Curse

jazilla · Oct 22, 2010, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

To reach 50/50 should be accesible to anyone and not everyone has the time or the the friends to sync Random arena to get a titel that was easy earned by the the ppl like you that earned it when team arena was available. Because you can not tell me you earned it recently by playing in random arena where a 5 win streak is like a 6er in the lottery...every single win should go towards a titel and winning streaks should be rewarded with bonus points to make it accecible to anyone.

When you get 50/50 it says, "Seriously, you crazy!". The meaning of that is not everyone will get 50/50. I'm not going to discuss it with you though as you keep avoiding what I am saying and trying to twist it into something else.

Pritst Of Death · Oct 22, 2010, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

I did more than enough PvP as i have earned a total of 3.181.995 Balthasar factions that alone gives me 636 Zaichen keys, enough to make my Zaichen titel a PvP earned titel. My 2 main PvP characters earned both 2 x 1.100.000 xp points in more than 1800 hours. I have done every single PvP that exists in game but i never had the right guild to earn champion points although i won and lost alot of GvG at one point, if a guild is not rated you get no titel...I did random arena well befor the gladiator title was invented and i can show you plenty of flawless and over 10 wins streaks , that was the time when PvP was fun and not a title grind ... maybe if they made the zaishen titel liked to the baltasar factions earned instead of making the z-keys sellable it would be recognized as a PvP titel by all, but then you would start QQ, ing that you can't make money of selling the z-keys.

you know about the zashian elite zashian challange you gain balth faction from both those and there not pvp your fighting ncps

prinzess of life · Oct 22, 2010, 06:16 PM // 18:16

@ redstar , you don't like elite areas ? Then don't do them you dont need to do them to get 50/50, there are 47 non PvP statues available including the Zaishen one, ther's only 6 elite statues + LDoA (which nobody realy wants to do, not even PvEers...) So what it boils down to is that PvPers want to force everyone to do something they dont want and accept it that they dont need to do everything to get max reward, isn't that very strange. I don't want to spend the rest of my time in GW1 doing random arena's i rather enjoy playing the game after i did all that was needed to get 50/50.

Let me throw something else into this discussion, what if a powertrader says i worked so hard getting this panda why does a panda only count as one rare mini. All you need there is 1 rare 1 unique and 48 white ones to get 8/8. The resilience monument is the same, all you need there is obsidian, vabbi, kurzick and 4 other elite sets, if someone has all 20 diffrent armors plus every elite armor for every profession does he not diserve a better reward ?

My point is , if A-net wanted 50/50 only for people who maxed everything then there would be not many people who get it, so why are you insisting on a PvP titel while everything else that you didn't get doesn't count , just because you have it already ? Well i have 25 diffrent elite armors do i get anything better than you ? NO i just get 8/8 . Someone who did LDoA , does he get anything better than you ? NO the list goes on and on these are all things someone could claim , i know a person who has 85 diffrent minipets in her hall , you think she gets a better reward ?

prinzess of life · Oct 22, 2010, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

When you get 50/50 it says, "Seriously, you crazy!". The meaning of that is not everyone will get 50/50. I'm not going to discuss it with you though as you keep avoiding what I am saying and trying to twist it into something else.

my calculator says:
"M-M-M-M-M-MONSTER KILL!
Seriously, you crazy.

does that not refer to PvE , which means you killed alot of monsters..?

Del · Oct 22, 2010, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

my calculator says:
"M-M-M-M-M-MONSTER KILL!
Seriously, you crazy.

does that not refer to PvE , which means you killed alot of monsters..?

Nope.jpg google it. Also, the phrase monster kill, and the fact that you kill monsters is completely irrelevant. No better fallacious points to argue?

dwchang · Oct 22, 2010, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

If you made a 'real' PvP title as a requirement, you'll get annoyed players that don't really want to do PvP messing with PvP modes.

That's fine. No one is FORCING them to PvP. What players are saying is that if you want 50/50, a title that implies you are competent in all aspects of the game, you should have to EARN the PvP trophy via...PvP.

I don't get why we're still arguing about that. And I also don't get why people keep saying it'd "force" people to PvP. If you want the trophy, you'll put the work in. Just as I would rather not vanquish all of Tyria, if I want the trophy/title, I'll do it b/c the vanity trophy means that much to me (it doesn't). If you hate PvP that much, then deal with the lack of vanity title. No one is forcing you to PvP and no one is entitled to 50/50. You should have to earn it.

(For the record, I also don't support paying people to do your PvE titles so it goes both ways)

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

The point you are trying to make is anyone who has gladiator rank 3 wants a better reward than people who don't do PvP at all.

This is yet another misconception. I (and many other PvP players) never said we want "better rewards" for having PvP'ed. We're simply saying that to name a trophy "PvP title" then you should have to actually PvP to get it. I'm perfectly fine with PvP and PvE players having ACCESS to the same rewards and then the player deciding if they want to put the work in to achieve it. If they'd rather not play a particular aspect of the game, then so be it.

A.net shouldn't have to babysit players and make 50/50 so accessible. They already made 30/50 easily accessible after all. That is simply what many of the PvP players are saying. We're not advocating "Please give me more rewards because I am awesome at PvP" or something ridiculous like that. Most of us are arguing this from the logic and principle standpoint.

RedStar · Oct 22, 2010, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

@ redstar , you don't like elite areas ? Then don't do them you dont need to do them to get 50/50, there are 47 non PvP statues available including the Zaishen one, ther's only 6 elite statues + LDoA (which nobody realy wants to do, not even PvEers...) So what it boils down to is that PvPers want to force everyone to do something they dont want and accept it that they dont need to do everything to get max reward, isn't that very strange. I don't want to spend the rest of my time in GW1 doing random arena's i rather enjoy playing the game after i did all that was needed to get 50/50.

I have no problem at all with any elites areas and enjoy doing them. The only annoying thing about this game is my lack of luck with gifts...but that's another story. (I admit my example wasn't the best since you aren't required for specific PvE statues).

Quote:

Let me throw something else into this discussion, what if a powertrader says i worked so hard getting this panda why does a panda only count as one rare mini. All you need there is 1 rare 1 unique and 48 white ones to get 8/8. The resilience monument is the same, all you need there is obsidian, vabbi, kurzick and 4 other elite sets, if someone has all 20 diffrent armors plus every elite armor for every profession does he not diserve a better reward ?

You are comparing minis only a thousand people can get to titles that anyone can get in at least a year if they really want to ?
Now the resilience monument I don't understand...they ask every hero in the HoM yet not every elite armors...(or at least close to every).

Quote:

NO the list goes on and on these are all things someone could claim , i know a person who has 85 diffrent minipets in her hall , you think she gets a better reward ?

And someone has identified over 40 000 golds...point is : that person is a farmer and the person you speak of likes minipets (I think).

I think ANet doesn't want someone to have explored every corner, killed every monster, owned every titles, weapons and minipets. They just want someone to have played every aspect of the game.
It's not like they thought "hey let's throw a big middle finger to PvErs and ask a PvP title".

And buying a key from someone else who obtained it by PvP (at least 80% of those being sold) and opening a chest 200 times isn't really a major part of this game...

Quote:

So just because the OP has rank 3 Gladiator which is 400 pts , which is only 1% of the total titel (max gladiator is 40.000) he deserves a better reward than PvE'ers that chose to max out all their PvE titels... If thats the case then i want every PvE titles to be put in HoM as soon as you reach 1% of it's maximum. Let's see Sunspear monument at 500 pts , wisdom at 100 id's , Savior at 100.000, mapping a 1%...

I know what I'm doing is kind of childish right now but I could say the same thing about the Zaishen title requirement.

prinzess of life · Oct 22, 2010, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwchang

That's fine. No one is FORCING them to PvP. What players are saying is that if you want 50/50, a title that implies you are competent in all aspects of the game, you should have to EARN the PvP trophy via...PvP.

I don't get why we're still arguing about that. And I also don't get why people keep saying it'd "force" people to PvP. If you want the trophy, you'll put the work in. Just as I would rather not vanquish all of Tyria, if I want the trophy/title, I'll do it b/c the vanity trophy means that much to me (it doesn't). If you hate PvP that much, then deal with the lack of vanity title. No one is forcing you to PvP and no one is entitled to 50/50. You should have to earn it.

(For the record, I also don't support paying people to do your PvE titles so it goes both ways)

This is yet another misconception. I (and many other PvP players) never said we want "better rewards" for having PvP'ed. We're simply saying that to name a trophy "PvP title" then you should have to actually PvP to get it. I'm perfectly fine with PvP and PvE players having ACCESS to the same rewards and then the player deciding if they want to put the work in to achieve it. If they'd rather not play a particular aspect of the game, then so be it.

A.net shouldn't have to babysit players and make 50/50 so accessible. They already made 30/50 easily accessible after all. That is simply what many of the PvP players are saying. We're not advocating "Please give me more rewards because I am awesome at PvP" or something ridiculous like that. Most of us are arguing this from the logic and principle standpoint.

1) You don't have to be competent in any of the PvE titels to get the statues so why should you have to be competent to get a PvP one?

2) Is earning Balthasar factions not enough to prove at some point of playing the game you did some PvP , i played a PvP ele in AB for 719 hours and a PvP mesmer in AB and GvG for 557 hours and various other characters , by the way i got my savior of the luxons title by playing AB 30th june 2007 that makes me one of the first savior of luxons around at that time, i surely didn't waste my time loseing games and i never did speed clears at all don't tell me i didn't do enough PvP to diserve it.

Lord Mip · Oct 22, 2010, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Counterargument in short: Don't blame us for not having a PvP statue because we liked to do AB/JQ/FA more than doing HA or Syncing stuff.

RedStar · Oct 23, 2010, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

1) You don't have to be competent in any of the PvE titels to get the statues so why should you have to be competent to get a PvP one?

So what ? You are now saying a PvP title is too hard to get so it should be given to anyone just like some PvE titles (I'm not going to discuss on the difficulty of PvE titles, some find them hard, some find them easy, some just find them time consuming).

Now on the kurz/lux discussion I don't really want to get into this debate because while some people got it through pure AB/FA (not JQ, because at the time, no one played in JQ...), more people got it with HFFF and a lot more with DTSC/MQSC.
But this debate is more along the lines of "I did it the hard way and a few days/months later they introduced an easier way". Debates like these kind of lead no where except at

Quote:

"Look my e-peen is bigger than yours!"

Quote:

Is earning Balthazar factions not enough to prove at some point of playing the game you did some PvP

It should be enough, yet a title for that doesn't exist yet. And zaishen isn't a representative of Balthazar faction...

Shayne Hawke · Oct 23, 2010, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

2) Is earning Balthasar factions not enough to prove at some point of playing the game you did some PvP

No, it is not.

RedStar · Oct 23, 2010, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Wow...I actually forgot about that...Ah the everyday "oh let's go get an easy Zkey".

dwchang · Oct 23, 2010, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

1) You don't have to be competent in any of the PvE titels to get the statues so why should you have to be competent to get a PvP one?

You're right which is why I said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwchang

(For the record, I also don't support paying people to do your PvE titles so it goes both ways)

As for the competence, you may not be "the best PvE'er" ever (whatever that means), but if you can beat the elite areas or follow directions so that you beat them, obviously you are competent. By the same token, if you can follow directions or learn things after some practice, you *can* become a competent PvP player as well.

PvE, just like PvP, actually takes some effort (for some parts). You can't just go into Fissure of Woe or Underworld without any preparation and the same goes for PvP. Obviously we can agree that you can get some (if not most) of the PvE trophies without being THAT good, but you still need to have some level of competence (beyond buying titles).

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

2) Is earning Balthasar factions not enough to prove at some point of playing the game you did some PvP , i played a PvP ele in AB for 719 hours and a PvP mesmer in AB and GvG for 557 hours and various other characters , by the way i got my savior of the luxons title by playing AB 30th june 2007 that makes me one of the first savior of luxons around at that time, i surely didn't waste my time loseing games and i never did speed clears at all don't tell me i didn't do enough PvP to diserve it.

Sure. In a perfect situation, A.net would have kept track of your activities and rewarded "PvP" trophies accordingly. In your situation, frankly I believe that would be the most fair solution. However, the suggestion is merely bringing to light that the vast majority of players with the "PvP" Zaishen Title did not earn it via PvP and thus it'd be nice if they solved this.

Most of us realize this will never happen since it'd create a whinefest, but I still don't understand why people can't understand at least what principle or idea we're arguing.

The "ideal" solution would allow folks who actually earned their keys to get the PvP trophy via the Zaishen title and players like you to earn it via the "Luxon" trophy. Sadly, we currently have a situation that is far from idea. That is what we are discussing (I think).

Terrible Surgeon · Oct 23, 2010, 08:36 AM // 08:36

/signed

I used to like buying Zkeys with my balthazar faction and I got z7 earning every key on my own in things like RA, HB, TA, GvG and HA. However, I see so many r10 norn pve players just buying the title it means nothing to me anymore. In fact, I'm embarrassed to zrank at all because it is a tainted title that can be bought. I don't want to be affiliated with players that can buy a title.

Some titles you must buy. Drunkard and other titles that require you to obtain and use items, i understand you must purchase alcohol and sweets and party points to get the max title in a reasonable amount of time. However, buying a title that can only be gained through pvp play is just wrong...balthazar faction is required to get a Zkey, or reward points can be used to gain a Zkey. I personally think Zkeys should have been an unsellable item and non-tradeable item. This would have saved a lot of headaches in GW pvp like RR farmers in HB and RA leavers on Zquest days. Not to mention tanker guilds in GVG that farm GVG zQuest.

The damage was done, the Z title lacks any meaning now and i say make it a PvE title exclusively. It can be bought, and thus lacks any significance other than you farmed ectos or ran dtsc a lot.

Basically: pve players buying a pvp title that they did not earn is dumb...

UnChosen · Oct 23, 2010, 10:03 AM // 10:03

/not signed.

Plenty of people earned their Zaishen title without actually buying Z-key.

cantalus · Oct 23, 2010, 10:14 AM // 10:14

i earned my title pvping, i've got 18.5mil balth, however, i still think it's not a pvp title, it could've been but i guess anet wanted the pve community to have something to emote

it's not a pvp title

RedStar · Oct 23, 2010, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

/not signed.

Plenty of people earned their Zaishen title without actually buying Z-key.

Guru is a tiny minority compared to the GW world, but do you really think that more than 50% of people that have this title did it exclusively by PvP ?

Seeing how much zkeys are sold everyday since they were created, I'm pretty sure more people got it by buying them since day one than by getting them with Balthazar faction and reward points and using them.

prinzess of life · Oct 23, 2010, 01:07 PM // 13:07

I just looked at the Guild Ladder and found another injustice, there are actually people in guilds that did for example guild rank 293 "Loin du monde" 2722 wins 2785 loses , rating 1096 ... because their rating is not above 1200 they never earned any champion points , do you think those people are happy about not having a PvP titel other than Zaishen to put in theire hom. And don't tell me they didn't work for it to have 2722 wins in GvG you must be working hard and to do a total of 5507 GvG is also a prove that you did alot of PvP. Anyone who can C-space trough an area can earn a reputation titel but when it comes to PvP titles you have to be in a rating 1200 guild to earn champion points or you have to get 5 consecutive wins to get 1 gladiator point or you have to be ranked in the first place to join a HA team that can win ... oh and sorry i did'nt fancy doing Red resign while it was available in Hero Battles and i also dont do Red resign now in Codex arenas and i know it's done all the time now. And all my PvE titles i worked for i never bought a unid item for wisdom i never bought sweet/party/drunk point.

Of subject : I was at the Gamscon in Germany, i have seen Guildwars 2 , there is no real PvP in Guildwars 2 any hardcore PvP player will not even play that game anymore , so yes the HoM calculatot should only consider PvE titels because nobody who just did PvP in guildwars 1 will be interested in the upcoming Game.

RedStar · Oct 23, 2010, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Of subject : I was at the Gamscon in Germany, i have seen Guildwars 2 , there is no real PvP in Guildwars 2 any hardcore PvP player will not even play that game anymore , so yes the HoM calculatot should only consider PvE titels because nobody who just did PvP in guildwars 1 will be interested in the upcoming Game.

Oh so you went to see a demo about a game that won't be released for more than a year and you are surprise that they didn't introduced a new system for people that only have 40 minutes of play time ?
For that matter I'm afraid that there won't be any elder dragon because there wasn't any in the demo even thought they have said since the beginning that there will be.
Talking about an unfinished product when we have very few informations is totally irrelevant.

Quote:

I just looked at the Guild Ladder [...]2722 wins 2785 loses

So you randomly picked a guild ?
The last time the ladder was reset was in 2007. I don't know how old that guild is (and I think you don't either) so choosing a random guild for an argument isn't the best...

Quote:

because their rating is not above 1200 they never earned any champion points

What do you know about that ? Maybe their rating was above 1200 at a time and then people left the guild and the rating fell when they started losing instead of winning.

It's known by so many people that GvG is dead.
And if they didn't required a certain rating, this title could be obtained even more easily than any title you can think of : bad guild challenges awfully bad guild, bad guild wins because not all of their warriors had Fire Storm + Meteor Shower.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, but I'll keep saying it : if you want to get a title, join a guild that is going after that title. And try to look for more than 10 minutes...I can already see the "QQ it's full of elitist guilds and no one wants me to be part of their guild because I'm not ranked, QQ PvPers suck" (could have said the same thing by just changing "ranked" by "having a 1337 armor/weapon" and "PvPers" by "PvErs). Elitists exist on both sides of this game.

Asking people to play PvP to get 50/50 is not some elitist behavior.

drkn · Oct 23, 2010, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Seeing how much zkeys are sold everyday since they were created, I'm pretty sure more people got it by buying them since day one than by getting them with Balthazar faction and reward points and using them.

So you say that most of the keys being sold nowadays has been in the circulation since the early days of GW, aka no one actually uses up the keys but keeps them as a currency instead?
WTS basic observation and common logic.

Quote:

Of subject : I was at the Gamscon in Germany, i have seen Guildwars 2 , there is no real PvP in Guildwars 2 any hardcore PvP player will not even play that game anymore , so yes the HoM calculatot should only consider PvE titels because nobody who just did PvP in guildwars 1 will be interested in the upcoming Game.

Maybe because the demo was meant to show a tiny little bit of the PvE gameplay, while we still know about quite interesting PvP formats incoming?