Curse

Boring and Pointless · Oct 17, 2010, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

Hmm you forgot codex/hero

Commander title is no longer available & no one plays codex.

jazilla · Oct 17, 2010, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

I think it simpler to consider the problem a naming thing.
In this case, "PvP title" refers to a title that can be acquired only in the PvP areas. That is, a "Battle isles title".

Gamer is not considered PvP. Why? Because many games are not organized by the Zaishen. Even when once in the arena outpost you'll often see the Battle Isles map as the region map, you don't have to step at all in the Battle isles to enter that outpost. But there is no way to get to HA or TA without going to the battle isles (including your guild hall) first.

Kurzick and Luxon are partially PvP too like the Zaishen title, but it's not added. Why? Because it happens in Factions, not in the Battle Isles.

And the Zaishen title, even when you can get it by doing only PvE (much slower than by doing only PvP) or by purchasing the keys from others, you MUST be in the Battle isles to get it. There's no way around that.

Rename "PvP title" to "Battle isles title" and done, all the inconsistencies are solved.

Of course, that won't make those that want to remove the Zaishen happy, but just think:
"Would they be complaining if the the title was name "Battle Isles title" in the first place?"
Yes, they will, people always complain, but the complains would be the usual ones.

this is a really good point actually and I didn't see it that way. I really am not trying to be elitist or anything. like i said in my original post when i started this thread, it just made my RA title feel cheap when someone could just buy z-keys and never have to step foot in a single PvP match. it's just my opinion and i was expressing it but MithranArkanere makes a really good point.

I also think they could have added some new life to PvP though by making people, you know, actually PvP that wanted those three points for their HoM. But, I also understand, people that don't like how they are treated in PvP not wanting to do it.

dwchang · Oct 17, 2010, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boring and Pointless

Should have been:

Hero r6+ (1 point)
Glad R3+ (1 point)
Champ r3+ (1 point)
All three (2 points)

Not sure why this went to 8 pages.

I like this. Although I agree with both this and the OP's suggestion, we all know it'll never happen. A.net would piss off A LOT of PvE'ers who paid their 1 million gold for their Zaishen title so most of us are probably just arguing on principle.

jazilla · Oct 17, 2010, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwchang

I like this. Although I agree with both this and the OP's suggestion, we all know it'll never happen. A.net would piss off A LOT of PvE'ers who paid their 1 million gold for their Zaishen title so most of us are probably just arguing on principle.

I agree. At this point it is a principle thing.

Also, now that I think about it, there is no "in-game" incentive to earn a PvP statue other than the Zaishen statue anymore. You can easily get the Z-Title points you need doing PvP before you will EVER get an actual Arena Title statue. That to me is one of the problems with this whole thing.

RedStar · Oct 17, 2010, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Commander title is no longer available & no one plays codex.

Thus the "/". Some people gained it before it died and for the codex...well if it was required maybe more people will play it right ?

And well maybe HA isn't empty, but instead of no one playing, it's more like no one wants to play with anyone else...

I don't wanna say RA is based on luck, but it kind of is... 10 sync teams in a row or 10 resign/leaver teams and all in between. But it's fun (except those times you find a whiny QQ "Im 1337 nd u Rnt").

Did very few GvG so won't speak on champion.

Don't really care if they change Zaishen to PvE (1 year + to get r3 glad is more than enough if you want 50/50), but asking all the PvP titles is kind of a pain (might as well get all PvE titles, rank max of course (lucky/unlucky/kurzick/luxon) and beat all elite zones. And while we're at it : get 11 tormented, 11 oppressor, and 11 destroyer weapons).
Point is : if they ask to play 75% of PvP for PvE rewards, might as well ask all PvE related things completed.

newbie_of_doom · Oct 17, 2010, 06:28 PM // 18:28

This discussion is ridicilous. It boils down to a very simple statement: if you want the FULL reward, play the FULL game. The zaishen title is, for obvious reasons not to be considered a PvP title. The points for the PvP titles are just, since even gladiator is much harder to achieve than any PvE title (which doesn't mean that PvE titles are worthless).

Circular reasoning that everyone should be getting 50/50 is ridicilous. The title is supposed to be an achievement, one can argue over wether it is one of endurance of skill. But it's still an achievement. PvP is also a big part of GW, and if you want to get the maxium credit for the game, you will have to play the full game, which includes PvP.

drkn · Oct 17, 2010, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

The points for the PvP titles are just, since even gladiator is much harder to achieve than any PvE title (which doesn't mean that PvE titles are worthless).

Harder? No. Just longer to get, mainly because of luck factor. In PvE, you either run good builds and know what to expect, what to take and how to cope with enemies, or just wipe. In RA you have to get a nice team, where no one lags out, where everyone knows what to do... or just sync, aka cheat. And still you have to grind up a lot.
In terms of personal difficulty, Gladiator is fairly easy to get. You don't even need to find out a PUG or get into a specialised guild for that.

I wouldn't mind if they changed Gamer to be PvP and make Zaishen unlinked. But things are good the way they are, seriously.

Shriketalon · Oct 17, 2010, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie_of_doom

This discussion is ridicilous. It boils down to a very simple statement: if you want the FULL reward, play the FULL game. The zaishen title is, for obvious reasons not to be considered a PvP title. The points for the PvP titles are just, since even gladiator is much harder to achieve than any PvE title (which doesn't mean that PvE titles are worthless).

The difficulty of a PvP match depends completely upon the opponent. At its best, it is an epic battle between skilled foes, one barely overcoming the other through superior tactics, reflexes, and determination. At worst, it's just thrashing a bunch of disorganized scrubs for the exact same reward. But that's just a tangent.

Regardless, there's a simple problem with your statement: completing the Hall doesn't mean completing the full game.

You can get 50/50 without getting Legendary Guardian. You can complete everything without ever having slain Shiro. You can gain the maximum title without having completed Prophecies, or never fighting a GvG match, or never drinking a single ale. The Hall does not, and should not represent completing every single tiny little facet of the game.

As a result, since PvP has less overall content than PvE, it is possible to complete enough of Ye Olde Guild Wars Experience via player versus environment gameplay to warrant a full hall.

deluxe · Oct 19, 2010, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

Harder? No. Just longer to get, mainly because of luck factor. In PvE, you either run good builds and know what to expect, what to take and how to cope with enemies, or just wipe. In RA you have to get a nice team, where no one lags out, where everyone knows what to do... or just sync, aka cheat. And still you have to grind up a lot.
In terms of personal difficulty, Gladiator is fairly easy to get. You don't even need to find out a PUG or get into a specialised guild for that.

I wouldn't mind if they changed Gamer to be PvP and make Zaishen unlinked. But things are good the way they are, seriously.

No matter what, PvP titles will always be harder and less of a grind than any PvE title.
Most pve titles are pure grinds and a giant waste of time like cartography. (I'm doing that atm for 50/50

)
I can't remember any of the PvE title/statues being hard, and i've got all vanquisher/guardian titles before pve-skills were even introduced.
PvP can be hard at times

drkn · Oct 19, 2010, 10:43 AM // 10:43

As long as i can agree on other PvP titles, as they do require some sort of pre-thought teamplay, according builds, tactics, more experience and so, Gladiator is pure grind with nearly no difficulty on your own personal shoulders (fine, monking there gives you some responsibility for your team's survival, but if you get two dervs and a para that only attack the enemy warrior instead of healer... well, you get the point). Getting it is even slower than Cartography or maxing EotN titles. Unless you sync, but i wouldn't mention it in a serious discussion.
Just a simple comparison. How long does it take to get R3 Gladiator? It still bases much on luck - you either get a decent team or just waste time. On the other hand, you may get VQ+Carto titles at the same time, with no luck factor involved.

*lemming* · Oct 19, 2010, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

Gladiator is pure grind with nearly no difficulty on your own personal shoulders

I would agree with that to a point - experience and skill both make the rate of gain significantly faster, although it's definitely still a grind title.

As for speed, I've gotten about 50 points in the past three days. I'm not sure how much total playtime, maybe ~5 hours?

Estic · Oct 19, 2010, 11:15 AM // 11:15

If Luxon/Kurzick counts as PvP:
/signed.

cantalus · Oct 19, 2010, 01:09 PM // 13:09

anet should have made an emote for glad/codex/commander rank.

anet deciding that zaishen rank is a pvp title tells us all we need to know

Fox Reeveheart · Oct 19, 2010, 02:14 PM // 14:14

NOT SIGNED

No way, how the heck else am I supposed to get the pvp trophy? I been here FIVE years and I have 6 fame... SIX!

I seen the hall of heroes like 3 times ever, of course we never won. I've had the worst luck in pvp, never been able to beat that first battle most of the time.

or if lux/kurz counts as pvp... then i'll take that.

Hyperventilate · Oct 19, 2010, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Not signed. I have never purchased a key and every z-key I ever got was from Fort Aspenwood.

I earned it in PVP, it should stay PVP. It's my PVP statue, 'nuff said.

Del · Oct 19, 2010, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox Reeveheart

NOT SIGNED

No way, how the heck else am I supposed to get the pvp trophy? I been here FIVE years and I have 6 fame... SIX!

I seen the hall of heroes like 3 times ever, of course we never won. I've had the worst luck in pvp, never been able to beat that first battle most of the time.

or if lux/kurz counts as pvp... then i'll take that.

You shouldn't have a pvp trophy. You obviously aren't capable of pvping at even an HA acceptable level, and HA is small time. I don't know why you, and others, feel this self-entitlement when it comes to the pvp statue. Anet doesn't owe you a statue that you don't want to earn, so actually pvp if you want it so badly. Not as if it matters because this thread is going to be another one of those things anet couldn't give two shits for, but seriously, get over that bullshit feeling of self-entitlement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyperventilate

Not signed. I have never purchased a key and every z-key I ever got was from Fort Aspenwood.

How you got your zaishen title is of no consequence. You are one of the extremely vast minority that actually put effort into farming the title.

Lord Mip · Oct 19, 2010, 03:43 PM // 15:43

/not signed. For one, the GW2 rewards are pretty much PvE rewards so the majority of the rewards being from PvE isn't really bad in my book. Secondly, it's quite easy to say for PvP'ers to PvE'ers to get a PvP title but the rank discrimination makes it incredibly difficult to even GET STARTED in PvP, let alone reach the title you need. There is no such discrimination in PvE and thus it's easier to go from PvP > PvE than PvP > PvE

RedStar · Oct 19, 2010, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Oh how could I (and we, although maybe I didn't pay enough attention to all posts) forget the xunlai tournament house. Easiest way to get keys.

Quote:

anet should have made an emote for glad/codex/commander rank.

Don't forget champion. But then they'll have to make an emote for so many titles because of course PvPers aren't the only one to give a piece of their minds.

Quote:

No way, how the heck else am I supposed to get the pvp trophy? I been here FIVE years and I have 6 fame... SIX!

I seen the hall of heroes like 3 times ever, of course we never won. I've had the worst luck in pvp, never been able to beat that first battle most of the time.

Well sorry but it's like saying "I've never been able to get passed the aatxe/greater darkness/priest of Menzies so I shouldn't be penalized because of that". HA isn't the only place you can get a PvP title, try gladiator. While it can sometime be painful, I find it easier than getting Hero r6 if PvP isn't your thing.

Also don't forget : 30/50 can be done without setting a foot in the battle isles. "I played almost every aspect of the game" a.k.a 50/50 shouldn't.

dwchang · Oct 19, 2010, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mip

There is no such discrimination in PvE and thus it's easier to go from PvP > PvE than PvP > PvE

Are you serious? Go to Temple of Ages AD1 or Gates of Anguish and see if you can get into a Fissure of Woe, UnderWorld or DoA group without an Assassin, 100b Warrior, UA Monk or Ritualist. In fact, apparently this "UW Stones" thing is the latest way to discriminate. I've said it multiple times, but why do PvE players think that only PvP players are "elitist pricks?" It goes both ways. There is a vocal MINORITY of elitist pricks in BOTH types of gameplay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

Well sorry but it's like saying "I've never been able to get passed the aatxe/greater darkness/priest of Menzies so I shouldn't be penalized because of that".

Also don't forget : 30/50 can be done without setting a foot in the battle isles. "I played almost every aspect of the game" a.k.a 50/50 shouldn't.

100% agreed.

As someone else already said (and I've also said), why do players have this sense of entitlement like A.net OWES THEM 50/50. The title should have been something special and hard to get and required players to master ALL ASPECTS of the game. Currently all the title means is "you're good at PvE/farming" which GWAMM already was. Frankly the title is redundant and gives PvE players another way to RANK DISCRIMINATE (that seems to be a popular phrase).

If a vanity title means that much to you and you want 50/50 then I feel you should have to EARN IT by having at least tried all aspects of the game and doing moderately successful. I still have yet to see a sufficient rebuttal to that argument.

I also don't understand this pigeonholing that PvE players do to any disagreement regarding PvP. That basically the only reason we're arguing is because we're jealous or something or want to feel "elite." For the record, I have PvE'ed (and PvP'ed) quite a bit these last five years and am working towards my 50/50 (no I don't feel entitled to free PvE trophies). This has nothing to do with that. Most of us are arguing about something we believe is unfair and inaccurate and to pigeonhole all of us as elitist is just...well it seems to be the popular thing PvE players like to do whenever a PvP player disagrees. Couldn't it be a lot simpler than that and that we're arguing because we simply disagree? Why does it have to be some PvP vs. PvE or Elitists vs. True Players type of thing? That's just ridiculous and sounds like something out of high school.

Unfortunately, as I said before, all of us know A.net won't change things. It'd understandably create a complain fest like we've never seen from folks who spent 1000k buying Z-keys. Obviously I disagree with that title being included, but it's still not fair for A.net to change things AFTER THE FACT. So again, I think many of us are just arguing this from a principle standpoint and not a "I'm jealous of PvE trophies" or "Those PvE'ers shouldn't have MY elite trophy!" standpoint as others seem to imply.

RedStar · Oct 19, 2010, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

There is no such discrimination in PvE and thus it's easier to go from PvP > PvE than PvP > PvE

Oh come on, you are either lying or have a wonderful PvE guild.

It may not be the same kind of discrimination but it still exists in elite areas
And to get into RA you don't have to search for a team. You are forced to party with 3 other people (good, bad, fun, whiny, you don't have a single choice).

And just like being in a good PvE guild helps getting titles and doing elite areas, being in a good PvP guild helps getting titles and getting into HA.