Curse

Elnino · Oct 13, 2010, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

Let's use a funny example.

PvP'er plays PvP.
He exchanges faction for Zaishen Keys.
He sells the Zaishen Keys for sweet points.

OMFG, you don't have to PvE to get Sweettooth!! Let's make it a PvP title!!

/thread

You can max the sweet tooth title by doing either PvE or PvP but it's not considered a PvP title. This is exactly the same for the zaishen title. It can be acquired either by doing PvE or PvP, therefore, it should not be a PvP title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by matter of time

Z-key is reward for PVP ... anyone any doubt for that?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zaishen_Challenge_Quest and http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jessie_Llam

Milennin · Oct 13, 2010, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

You can max the sweet tooth title by doing either PvE or PvP but it's not considered a PvP title. This is exactly the same for the zaishen title. It can be acquired either by doing PvE or PvP, therefore, it should not be a PvP title.

Why is it bad when a title which can be obtained through both PvE or PvP to be counted as a PvP title, but it's ok when a title that can be obtained through both PvE or PvP to be counted as a PvE title? That just doesn't make sense, unless you are saying PvP is holier than PvE.

Missing HB · Oct 13, 2010, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

Why is it bad when a title which can be obtained through both PvE or PvP to be counted as a PvP title, but it's ok when a title that can be obtained through both PvE or PvP to be counted as a PvE title? That just doesn't make sense, unless you are saying PvP is holier than PvE.

Easy reason : a pve title can be obtained in 1 day or in few hours , because you are able to do it with heroes , you just go in mission and then it depends on you. In Pvp , you can play during some weeks and not gain a lot of points , simply because you have no luck , because you can't find a team , because your mates fail..... Point here is that wiki builds are efficient vs all mobs , but they are not efficient vs ALL HUMANS .

The same can be applied for cash titles : considering you got enough money , you can just buy and have the title in less than an hour.Anyway , what's pvp in clicking a chest many times ?

Answer to End : this arena relies too much on luck , considering you need 5 wins per point , yo ucan just do it 24/7 and have 0 point.Example : this last week end , i played monk , but i ended having like 3 points in 5 hours , just because i either had 3monks , either none each fight ....

matter of time · Oct 13, 2010, 10:58 AM // 10:58

I wonder how many guys will quote again that zkeys can be obtainable for zconis .... really funny ... taking into account that exchanging coins for zkeys is simply not worth ... better to take ritualis elite books or even more profitable just take heavy equipment bag ... and then sell it for ectos or just for zkeys

... anyway anyone who uses the brain instead of e-pen is aware that totaly vast majority of zkeys comes from pvps ... simple as that
EOT

End · Oct 13, 2010, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by matter of time

I wonder how many guys will quote again that zkeys can be obtainable for zconis .... really funny ... taking into account that exchanging coins for zkeys is simply not worth ... better to take ritualis elite books or even more profitable just take heavy equipment bag ... and then sell it for ectos or just for zkeys

... anyway anyone who uses the brain instead of e-pen is aware that totaly vast majority of zkeys comes from pvps ... simple as that
EOT

<---sold around 1k zkeys i got from xunlai back in the day....just sayin, in my case more of mine came from me not pvping then me pvping.

Milennin · Oct 13, 2010, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Easy reason : a pve title can be obtained in 1 day or in few hours , because you are able to do it with heroes , you just go in mission and then it depends on you. In Pvp , you can play during some weeks and not gain a lot of points , simply because you have no luck , because you can't find a team , because your mates fail..... Point here is that wiki builds are efficient vs all mobs , but they are not efficient vs ALL HUMANS .

That doesn't make sense in why it's ok that PvE titles are obtainable through both PvE or PvP, but it's not for titles that count as PvP title.
There's not one universal build to beat PvE with, you will need specific builds for certain areas, just as you need specific builds to counter other players in PvP (builds which you can find in PvX Wiki anyways).

Also, I don't see why PvP titles requiring luck to obtain mean that they're worth more than a PvE title. Luck is nothing to brag about.

Smarty · Oct 13, 2010, 12:07 PM // 12:07

/Notsigned.

I got my zkeys through PvP (same as I did my lux/kurz - still not happy that that's a PvE title, but that's a different matter). OK so it might be very low end PvP but it still gave me balth faction and it still involved being on a team of players playing against/killing another team of players so it's still PvP.

Make HA r3 count, or make lux/kurz r8+ and PvP, or make zaishen based on balth faction not zkeys and then I'll /sign.

Ewon · Oct 13, 2010, 12:33 PM // 12:33

I don't see how balthizar faction would stop this title from being bought... oh noez,, faction is buyable.

Z-Keys were intended as pvp rewards, and are gotten from pvp easiest. I'd say this title counts due to it being related to pvp. Someone spend the time pvping to get them, just because they sold them to a pve'r shouldn't mean anything. If all the 'hardcore (lol)' pvp'rs we see on these forums stopped selling their keys, maybe people wouldn;t get the title so fast. Yes you can get them from pve Z quests, but common, the pvp ZQ is the quickest one of those quests.

For those sayiung it's to easy to get the title, are you telling me r6 hero, r3 glad/command/codex are hard, like at all? You call yourself a serious pvp'r and think those are hard to get, lolz. Sure it takes a little more time, but you complain about having to grid a pve title anyway.

I'm not saying the title was implemented in the best way, and yes, I think customized keys would have helped, but common, getting 1 pvp title that isn't Zaishen isn't hard either.

Stop QQ just because someone can get a title you have...

Missing HB · Oct 13, 2010, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewon

I don't see how balthizar faction would stop this title from being bought... oh noez,, faction is buyable.

Z-Keys were intended as pvp rewards, and are gotten from pvp easiest. I'd say this title counts due to it being related to pvp. Someone spend the time pvping to get them, just because they sold them to a pve'r shouldn't mean anything. If all the 'hardcore (lol)' pvp'rs we see on these forums stopped selling their keys, maybe people wouldn;t get the title so fast. Yes you can get them from pve Z quests, but common, the pvp ZQ is the quickest one of those quests.

For those sayiung it's to easy to get the title, are you telling me r6 hero, r3 glad/command/codex are hard, like at all? You call yourself a serious pvp'r and think those are hard to get, lolz. Sure it takes a little more time, but you complain about having to grid a pve title anyway.

I'm not saying the title was implemented in the best way, and yes, I think customized keys would have helped, but common, getting 1 pvp title that isn't Zaishen isn't hard either.

Stop QQ just because someone can get a title you have...

Correction : getting pvp titles wasn't hard , but it is now , due to ( as we are saying for like what , 1 year ? ) epic inactivity . Even a serious hardcore pvp you mention will take time to get 1000 fame , thus guess for a newcomer ....

Apart of that , since you obviously didn't understand the point , you can have that title in many ways , by not even fighting any player . Even someone who didn't buy keys could do it with xunlai house , zaishen challenge , etc....

Ewon · Oct 13, 2010, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Correction : getting pvp titles wasn't hard , but it is now , due to ( as we are saying for like what , 1 year ? ) epic inactivity . Even a serious hardcore pvp you mention will take time to get 1000 fame , thus guess for a newcomer ....

Apart of that , since you obviously didn't understand the point , you can have that title in many ways , by not even fighting any player . Even someone who didn't buy keys could do it with xunlai house , zaishen challenge , etc....

I didn't say poeple needed to fight anyone for keys ^^, but ok.

So, it was easy before, but isn't now. Are you saying you don't want newcomers to get this title from buying keys, you would rather them try and get r6 in an inactive arena? I don't feel those of us who already have things like r6/g3 should tell others they need to fight in HA because thats how we got the title. Arguing to say these titles take more skill to get, yet admitting they were easy back when a lot of people got them, clearly you just don't want people to get what you have. Kinda selfish if you ask me. (I'll also note my pvp reward is from r6/g3/c3, and Z-keys from getting those titles)

You can still go for g3, ra does still have some life in it...

Shayne Hawke · Oct 13, 2010, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

Let's use a funny example.

PvP'er plays PvP.
He exchanges faction for Zaishen Keys.
He sells the Zaishen Keys for sweet points.

OMFG, you don't have to PvE to get Sweettooth!! Let's make it a PvP title!!

/thread

Your scenario is not any kind of counter to the position that PvP titles are meant to be those titles which are gained exclusively through PvP. Any opportunity for the title to be gained through non-PvP means should instantly label it as a PvE title. Saying that you can get a title through PvP doesn't make it a PvP title, but saying you can get a title through PvE does make it a PvE title.

If you bought your keys to get to r3 Zaishen, or if anyone was able to do so, and since we know that gold is easily earned through PvE, we should be able to reason that Zaishen is a PvE title.

Skyy High · Oct 13, 2010, 01:40 PM // 13:40

And yet you can buy fame and champ points. Whoops, there goes that definition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwchang

I do find it humorous that a small minority of PvE'ers are complaining that 3 out of 50 points (6%) are PvP-related so they can't as easily max out their HoM while technically 47 out of 50 points (94%) are PvE-related. You don't see PvP'ers whining that they can't fill their HoM due to their lack of PvE so frankly PvE'ers shouldn't be doing the same thing. If anything, the system HEAVILY favors PvE'ers, but that has been the case since ~2006 or 2007 so that's fine.

One thing you, and most of the other PvP players in here fail to realize is that - even correcting for the fact that there are far, far more players who identify as "PvE players" than "PvP players" - there are relatively few "pure PvP players" who have never and will never touch PvP, compared to the HUGE numbers of "pure PvE players who will never touch PvP out of principle, completely ignoring anything relating to skill or aptitude. Restricting the "max achievement" title to people who play PvE just isn't good business sense, and sorry, that trumps the desire of a tiny fraction of the community to be the 1337-est of the 1337.

PvP rewards in one game shouldn't be terribly meaningful in another anyway. If you want GW2 to have actually meaningful rewards in PvP, best not clog it with a bunch of detritus from a partially broken game.

Shayne Hawke · Oct 13, 2010, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

And yet you can buy fame and champ points. Whoops, there goes that definition.

You buy your way onto a team of good players and play for your points against other players. For GvG, this is either done against a legitimate team and can be considered fair PvP, or is done in tandem with other point farming teams and falls outside of this discussion due to being a bannable offense. For HA, you can't force your way against lame teams, so playing against other legitimate players is a must, no matter how unimportant a bar you may be given to play. The argument stands.

Kydd · Oct 13, 2010, 02:20 PM // 14:20

/signed

People who want to max should have done a little bit of everything in the game including some pvp not just getting rich. If you refuse to pvp just display your gwamm instead of champion of the gods.

Also if you pay to be carried to the pvp title you are still pvping I dont see the connection between being carried and buying the title.

Milennin · Oct 13, 2010, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Your scenario is not any kind of counter to the position that PvP titles are meant to be those titles which are gained exclusively through PvP. Any opportunity for the title to be gained through non-PvP means should instantly label it as a PvE title. Saying that you can get a title through PvP doesn't make it a PvP title, but saying you can get a title through PvE does make it a PvE title.

If you bought your keys to get to r3 Zaishen, or if anyone was able to do so, and since we know that gold is easily earned through PvE, we should be able to reason that Zaishen is a PvE title.

By your logic - If you bought your Sweet Tooth title with the money you got off selling Zaishen Keys, which you obtained through PvP'ing, or if anyone was able to do so, we should be able to reason that Sweet Tooth is a PvP title.

Still answer me this, what makes PvP so much more special than PvE?

Gill Halendt · Oct 13, 2010, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

Still answer me this, what makes PvP so much more special than PvE?

(So much that it even gets a special point for one non-maxed, equally exploitable / buyable / bottable / synchable title...?)

Shayne Hawke · Oct 13, 2010, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

By your logic - If you bought your Sweet Tooth title with the money you got off selling Zaishen Keys, which you obtained through PvP'ing, or if anyone was able to do so, we should be able to reason that Sweet Tooth is a PvP title.

Still answer me this, what makes PvP so much more special than PvE?

No, that's not my logic at all. You played PvP, you earned Zaishen Keys, you sold them for money, you bought sweets, and you consumed them to get the title. The only thing you've done is PvP. That does not say that Sweet Tooth is a PvP title. However, I have farmed dungeons for rare weapons, sold those weapons, used the gold from that to buy sweets, and earned my title in that way. I never had to step foot into an arena to do this, so it clearly can not be considered a PvP title. No amount of PvP is necessary for me to earn this title.

Zaishen is certainly a PvE title. I do not have to play any of the PvP arenas in order to earn money for buying other people's keys and earning the title through a strictly PvE means. That disqualifies it from being a PvP title. PvP titles should be restricted to titles that can only be achieved through fighting other players in a PvP arena.

Milennin · Oct 13, 2010, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

No, that's not my logic at all. You played PvP, you earned Zaishen Keys, you sold them for money, you bought sweets, and you consumed them to get the title. The only thing you've done is PvP. That does not say that Sweet Tooth is a PvP title. However, I have farmed dungeons for rare weapons, sold those weapons, used the gold from that to buy sweets, and earned my title in that way. I never had to step foot into an arena to do this, so it clearly can not be considered a PvP title. No amount of PvP is necessary for me to earn this title.

Zaishen is certainly a PvE title. I do not have to play any of the PvP arenas in order to earn money for buying other people's keys and earning the title through a strictly PvE means. That disqualifies it from being a PvP title. PvP titles should be restricted to titles that can only be achieved through fighting other players in a PvP arena.

OK, so let's use another example then. You sell the money you got off your Zaishen Keys, which you bought with faction through PvP'ing and bought a Vanquishing service which will vanquish areas for you while you being afk the whole time.
You PvP'd for the money to pay for the service for the PvE title, without doing any PvE yourself at all.

jazilla · Oct 13, 2010, 03:17 PM // 15:17

I think we are getting into dissecting minutiae here. I want to make it really simple to everyone what my point of starting this thread was: If you want a PvP title, you should earn a PvP title doing some PvP. I don't think that is too hard to grasp, and it is a logical, forthright reason.

Shayne Hawke · Oct 13, 2010, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

OK, so let's use another example then. You sell the money you got off your Zaishen Keys, which you bought with faction through PvP'ing and bought a Vanquishing service which will vanquish areas for you while you being afk the whole time.
You PvP'd for the money to pay for the service for the PvE title, without doing any PvE yourself at all.

I can vanquish areas or pay for someone to vanquish them for me without ever having to step into an arena. Vanquisher titles are therefore PvE.

You can continue to run down the list of PvE titles and explain how you earned them with money through PvP, but my argument is still going to be that those titles are plenty obtainable without ever having to step foot in an arena, making them PvE titles rather than PvP.