dead in some instances for 5 minutes, while the party is full of health and being kept alive - this leads into my next statement -

You might be thinking, Well why don't you learn to micromanage. That's another problem, Micromanaging 3 hero's and your self, isn't as hard as some newbs or people make it out to be, but try doing that for 7 hero's plus your self....you'll find your in a rut faster then you can say banana cream pit 60 times faster then a horse race. - high five for the analogy -

Whats even worse? - This was mentioned before hand - heros were made stupid for a reason, they will have to have their AI buffed up to make them a bit more smarter especially if we plan to cut down on micro managing when it come to 7 heros.

Now those who play games like civilization are good at micromanaging, and 7 hero will be nothing, but wait till your argued by death, or even fighting dhum...

there is positives, thus making the title of this thread useless and rude. such that the loners of the game that bitch when they have to team up to do a mission wont have to worry.

the term soloing will beat out even WOW's term of soloing.

in the end, I think in my mind, we should stay with 3 hero's, 4 henchmen and 1 human because its more balanced. that wasn't even the main issue i wanted to get to, which was serious balancing. with 7 hero's people will find more and more balancing issues - which may make Anet push updates faster - which i doubt it.

if this is all a "well its for gw2" thing then Anet needs to SERIOUSLY rethink this...

thoughts?
opinions?

Cool Name · Nov 03, 2010, 03:23 PM // 15:23

I'm a bit lost, you seem to be arguing for both sides.. You say we should stick with the way it is now, which means people will still have to group together for elite areas. But you also say if they give you 7 heroes then they should buff up the AI.. but those things seem to contradict each other.

Also, I may be wrong, but I don't think micro managing would be as necessary as you think. If you give your heroes the right skills, that they know how to use properly, then you shouldn't really have to micro manage. Yes, it means you can't completely replace people with heroes, and use the same builds, but I don't see why they should make that possible.

Anet are doing this (in my opinion) so that when GW2 comes out and GW numbers dwindle, people will still be able to do the harder areas. It may lead to balance issues, and skill updates, but this has been the case in GW for years, hasn't it?

LordDragon · Nov 03, 2010, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by a-kyle

thoughts?
opinions?

Thoughts? Well, my thought is that this has been beat to death in at least 3 other threads and you should have made your argument in one of them.

Opinions? I think you are way off base and you can go read the other threads to find out why.

fowlero · Nov 03, 2010, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Nothing you said represents a problem to me.

There will always be AI issues, if that's what you mean by balance issues. But there's good knowledge of what does work, so you make it work best you can.

Kwith · Nov 03, 2010, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Its been my experience that Heroes are FAR superior to pugs.

Two examples of why:
1. Brought a mesmer with us during Abbadon's Mouth. 5 minutes into the mission, she was a Me/W. Whatever, I'm all for people experiementing. We then find out that the /W means "I'm a tank!" Not W/Me, Me/W! No defensive skills, just attacks and a res. And by "I'm a tank" I mean "I'm going to aggro EVERYTHING I CAN SEE". Fortunately I was with guildies as well and the monk was awesome enough to keep everyone alive, including our mesmer tank.

2. Doing The Wilds mission, have an ele pug with us. Did you know, that to be an effective tank for an ele ONLY requires bringing Ward against Melee? I didn;t know this. All that needs to be done is run to the middle of a giant mob, hit WoM and stand there. GENIUS!

So do I want 7 heroes? Darn right, because I hate pugs, and I hate henchmen.

Star_Jewel · Nov 03, 2010, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by a-kyle

monks will prioritize the healing and resurrection, in some cases this makes me mad, i have been dead in some instances for 5 minutes, while the party is full of health and being kept alive

I hope this is just an exaggeration for effect, otherwise I think you're doing something wrong.

chullster · Nov 03, 2010, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by a-kyle

Another issue is that hero's are not the smartest people, for a reason, monks will prioritize the healing......

Err why are you using hero monks for healing? have you not noticed something either in game or these forums? Hero monks for RoJ/smite, other professions for heals/prot whatever.

Take a well worn leaf out of RAs book(Crazy I know); don't put a rez skill on healers.

Why are you microing anything with your heros? They're plenty of ways to set them up so you don't need their skill bar open, ever.

You mentioned dhumm/uw, I've done that with heroes and 2 human players, nm and hm, no micro was needed then either, other than to flag a hero for a certain quest a little further away from the rest of the party.

gremlin · Nov 03, 2010, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Yes the game was meant to be played with other people that is how it was designed.
However it was according to many designed around pvp so there isn't any real reason why the pve part of the game shouldn't give you the option to use people or AI assistance.

The problem with this sort of game is no matter how large your guild or how many friends you have playing this game often you cannot get people to play a particular mission.

I have been playing since just after the game came out and there has always been a lot of time spent trying to get a party together for missions, and that was before all the argument about having the correct build.

Its not that you cannot get a party together but you do tend to get players leaving just when you get near a full party or leaving mid mission, it was often a frustrating experience and you were lucky to get one or two missions in an evenings play.

PVP is fine because players are repeating the same areas over and over so players are nearly always available.

Bring out 7 heroes let the players who pay the money decide how they wish to play the game.
We need to do this to decide once and for all if its a good idea or if it destroys the game.

As for Micromanaging yes it would be a mad experience micromanaging 7 heroes but mostly you are micromanaging one or maybe two heroes.
As for Res skills I usually turn them off till needed.

jazilla · Nov 03, 2010, 03:50 PM // 15:50

@a-kyle: I think you are missing the far-reaching point of 7 heroes: Life in GW1 AFTER GW2 comes out. There will be people that have never played GW1 that will find GW2 fantastic and they will pick up GW1 to earn a few HoM points here and there. With a diminished player base, it would be next to impossible for a brand new GW1 player to do any of that without 7 heroes. It would also make it really nice for people trying to get Titles 25-30 etc. once GW2 comes out if they want to because GWAMM is wearable in GW2 and people care about that type of thing.

I think people miss that GW2 is really the point of 7 heroes.

Skyy High · Nov 03, 2010, 03:51 PM // 15:51

I can't make heads or tails of what the OP is saying.

Xenomortis · Nov 03, 2010, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by a-kyle

By allowing us to have 7 hero's we are able to solo dungeons, instances and other places we would require a party for, BUT hero's don't always use the skills we give them. For example there is a Mesmer skill that takes a certain amount of the casters health and does damage, if you have a Mesmer team that has a high DP they will literally cast them selves to death thus rendering the part useless. - obviously you would have a back up plan....

1.
7 Heroes allows you to enter the UW, FoW and DoA with a full team but only one human. Dungeons, explorables, etc could always be done with H/H - the exception is Battle for Lion's Arch HM (don't know anybody who's done that H/H).

2.
If your heroes aren't behaving properly, alter their builds. Disable res skills on monk heroes if you find they're using them when you don't want to. Don't give them skills that they can't use.

3.
You don't need to micromanage well to succeed. I can H/H Slaver's Exile HM with very little micro (I flag heroes apart and sometimes force my MM to use Prot Spirit). I can't micro henchmen at all (other than plant their flag) - allowing me to micro their skills or individual placements isn't suddenly going to lower my performance.

I really don't get your complaint. Are you saying 7 heroes will make solo play too easy? Are saying 7 heroes won't make solo play any easier or easy enough? Or are you saying that it would promote it too much?
If it's the first, then I'm inclined to agree.
If it's the second, you're complaint is laughable.
If it's the third, then I disagree. Poor players will still fail for the same reasons they fail now - poor henchmen isn't the reason why people suck. Those poor players are the same players who try to form random pick up groups most of the time.

Tharg · Nov 03, 2010, 04:25 PM // 16:25

if you want > 3 heroes, get a second account and use KMod or something like that. Problem solved!

Xenomortis · Nov 03, 2010, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tharg

if you want > 3 heroes, get a second account and use KMod or something like that. Problem solved!

Oh yes, because throwing cash at something to make up for your shortcomings is always advisable...

Gennadios · Nov 03, 2010, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Learn to use your heroes. If a skill isn't behaving properly, remove it.

Everything outside of the Deep/Urgoz/DoA/UW can be completed hero/hench.

FoW is so pathetic that a 3 hero party can get it done.

Arduin · Nov 03, 2010, 04:29 PM // 16:29

I *think* a-kyle is saying that there will be lots of balancing issues to solve when Anet introduces the 7-heroes concept....

Rumi The Poet · Nov 03, 2010, 04:33 PM // 16:33

ive been gaming for over 25 years and the idea of gamers being a social animal is

relatively new to me. dont force people to interact with each other especially when

most pugs just go stupid and fail. i for one think its a great idea to add more heros to

the party. maybe im in the minority but id bet 100ecto to your 1ecto that if

it was put to a vote the majority of gw players would like the idea of a 7 hero party.

Xenomortis · Nov 03, 2010, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumi The Poet

it was put to a vote the majority of gw players would like the idea of a 7 hero party.

This isn't a good arguing position.

Missing HB · Nov 03, 2010, 04:50 PM // 16:50

To answer the thread title : yes. Reasons : henchmen contest , introduction of CA , some illogical updates , not doing anything in PvP. And they will be even more if they add 7 heroes allowed in PvE only ( anyone who plays HA these days knows what i mean....)

Bellatrixa · Nov 03, 2010, 05:03 PM // 17:03

I read the first paragraph and I think that was enough.

Guild Wars = 5 year old game with a smaller player base than before. Out of that smaller player base = less competent people for PuGs. Smaller player base = quieter guilds. Smaller player base = less people in outposts/mission areas. The chances of finding enough people all wanting to do the same thing when it's not an event/zbounty is tough, least in the EU districts. I welcome the idea of a 7 hero party for this reason.

Gift3d · Nov 03, 2010, 05:04 PM // 17:04

if people really wanted to play with other people, they would
i mean, even though we're being given no other choice and being forced to play with 7 heroes OH WAIT HAHAHA LOOK WE'RE NOT! shiiiiiiiiitt, had me fooled bro!