Curse

Swingline · Nov 21, 2010, 08:51 AM // 08:51

We all know pvp needs a huge revamp to make it lively again bc HA is stagnate with only ranked players, RA is full of mesmers(every time i go in 2-3 mesmers in both groups 90% of the time) and sync teams. Codex is terrible and should be burned to the ground. Here are some of my suggestions and I enjoy positive and negative feedback

Weapon Swapping: I always enjoyed weapon swapping but srsly if u cant armor swap in pvp(they nerfed armor swapping 2-3 years ago) u shouldn't be able to pull 20 diff main-hands and off hands out of your ass in the middle of getting it sliced and diced. 4 diff sets are enough. If this restriction was implemented it would help bring a little bit more of a relaxed environment and make pvp somewhat fun again(It is a game after all). Plus it would make you have to think of what to prepare for based on what builds ppl are running in HA,RA etc at the time u are playing and prepare for it.

Spread the wealth: Pretty sure this idea has been posted on here but ill say it anyways, all lvls of HA should give rewards for the winner. The Top players shouldn't be reaping all the rewards. Consecutive fame should suffice them.

RA Syncing: So simple... bring back TA. ppl have been saying this since codex was implemented. idk why anet never listens to the fan base when their own ideas like codex are complete FAILURES. Srsly what do u guys have to lose with a dead pvp system anyways.

Alliance Battles: tbh LOTS of ppl still ab and we only get kurz/lux along with balth faction. Yea doing ab gets u higher in decent title, but that title only contributes to pve skills which is totally lame and nobody cares about the territory. AB should give more imo.

That's my 2 cents. Plz Feel free to post your own opinions.

Adding this a few hours later since i cant bump my own post. Plz Ignore Hollabigj. Hes only here to drag RA chat to the guru forums. Let the economists worry about the condition of the world. I came here to talk about a video game, not different countries of the world and how they run their economy. Plz go to RA local chat or some other forum for that stuff.

HollaBigj · Nov 21, 2010, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Spread the wealth?

Move to China then, because spread the wealth is a communism idea. This is democracy that promotes competitive people to get reward not lazy people whom get reward.

So, work hard and you deserve what you get.

*lemming* · Nov 21, 2010, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Weapon swapping from inventory has zero relevance to anything you're talking about. It's completely optional and increases effectiveness only by tiny margins.

superraptors · Nov 21, 2010, 11:31 AM // 11:31

'top players shouldn't be reaping rewards'...lol so your saying people who pick there ...should deserve the same rewards as the people who put more effort then them? that logic is flawed and idiotic.

pvp does not need a revamp[codex only], skill balancing needs to be better, yes mesmers are a plague atm but dumbing down the game will eventually make us unable to kill each other at all. as long as the meta keeps getting nerfed another OP'd skill will appear and people will start bitching about that, its a never ending cycle, what they need to do is buff the underpowered skills to bring order back to the game.

Faure · Nov 21, 2010, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by HollaBigj

Spread the wealth?

Move to China then, because spread the wealth is a communism idea. This is democracy that promotes competitive people to get reward not lazy people whom get reward.

So, work hard and you deserve what you get.

Democracy is a political system with elections. I think you mean the economical system called capitalism?

drkn · Nov 21, 2010, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

what they need to do is buff the underpowered skills to bring order back to the game.

So, more general powercreep and more builds that let you mash your face on the keyboard to kill someone?

Killed u man · Nov 21, 2010, 01:44 PM // 13:44

1) Esurgeway (with poopsins) is a build needing to get nerfed for a long time. The community, the better players anyways, know this, and anyone slightly involved in game balance know this. However, for now, we can only hope this shitway spreads to GvG because the TK only cares about GvG, and they even fail at balancing that format.

On a good sidenote: I have been seeing some Conjure sins post black mantis nerf, and I think the amazingly experienced and competent players of the TK are slowly starting to realize there is a problem with Jagged and fox fangs.

2) How does weapon swapping hurt the game? Read lemming's post again.

3) Spread the wealth should happen. I'm in favor of increasing the fame rewards so more people can get rank. At the same time, they could remove the intire fame bar after R3 (for HoM). I, and neither should any top HA'er, don't care about my fame bar, but as long as it exists, I am going to use it when forming groups.

4) TA was shit and got synced aswell, people just didn't know about it. Codex is a good format, but terribly implemented and flawed in many ways, but not by nature. RA should give glad points for each win.

5) AB is fine.

Also:

Quote:

Originally Posted by HollaBigj

Spread the wealth?

Move to China then, because spread the wealth is a communism idea. This is democracy that promotes competitive people to get reward not lazy people whom get reward.

So, work hard and you deserve what you get.

Spread the wealth isn't a communism idea. Clearly you just got indoctrinated by western society as was the way of life pre 2000's, but no, you're wrong.

As a matter of fact, capitalism is flawed by nature. Capitalism is what created the billions of poor people because the people who "worked hard" enslaved all the people who didn't have the chance to "work hard" which resulted in what is now know as Africa. (as a prime example)

Communism is probably one of the best social structures that exist, given that it is not infested by corrupt, powerhorny people, as was the case in USSR and China nowadays.

Capitalism is what created 99% of today's world's problems.

Gennadios · Nov 21, 2010, 05:02 PM // 17:02

The pvp "reward" system and balancing are far too skewed towards compensating the very top. This has the effect of making entry into the format utterly unrewarding, while at the same time tuning skills so much to compensate for top end abuse so as to make them at best useless and at worst an energy sink to the average player. (10, 30 recharge, 2sec Aegis, lulz)

The only reason the formats even got off the ground is because it was intended as end-game content and actually had some unique rewards for a while.

And then somebody who sucked at PvP figured out that if they got their HP down to 55 and abusing healing breeze and protective spirit, they could farm trolls outside of Drok's and earn those unique rewards way faster. The beginning of the end.

Master Fuhon · Nov 21, 2010, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

As a matter of fact, capitalism is flawed by nature. Capitalism is what created the billions of poor people because the people who "worked hard" enslaved all the people who didn't have the chance to "work hard" which resulted in what is now know as Africa. (as a prime example)

Just because traveling warbands in Africa are killing, looting, and engagin in human traficking for profit, does not mean that this is a system of capitalism. Capitalism is for a privately owned means of production. Warbands do not have respect for the concept of anyone else's ownership, which unfortunately, some communists/socialists do not either. Capitalism did not create the world's problems; some of the world's problem-makers have framed governments of communism, socialism, and capitalism around their own behaviors.

PvP needs a minimum wage hike. The worst PvPer can choose PvE over getting nothing in PvP from getting rejected from groups, killing no one, and losing all the time. I don't doubt that simple PvE farming will still exceed the PvP minimum wage if it were to be raised. PvE and PvP cannot have wage ceilings implemented though, because players can drive the prices of items all they want in markets by speculating.

Also, there is part of the PvE economy based entirely on luck over skill. What would you call a government that determines what people get by a lottery, and a system where everyone is encouraged to take the same professions to earn the most? I would call it a government either ruling by oppression or about to be overthrown.

Gift3d · Nov 21, 2010, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Guild Wars PvP had a heartattack a long time ago, and if you look at the past year's worth of skill updates, Anet does not give even half a flying shit about it. The only revamps you will see are to make PvP more of an imbalanced shitfest (see the last skill update). The game's in a post-mortem state, and nobody of importance will listen to you. The community's only worthy of attention when they're making dolls and pumpkins.

Time's nigh to PvE. We get lots of new PvE content, and our dumbed down, horribly powerful PvE skills are here to stay to make all the new content able to be played without even having basic motor skills.

Chrisworld · Nov 21, 2010, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Why don't they introduce large PvP battles that take place on large playing fields? Reuse an instance and close the portals (just use the map files for these) like North Kryta Province, or that large meadowy field outside of Shing Jee Monastery. And have like 15 on 15 or Free for All battles lol. Can be accessed on the PvP isles via an NPC, etc..

Missing HB · Nov 21, 2010, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Spread the Wealth : why not . Seriously , how pathetic to ask PvE or less experienced players to GvG when all top players just play on lower rating guilds when it's quest and farm all those people..not like they will come again...And that's only 1 fact for gvg, i could come with some for HA and RA too....

However , the general idea of your post is fine , especially concerning how FAIR pvp should be and how unfair it is at the moment , but weapon swapping and alliance battles points are a bit irrelevant ....

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 21, 2010, 06:43 PM // 18:43

I'd love to chime in on the capitalism vs communism but I'm not sure my "infraction account" can handle it.

On the issue of AB all I have to say is: If it's not broken, don't fix it. Every "fix" Anet does seems to make the game worse. GG codex to name one.

superraptors · Nov 21, 2010, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

So, more general powercreep and more builds that let you mash your face on the keyboard to kill someone?

so ur suggesting watching paint dry is the better alternative.

nerfing every skill thats in the meta is a bad way to balance, a new meta will appear after meta and that will get nerfed too, whats the point?

drkn · Nov 21, 2010, 08:46 PM // 20:46

The point is that the ultimate balance in GW1 is an unobtainable utopian vision due to flaws in its mechanics. Secondary classes are to blame the most. Even if you power up all the unused crap to the level of current meta, there still will be THE most powerful build that will eventually form meta, making unused crap, well, staying unused crap. And in response to that, heals/prots, general defence, will have to get buffed to be useful at all, instead of getting 20 sec matches.
There's no way to achieve balance now - only good thing that can be done is constantly changing the meta by nerfing the currently overpowered, meta builds and buffing unused, crappy things to get new meta. Rinse and repeat every other month.
Or balance the game's mechanics out first - do something with how secondaries work and the maps for the beginning, and consider what else, besides skills, disrupt the balance.

Morphy · Nov 21, 2010, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Lol, I'm glad Anet doesn't listen to your kind of people. Removing weapon swapping from the game? Seriously?

Skye Marin · Nov 21, 2010, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Here are the facts:

Bad spelling means that nobody will take you seriously.
PvP doesn't have as many people playing because the game is six years old, and is nearly impenetrable by any new players. Team formation has always been an issue.
To simply be effective requires knowledge of thousands of skills and what they do, a team of players who share the same knowledge, and patience and time to sink into playing matches.
TA was bad. There was no way skills could be balanced around it, and adding it in again would be a waste, and wouldn't affect syncers in the slightest.
Codex was a good idea, but was too little, too late. The rewards are not worth it, team formation is still an issue, and with the skill cycle, you could be in a small streak and get kicked out.
Frequent skill updates take a lot of time and resources that they are not able to devote to the game.
Power creep does not automatically make the game more fun, or more people want to take up PvP.
Nerfing meta skills is a great way to balance when your resources are limited.
Players who put in the effort to find a way to group up and get skilled deserve to win the most.

Basically, if you're going to suggest anything, it needs to be something very easy to implement that will make things more accessible. If more players are playing, there is a better chance for current players to win because they will not be the newbs anymore. Suggesting something like power creep does make things more accessible, but doesn't fix the issue, because it only teaches players to play easy builds. New players don't build up the skills they will need if and when their build gets nerfed.

Here's a good example:
The queue on the Kurzick side for AB is too long because there are too many players on that side. If players were able to swap faction between the two types, they could simply choose the side with less players. People with lore concerns can read the resolution to that here:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...FA,_JQ,_and_AB

*lemming* · Nov 21, 2010, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

The point is that the ultimate balance in GW1 is an unobtainable utopian vision due to flaws in its mechanics. Secondary classes are to blame the most. Even if you power up all the unused crap to the level of current meta, there still will be THE most powerful build that will eventually form meta, making unused crap, well, staying unused crap. And in response to that, heals/prots, general defence, will have to get buffed to be useful at all, instead of getting 20 sec matches.
There's no way to achieve balance now - only good thing that can be done is constantly changing the meta by nerfing the currently overpowered, meta builds and buffing unused, crappy things to get new meta. Rinse and repeat every other month.
Or balance the game's mechanics out first - do something with how secondaries work and the maps for the beginning, and consider what else, besides skills, disrupt the balance.

I'm not convinced you understand what "balance" means in the context of a competitive game.

drkn · Nov 21, 2010, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

I'm not convinced you understand what "balance" means in the context of a competitive game.

Vast pool of possibilities and builds that are on par with each other - A may win with B, be equal to C and die to D, circle round, to put it simply. General usefulness of every class and role. General usefulness of at least 80% of skills when compared to others. Not being forced to stick to a stagnant meta-ways in order to achieve something. Not letting one class to be used more often with someone else's main weapon than that class. Being able to proactively response to constantly changing 'meta' not because the devs meddle in skills, but because the game lets you run different equal and/or counter things by default, which naturally leads to player-made evolution of the meta. [added] Moreso, in state of balance, players are rewarded by their proactivity and play skill rather than taking a build and running it (creative and wise build making + general play skill > being good at BBway, for an example).
If 'balance' means something else for 'pr0 elitist PvPers of GW', enlighten us.

Morphy · Nov 21, 2010, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Competitive balance, as far as I know, is the possibility for good players to differentiate themselves from bad players. The more balanced a game is, the more this is possible. A perfectly balanced game is one where superior pkayers can beat inferior players regardless of their respective level of play (NB, this doesn't say anything about the builds they use). The boardgame Go is a game that comes close to perfect balance and afaik, the one that comes closest.

Your definition (if you can call it that) is a collection of statements, some of which can be deduced from my definition and some of which that can't or are inconsistent with it.