Curse

Tyla · Dec 15, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limu Tolkki

I cant see no point why someone would cartograph same areas more than once, or take grind titles for many chars. I think that every title should be account wide, but you would not get befits from cartocrapher or protector titles but you would have title however.

just do it on your title char /gg

~ Dan ~ · Dec 16, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Umm, this thread is on making grind titles account based. The distinction was made that titles like the two you mentioned are not grind titles. So, maybe edit and try again?

Orly? Well bilateralrope posted this:

Quote:

- Drunkard
- Sweet Tooth
- Treasure Hunter
- Wisdom

So these are grind titles? By grind i would only think of EOTN titles, as 1) They are needed to buy armour / weapons and 2) They are needed to strengthen PvE only skills (oh, about those.. they are optional, too). If you are saying Sweet frigging Tooth is a grind title that you absolutely don't want to grind twice, then where is this distinction?

So maybe rethink and try again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limu Tolkki

I cant see no point why someone would cartograph same areas more than once, or take grind titles for many chars. I think that every title should be account wide, but you would not get befits from cartocrapher or protector titles but you would have title however.

Yeah that sounds like a good idea. I would like r5 Champion without even taking part in a top 100 GvG please.

Get real. Wtf is the point in having a title saying "Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer (100%)" on a character who doesn't even have 10% explored. It makes no sense!

BlackSephir · Dec 16, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

So these are grind titles?

- Drunkard- buying alcohol and drinking it over and over- what's this, skillful mini-game?
- Sweet Tooth- same, but with sweet stuff. Repeat, repeat, repeat, in other words, grind, grind, grind.
- Wisdom and Treasure Hunter- "alright Billy, now you'll take golds from you 2 other chars and give them to your 'title' char so he can have Wisdom r2" and "here, thi is chest-run, y'know, you go, open chests and repeat"

Quote:

just do it on your title char /gg

Oh, cool, now we have retarded things like "title" chars?
/ggbye

Quote:

Get real. Wtf is the point in having a title saying "Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer (100%)" on a character who doesn't even have 10% explored. It makes no sense!

Maybe this part of your posts wouldn't be so retarded but then again if I remember correctly, I can make lvl 1 character and make him show Deadly Gladiator even though he hasn't done any pvp. IT MAKES NO SENSE, M I RITE?!
Or Friend of K/l too. Jesus, what a disaster.

legion_rat · Dec 16, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

- Drunkard- buying alcohol and drinking it over and over- what's this, skillful mini-game?
- Sweet Tooth- same, but with sweet stuff. Repeat, repeat, repeat, in other words, grind, grind, grind.
- Wisdom and Treasure Hunter- "alright Billy, now you'll take golds from you 2 other chars and give them to your 'title' char so he can have Wisdom r2" and "here, thi is chest-run, y'know, you go, open chests and repeat"

Oh, cool, now we have retarded things like "title" chars?
/ggbye

Maybe this part of your posts wouldn't be so retarded but then again if I remember correctly, I can make lvl 1 character and make him show Deadly Gladiator even though he hasn't done any pvp. IT MAKES NO SENSE, M I RITE?!
Or Friend of K/l too. Jesus, what a disaster.

I dont think the cartographer titles should count those are grind. you can do that with the first run through if you walk around and explore.

as for the others (gw:en included) I think they should be account based.

And Black Sephir thank you for making me smile today.

~the rat~

arcanemacabre · Dec 16, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

So these are grind titles? By grind i would only think of EOTN titles, as 1) They are needed to buy armour / weapons and 2) They are needed to strengthen PvE only skills (oh, about those.. they are optional, too). If you are saying Sweet frigging Tooth is a grind title that you absolutely don't want to grind twice, then where is this distinction?

So maybe rethink and try again?

*sigh*

I have defined grind (with reference to the grind titles) as something that you have to repeat on the same character until the achievement (title completion) is met. So yes, those are all grind titles, as are the rep titles, sunspear, and lightbringer. Kurzick/Luxon are not grind titles because there are alternate, non-grinding ways to max those (AB/FA/JQ - which all have unique experiences each time you do them, therefore not repetition). Double-clicking sweets, beer, and ID kits definitely falls into this category, though.

Titles like cartography, protector, vanquisher, skill hunter, etc. are not grind titles because you don't have to repeat anything on that character to acquire max ranks.

Good enough for you? Is it clear?

Solus Spartan · Dec 16, 2007, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Yes, the pre searing sweet and drunk titles would be ruined with this. So give the pre-searing characters a character based title for them until they reach post.

Defeats the purpose of your idea.

bilateralrope · Dec 16, 2007, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

Defeats the purpose of your idea.

Not really. The title is still account based for post searing characters. And the pre-searing people, who would have to put in a lot more work for the same titles, don't have their title devalued until (if) they hit post where the title devalues anyway.

Though to be honest I don't really care about the vanity titles too much. It's only when they get a gameplay effect (however minor) that I start caring.

Limu Tolkki · Dec 16, 2007, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Orly? Well bilateralrope posted this:
Yeah that sounds like a good idea. I would like r5 Champion without even taking part in a top 100 GvG please.

Get real. Wtf is the point in having a title saying "Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer (100%)" on a character who doesn't even have 10% explored. It makes no sense!

You have explored it or grinded it or played those GvG matches. Your account have done it, which means you have done it. Huh, r5 champion w/o taking part top GvG. But you have taken part in it, maybe another character but however you have!

Title chars you say? I only say legendary survivor and legendary defender of ascalon.

Tyla · Dec 16, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Oh, cool, now we have retarded things like "title" chars?
/ggbye

i ment your main character in general...some people like to call it whatever

~ Dan ~ · Dec 16, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

- Drunkard- buying alcohol and drinking it over and over- what's this, skillful mini-game?
- Sweet Tooth- same, but with sweet stuff. Repeat, repeat, repeat, in other words, grind, grind, grind.
- Wisdom and Treasure Hunter- "alright Billy, now you'll take golds from you 2 other chars and give them to your 'title' char so he can have Wisdom r2" and "here, thi is chest-run, y'know, you go, open chests and repeat"

You could apply that to every title then. Protector is grinding the mission over and over till you get masters. Cartographer is grinding for ages hugging walls. Etc etc. See? Now you'll want EVERY title account wide. The laziness is astounding.

They are completely optional. They in no way effect gameplay, so why is there so much QQing to make all titles except EOTN reputation tracks account wide?!

Quote:

Maybe this part of your posts wouldn't be so retarded but then again if I remember correctly, I can make lvl 1 character and make him show Deadly Gladiator even though he hasn't done any pvp. IT MAKES NO SENSE, M I RITE?!
Or Friend of K/l too. Jesus, what a disaster.

The account, has won TA matches. You have that PvP skill. But that character does not have the whole map explored from the moment you click "create character". It does not have HM completed. It has not stood and drunk 4392075 ales.

This is why they are character specific.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Kurzick/Luxon are not grind titles because there are alternate, non-grinding ways to max those (AB/FA/JQ - which all have unique experiences each time you do them, therefore not repetition).

Fail. You are repeating those 3 things again and again. The objective never changes, there is no "unique experience". Whether a wammo is confronting you in AB or a cripshot, you still have to cap the dam shrines. That is repitition.

Quote:

Titles like cartography, protector, vanquisher, skill hunter, etc. are not grind titles because you don't have to repeat anything on that character to acquire max ranks.

If you fail the mission, you repeat it again and again till you get masters. Skill hunter, is killing bosses over and over again. Vanquisher is killing mobs over and over again. They don't vary much, you can take the same H/H setup and roll all mobs / bosses. So you see, by the majority's definition in this thread, all titles are grind based.

Quote:

Good enough for you? Is it clear?

No that was pretty baed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limu Tolkki

You have explored it or grinded it or played those GvG matches.

Yes great. So you think that creating a lvl1 who has everything revealed and everything completed is the way to go? Or if not, displaying "Canthan Explorer (60%)" on a frigging char that only has 0.5% explored is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid!

It defeats the point of roleplaying.

Limu Tolkki · Dec 16, 2007, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Yes great. So you think that creating a lvl1 who has everything revealed and everything completed is the way to go? Or if not, displaying "Canthan Explorer (60%)" on a frigging char that only has 0.5% explored is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid!

It defeats the point of roleplaying.

See my earlier posts. I said give the title, no benefit from it. So you would still have to complete missions to go further in game and explore map to see things in it. But however you would have the title under your name if you have got them with another char. F***ing stupid is that you have to do these thing multiple times to get ls or ldoa for your main char...

arcanemacabre · Dec 16, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Fail. You are repeating those 3 things again and again. The objective never changes, there is no "unique experience". Whether a wammo is confronting you in AB or a cripshot, you still have to cap the dam shrines. That is repitition.

If you fail the mission, you repeat it again and again till you get masters. Skill hunter, is killing bosses over and over again. Vanquisher is killing mobs over and over again. They don't vary much, you can take the same H/H setup and roll all mobs / bosses. So you see, by the majority's definition in this thread, all titles are grind based.

You can't possibly be that dense. Perhaps hardheaded? If the experience is different, no matter how slight, it is not repetition, and therefore not grind. If you fail the mission, and have to re-do it, that is your bad, the game didn't force you to fail (unless there was a bug or something). It is quite possible to do the mission on the first try, in which case, there is no need to repeat. This isn't rocket science. Seriously.

BlackSephir · Dec 16, 2007, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

You could apply that to every title then. Protector is grinding the mission over and over till you get masters. Cartographer is grinding for ages hugging walls. Etc etc. See? Now you'll want EVERY title account wide. The laziness is astounding.

Quote:

No that was pretty baed.

Okay people, dan lost an argument becuase he had (still has :d) no idea what grind is, even though it was explained to him so that even retarded amoeba would get it. Can we move on? I believe we're past the 'explain what's grind' part.

Quote:

The account, has won TA matches. You have that PvP skill. But that character does not have the whole map explored from the moment you click "create character". It does not have HM completed. It has not stood and drunk 4392075 ales.

Hahah, yer funnah :D Y'know, you can apply your little 'logic' to every title. Watch meh.
'The account has explored GW world. You know the GW world and its continents. Therefore, this account's characters are Explorers'.
Of course, nobody was talking about making EXPLORER account based, but hey! Day without a strawman is a lost day, eh?

freekedoutfish · Dec 16, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

If you fail the mission, you repeat it again and again till you get masters. Skill hunter, is killing bosses over and over again. Vanquisher is killing mobs over and over again. They don't vary much, you can take the same H/H setup and roll all mobs / bosses. So you see, by the majority's definition in this thread, all titles are grind based.

So by your reasoning every aspect of the game is grind?

Tell me one aspect of the game which doesnt require or take repetition to complete if you fail it the first time or some aspect which isnt the same everytime you replay it!

Does that mean every aspect of the game should be account based?

If you find every location with your lvl20, highly experienced wammo who has played through the game and earnt those locations. Should you then be able to create a lvl1 elemental and teleport then instantly to an end location because your wammo found it!

By your logic yes! Because it saves you finding a location you already found on 1 or more characters.

Should the same apply to playing polymock everytime to unlock certain pve only skills? If you win them on one characters then all your characters get them! The same for norn tournament.

Lets say your wammo has access to Duncan because he played through all the first few slavers dungeons. Should you lvl10 elemental be able to access Duncan because your wammo has done all those previous dungeons?

Should your lvl10 elemental have all the missons and quests of a campaign automatically completed because your lvl20 wammo has already done them?

Should your lvl10 elemental instantly get the same elder pola bear your spent ages leveling up with your lvl20 wammo because you dont want to do it again?

Should your lvl10 elemental get primevil armor becaue your lvl20 wammo already has it and you dont want to repeat all the same content to get access to it?

By your reasoning, anything that has to be repeated or which is identical everytime you play it should be account based. That would include every aspect of pvp and pve.

That would mean when you create a new pve character you have access to everything. Every locaton, full exploration, all skills (pve only and the rest) without having to buy them, ever armor that your other chars own (but for that profession), every mission and quest completed.

So tell me... what is left to do? Everything in now all account based and every new char you create has everything your other characters does from the start.

Why play? whats to earn or unlock or achieve?

My point is you cant define grind as being anything and everything that requires repetative action! What computer game do you know that doent ask you to repeat the same stuff over and over again everytime you play?

Whether it be an MMO, RPG, FPS or RTS!

I agree some titles should be account based. But not because they require you to do the same thing over and over on each character. But because they have such high max levels.

Levels which would take staggering hours to achieve, and which is unreasonable to ask for on each individual char.

Titles like drunk'n, sweat tooth and faction titles are perfect examples of title with huge levels which takes weeks and months to achieve.

How ever GWEN titles and LB and SS do not takes long times to max out or to reach levels which make pve only skills effective. LB and SS titles are very easily maxed out within just a couple of weeks of farming.

GWEN title you reach rank 5-8 easily and by which time pve only skills are very effective.

Your all being far too vague with your idea of grind and what is acceptable and unacceptble for an individual characters. To talk about repetition being a bad thing is daft because every aspect of the game has to be repeated at some point or another. Whether it be 2 time or 10 before you get that end result.

You might have to repeat a very easy quest 10 times before you finish it due to some daft reason. Does that make it grind or just an inconvienence? Does that meaan that quest should be account based? Ofcourse not! Things arent meant to be easy, their meant to be a challenge.

MithranArkanere · Dec 16, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Things that can be done only once and just once should stay character based.

Making a mission, or a quest, earning a skill, revealing a part of the map... they are achievement tracks, not grind tracks.

The grind tracks are those that are acquired by earning points, and it doesn't matter where or when you earn those points.

You could say that 'achievement' are earned as 'blocks', like putting boxes inside a room.

And the grind titles are like fillng the room with water.

Each box is different, but all water drops are the same. The first point of a grind tracks is just like the last one.

In an achievement track, you can't make the same again and again to max it.

And that's why grind titles should be account based, at least after certain point.

For example, reaching 8 in Sunspear and the title turns account-based.
Same goes for lightbringer 4.
Reach 5 in the GW:EN titles, and the same.
Rank 1 or wisdom...
And so so on....

You 'grind' with one character, and the rest only earn a some of the points, so they do not start with the title, nor need to grind 'endlessly' like the first one you did so.

flclempire · Dec 16, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

/signed, I'm sick of having to smite with a 600 with my necro because she has 500+chests opened.

~ Dan ~ · Dec 16, 2007, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limu Tolkki

See my earlier posts. I said give the title, no benefit from it. So you would still have to complete missions to go further in game and explore map to see things in it. But however you would have the title under your name if you have got them with another char. F***ing stupid is that you have to do these thing multiple times to get ls or ldoa for your main char...

You fail to see my point. Please ffs, listen.

Why have a title for something you haven't achieved? Why have canthan explorer (60%) on a character who does not have 60 RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing percent explored?! They make sense to be character specific.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Okay people, dan lost an argument becuase he had (still has :d) no idea what grind is, even though it was explained to him so that even retarded amoeba would get it. Can we move on? I believe we're past the 'explain what's grind' part.

It is this whole thread that has moved away from GW:EN reputation titles. They are the true grind titles. So what if you don't have sweet tooth maxed on two chars? It is optional. It effects nothing gameplay wise. You stood there and pointlessly double-clicked constantly, so just don't do it again! There is no need to have that title once, let alone twice.

It's just becoming pure laziness. If you want something (again) do it (again) or stfu and go play your title char (as tyla put it).

Quote:

'The account has explored GW world. You know the GW world and its continents. Therefore, this account's characters are Explorers'.

Yep that's great, let's work with this idea. So now that the player himself is an explorer, all his newly created characters should have the whole continent explored, correct?

Explain the fairness please. Explain how that is actually roleplaying, in that you can travel instantly to DoA with a lvl1. But then you reply with crap "yea well er.. just give the title but not the benefit". Do you see a point in that? No, honestly, do you? Why the hell would you want a character specific title on a character who hasn't even done it?????????

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

another long wall of text that makes no sense

Let's take one part of it, as i cba to waste my time with all that crap.

Quote:

If you find every location with your lvl20, highly experienced wammo who has played through the game and earnt those locations. Should you then be able to create a lvl1 elemental and teleport then instantly to an end location because your wammo found it!

By your logic yes! Because it saves you finding a location you already found on 1 or more characters.

No, not by my logic. By the logic of the title. The title Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer (100%) says you have explored the whole of the factions campaign and therfore could travel wherever. But then.. that wouldn't be fair on other newly create chars, so you should just get the title but not the benefit according to Limu Tolkki, yes? But then why put a title on if you haven't even done it?

All of you have basically made me repeat myself because you cannot answer the logical question. Maybe you skim through and don't see it, so i'll put it here for you:

Why have a title displayed on a character who hasn't actually achieved it? You don't even want the benefits for it anyway! You just want to say "hey look people of shing jea monastery! my lvl1 warrior has 100% of cantha explored! but i can't actually travel to the outposts i've supposedly explored! good eh??" Yes because it all makes sense, doesn't it? There really doesn't seem to be a valid point to have a grind title such as cartography given to all your chars because you're too lazy to do it again.

I'll /sign the petition for GW:EN reputation titles, because needing to grind just to see armour was out of order. And because that is actually a reason to want/need the title, but not wanting to grind again is fair. But wanting nearly every title account based is just laziness.

ANET made some titles account based and some character specific - and that decision was correct. Excluding the (un)lucky titles, all account based ones are PvP. That makes sense though. PvP titles are reflecting the player's skill. PvE titles are reflecting what that role-playing character has achieved. That is how it should stay.

Isileth · Dec 16, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Why have a title for something you haven't achieved?

Because the player has achieved it. Its the same player behind all their chars.

legion_rat · Dec 16, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Because the player has achieved it. Its the same player behind all their chars.

well said.

There are what a handfull of titles that should not be included
LDOA
Survivor
Cartographers
Missions

Maybe (MAYBE) drunkard and sweet tooth.

all the rest, ss, lb, norn, asura, dwarf, faction are ALL grind. Faction is already account based why not the rest?

~the rat~

~ Dan ~ · Dec 16, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Because the player has achieved it. Its the same player behind all their chars.

Their new lvl1 character has not achieved 100% canthan cartographer (although wearing it) which is the reason they can't map everywhere. That's where the fail in logic is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion_rat

well said.

There are what a handfull of titles that should not be included
LDOA
Survivor
Cartographers
Missions

Someone earlier mentioned cartographer to be account based (thus calling it a grind title). Which it is - you're repeatedly hugging walls, whether or not the colour of the wall differs from the next doesn't add variety.