Curse

Phoenix Tears · Nov 11, 2007, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

So tell me, what would happen if they made LB, SS, Norn, Asura, Vanguard and Drawf titles account based?

Thats right.. you get 6 instantly maxed titles on all your characters from creation! The minute you create one, they are a KOABD right from the start.

You are inherantly making KOABD account based, but making more and more pve titles account based! A title they dont deserve because that character hasnt even set foot outside of a town or outpost or even killed anything.

I can sign this only ever and ever again, people stop beign so god damn selfish >.>
Why do people think ever, only because something should be account wide, what a player has made first with his/her main character is less worth, when being account wide on all characters of the account ...

I've get now x free titles too all my characters of my account, because I'm with my main character KOABD, then this doesn't change anything, that the player behind the account is worth this title for his ACCOUNT...with which character he showsa now this title, is somewhat of total regardless, the player made the title once and will be also worthy to show the title.
If i as worthy player of KOABD show this title now to others with my character A, B or X is and will be ever absolute irrelevant. important is ONLY the FACT, that the player behind the Account made the title at least once and that should make the player worthy to show the title for his Account, regardless with which character I want to do this ...

Stop doing to act like, as if each character of an account would be like an own personality....-.- Important is only the Account, not the x thousand characters on it .... theres only 1 personality, and thats the player and keeper of the Account and no one else.

Titles should be a long term motivation YES!!, but no senseless stupid grind ,where you have to do everything senseless with every of your characters again and again,, when you still have done all the stuff once with your main character ...

Playing the Game with more then 1 character should be FUN, not the biggest grindfest for titles, on the whole MMO history .... and Fun means to me, that I've to do the important things only once with my main character for the whole account.
Therefore counts also the whole Hall of Monuments issue .... it makes no sense to complete them x times with all of your characters, when an account wide HoM would make 1000 times more sense for the gameplay of GW

pumpkin pie · Nov 11, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

The thing is, say a player is extremely experience at playing a monk, and by playing that monk profession/character said player has achieve a lot of chest open, earn lots of gold, experience lots of stuffs, that does not automatically means said player is also going to be good at playing warrior, ranger, elementalist, mesmer, ritualist, dervish, paragon, assassin or necromancer. said player achieve all those from playing a monk, that does not mean said player can do the same thing with any other character of other profession as good as said player can play a monk.

if you want to show off your KOABD , do it with the character that has earn it and not on any other character that has not earn it.

all profession has different type of skills, build, and way of playing them just because a player is skill at playing one type of profession does not automatically qualify them to flash their KOABD on all type of profession/characters.

freekedoutfish · Nov 11, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Wow, lvl 1 character has KoaBD and... and what? Big, fat nothing. Just shows that some player managed to max soe titles on other characters.
"Omg, look mommy, that ele is lvl 1 ad he's already glad 3, do something!"

I'm going to ask again so you'll understand it fish- some guy has KoaBD on his lvl 1 char- so what?

thats point! KOABD means something now to thee individual. Allow any character to show it and it meaans nothing!

Isileth · Nov 11, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Thats exactly why this is only for grind titles pumpkin. Those titles dont show any skill with a proffesion.
How is being drunk more challenging on a monk than a ranger?
How is jumping into a wurm for LB/SS different for an ele than a necro?

Thats the point of this change, skill less grind doesnt need to be repeated on every char because by getting it on one you have already done exactly what you will do on any other char.

Something like protector or cart does change depending on what proffesion you are playing.

*edit*

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

thats point! KOABD means something now to thee individual. Allow any character to show it and it meaans nothing!

How is it any character? Only those who have achieved the required number of titles can show it.
Its the same person behind all the chars, it doesnt matter they are on their monk instead of their ranger. They still completed the titles.

If it makes no sense for titles then what about storage? It doesnt make sense your lvl1 can have 1,000s of gold, or a perfect weapon etc.

The point is its the person playing who plays and it should be the person playing that titles are tied to simply because its they who have achieved it.

pumpkin pie · Nov 11, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Thats exactly why this is only for grind titles pumpkin. Those titles dont show any skill with a proffesion.
How is being drunk more challenging on a monk than a ranger?

the thing is players want to achieve everything NOW, thats why they grind, to me none of the title listed in the OP are grind if you honestly enjoy and play the game. you will get it sooner or later without having to grind, instead by enjoying and playing the game. if it means nothing and has no effect why are there so many player grinding to get it? you will get it when you get it by enjoying/playing the game.

Yes, there is a different, playing a ranger to get all the alcohol consumable, and playing a monk to get all the alcohol consumable are totally different experience. The problem is most players are only comfortable with playing one single profession for farming and depends a lot on that character to get everything, and give it to the rest of the character. and by doing that its repetitive, thus becomes a grind. if you do things the way it was meant to be done you have totally different experiences and its not a grind at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

How is jumping into a wurm for LB/SS different for an ele than a necro?

As I remember I did not get sunspears and lightbringers point by jumping into wurms alone. Jumping into wurms comes much much later if I remember the game correctly. If you choose only to jump into wurms to get the lightbringers and sunspears points, thats your problem, you choose it, there are so many other aspect of the game that you can play and enjoy to get the titles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Thats the point of this change, skill less grind doesnt need to be repeated on every char because by getting it on one you have already done exactly what you will do on any other char.

Simple, if you don't feel like repeating don't get the title. and its not exactly the same as what your other character does, if you are only going to use just that one single character to farm everything then maybe, but all my character earn all their title themselves, whichever character gets a gold, that character will identify it and not another character.

Like I said before, if you are the one who choose to grind then, please don't whine. Play the game and enjoy it.

BlackSephir · Nov 11, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

thats point! KOABD means something now to thee individual. Allow any character to show it and it meaans nothing!

Quote:

KOABD means something

Quote:

something

Yeah? What is that "something"? What's so awesome about KoaBD?

Isileth · Nov 11, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Thats kind of the point of this change, we dont want to have to grind them.

Yes you can get the titles over time, thats nice. But then you have to go and do it again if you want it on another, and then again if you want it on another, and the again if you want it on another, and then again if you want it on another...

The point is, I am the one who did it. My char didnt go and do it all by himself, I did it. Yet I have to do it again for my others?

By your argument should be stop people passing items between chars? Because thats was aquired by char x and not char y right?

The player got that drop. The player plays the game. The player achieves the titles.

As for none of the titles being grind. You dont think drunkard or sweet tooth are gind? Thats all they are. There is 0 skill involved.

Most of the others still require specific enemies to be killed over and over. It doesnt matter if you do it over a day or 2 years, its still grind.

pumpkin pie · Nov 11, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

don't you need to like go out of town kill something to get gold to buy alcohol to drink to get the drunken title? ale and rice wine do not drop from the sky last i check.

Isileth · Nov 11, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

And that means it all has to be done by the same char? Or that going out and farming or grinding for gold makes it any less of a grind?

pumpkin pie · Nov 11, 2007, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Like I said before, if you are the one who choose to grind then, please don't whine. Play the game and enjoy it.

to me, none of the title is a grind, if you don't think they are worth repeating to get why get them. stick to one character.

Aera Lure · Nov 11, 2007, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Thats kind of the point of this change, we dont want to have to grind them.

But I think THAT is the point and always has been. PvP titles are cross-account and PvE titles not, generally speaking. Want to amass a collection of titles on a particular character? Need to do them on that character. Its not really intended for anyone to gain very high ranks of KoaBD on multiple characters, but the option is of course there. PvE titles have acceptable functionality at the levels you get them simply by playing a character. A desire to max them on multiple characters is indeed work and ought to be.

I retired once, permanently I thought, specifically due to titles not being cross-account, so I have sympathy. I've since come back and decided my monk is the only one to amass titles in one location and have any progress on KoaBD. Other characters simply see play as I desire, may aim for one maxed PvE title or two if appropriate. Having come back with that outlook has changed how I feel about the subject.

I do think the Treasure Hunter track should be cross-account, as well as Wisdom. I do agree with that. Not so SS/LB and the Reputation PvE tracks. They should remain character-specific, as should Cartographer, Guardian, Vanquisher obviously. Drunkard and Sweet Tooth do make more sense being character-specific but one could make a case either way. Its far, far too late for Anet to make any tweaks to what is global and what is not now anyway though. Realize of course we're now simply debating something in a rhetorical manner. Its not going to be changed.

Isileth · Nov 11, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

While it is perhaps late in the day to be making such changes GW still has plenty of time left in it. GW2 is still a way off, after that GW will continue to run. Changes, especially smaller ones such as this, would still serve a purpose if they help to keep people active and interested in GW.

Aera Lure · Nov 11, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

While it is perhaps late in the day to be making such changes GW still has plenty of time left in it. GW2 is still a way off, after that GW will continue to run. Changes, especially smaller ones such as this, would still serve a purpose if they help to keep people active and interested in GW.

Its not too late to make a change due to GW life. Not what I meant. GW runs as long as GW2 does, since the two are linked via the HoM and the ability to go back and unlock something for a given character in GW2, if one desires.

Its too late for Anet to make changes to what is global and what isnt due to players investing the time to develop the non cross-account titles on multiple characters that they wished to have. A lot of time, depending on what specifically. They simply wont go there, so to speak.

Isileth · Nov 11, 2007, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Well they wouldnt loose that time. As it wouldnt remove the titles from them.

All it would do is let those who have achieved it on at least one char get it for all.

The only problem would be the people who think because they did it everyone else should have to. Is that enough reason not to? I dont think so.

I had to complete proph with only proph skills, everyone else should have to.
I never had a car I had to walk 20 miles to work, everyone else should have to.
I never had a nice thermal jacket when I went to the north pole, no one else should have one.

Things change. I could understand if it removed titles from people. But it doesnt.

Aera Lure · Nov 11, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Well they wouldnt loose that time. As it wouldnt remove the titles from them.

They wouldnt have invested significant time over a year or more now in many cases to develop certain titles on multiple characters. A change right near the coming forth of a new title makes some sense sure, but after all this time it does not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

All it would do is let those who have achieved it on at least one char get it for all.

Too easy for many titles, not relevant for most others: Protector/Guardian on a monk is not Protector/Guardian on another profession. Cartographer on one character as the map is unfogged makes sense; Cartographer on another character with the map still fogged does not. Asura rank for completing the game and developing the title makes sense; Asura rank for not yet having started EotN does not. Etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

The only problem would be the people who think because they did it everyone else should have to. Is that enough reason not to? I dont think so.

It is. That is the point of character-specific titles. That and many of the non-PvP titles make no sense being cross-account (see above).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

I had to complete proph with only proph skills, everyone else should have to.
I never had a car I had to walk 20 miles to work, everyone else should have to.
I never had a nice thermal jacket when I went to the north pole, no one else should have one.

Having multiple chapters leads to more options on the way to play the game. This was always the game model and an additional reason to own more than one chapter.

Bill Gates made his money on his efforts, but I had no such luck. I'm not rich so we should change the system? You dont NEED all that money, but I agree with you it would be nice to have. Your car and jacket examples are statements of the same sort and dont really have any more relevance than mine.

I am not someone who pursues titles on multiple characters to any degree. Cant see any changes outside of perhaps Wisdom or Treasure Hunter as being either logical or fair. We can agree to disagree. I'd be shocked beyond anything I have seen in GW if they in fact tweaked anything beyond those two titles, stunned into disbelief really. Doubt enough they'd even tweak Treasure Hunter or Wisdom.

freekedoutfish · Nov 11, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

How is it any character? Only those who have achieved the required number of titles can show it.
Its the same person behind all the chars, it doesnt matter they are on their monk instead of their ranger. They still completed the titles.

If it makes no sense for titles then what about storage? It doesnt make sense your lvl1 can have 1,000s of gold, or a perfect weapon etc.

The point is its the person playing who plays and it should be the person playing that titles are tied to simply because its they who have achieved it.

You could be a really great warrior and deserve KOABD and be a rubbish monk and not. Its missleading to snow KOABD on a character who hasnt earned it because it suggests they have skill and/or experience with that profession.

Also dont use the pvp arguement of "they make pvp title account based and lvl1s can show such and such", because thats pvp and not pve. We're debating pve titles here, not pvp. Their completely different things.

PvE is individual to the character.

PvP is individual to the player.

Isileth · Nov 11, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Too easy for many titles, not relevant for most others: Protector/Guardian on a monk is not Protector/Guardian on another profession. Cartographer on one character as the map is unfogged makes sense; Cartographer on another character with the map still fogged does not. Asura rank for completing the game and developing the title makes sense; Asura rank for not yet having started EotN does not. Etc.

Not all those titles would be changed. Protector and guardian for example wouldnt. Because they require skill to go and complete, and it changes for each char. Cartographer another that would remain per char.

Asura would change. Simply because its not a title that takes skill to get. It takes time or grind.

For example with protector you couldnt make it halfway through and then fail twice and still get it.

With the grind titles, with enough time no matter how bad you are you will get them. Even if you can only get 50 points before you die. Eventually you will get them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

They wouldnt have invested significant time over a year or more now in many cases to develop certain titles on multiple characters. A change right near the coming forth of a new title makes some sense sure, but after all this time it does not.

No they wouldnt have spent that time, but it wasnt in then.
It goes back to the whole "I never had a car thing". So they dont loose that time, simply because they didnt have the option then. If this change removed titles then yes it would be a waste. But they still have exactly the same titles (possibly even more). While they spent more time getting them they still have them.

As for people playing multiple char that want to spend the time getting titles on them all. They can still do what is required. If they want to spend a few weeks killing the same thing over and over, nothing is stopping them. Or if they want a whole 10,000 mins standing around clicking an icon everynow and then, that option still remains open to them.

But those who dont yet have still invested time and achieved any of the titles can show that they have achieved them even when they are on a different char.

Isileth · Nov 11, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You could be a really great warrior and deserve KOABD and be a rubbish monk and not. Its missleading to snow KOABD on a character who hasnt earned it because it suggests they have skill and/or experience with that profession.

Thats why only the grind titles and not any skill based ones would be subject to change.

Does having Incorrigible Ale-Hound show they really know how to play monk?
Does having Source of Wisdom show the necro knows what he is doing?
Does having Legendary Delver prove the warrior can play well?

At the end of the day KOABD doesnt show skill either, nor does the lack of it make we wonder if the player knows what they are doing. It can easily be made up of purely the grind titles.

*edit*

Sorry about that meant to edit my above post.

Aera Lure · Nov 11, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Asura would change. Simply because its not a title that takes skill to get. It takes time or grind.

With the grind titles, with enough time no matter how bad you are you will get them. Even if you can only get 50 points before you die. Eventually you will get them.

For PvE-skill-related titles only, want them maxed on multiple characters, you need to put in the work. You get them simply by finishing the the given campaign at a level high enough to be reasonably effective.

Reputation titles fall out around Asura 4, Norn 4, Dwarf 3, Vanguard 3, give or take a little bit, just by completing the campaign. You then have a book to apply to the track of your choice to get level 5. Two more books if you want to get any to level 8, each book taking 3-4 hours. You cannot possibly be trying to say that either level 5 in a given PvE skill title track yields a dysfunctional skill or that 8 hours is in anyway much effort to get a reasonably high ranked skill? Its a very similar story for LB/SS in Nightfall.

That's good enough, UNLESS you are trying to max them all for the purposes of KoaBD, in which case 6 of them for free (SS/LB inclusive) for all characters on create once you complete them once on any character is outright silly. A lazy request even. I can see some complaints about Treasure Hunter and Wisdom, but come on. You are simply asking for six free maxed titles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

No they wouldnt have spent that time, but it wasnt in then.
It goes back to the whole "I never had a car thing". So they dont loose that time, simply because they didnt have the option then. If this change removed titles then yes it would be a waste. But they still have exactly the same titles (possibly even more). While they spent more time getting them they still have them.

You are again simply asking for six nearly free maxed titles. Simply wont happen. I cant believe anyone could even find an argument for supporting the idea.

Isileth · Nov 11, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

But they arent free maxed titles. I had to work for them. Thats the key point here.

It was me controlling my char, it was me putting in the time. Yet the reward is tied to the char.

As for it being a fairly short time to get them its really not. Even after finishing the game (doing all the side quests like I did) my highest was R6 (with 2 books handed in after the change to higher rewards). The others are R3-5.

To get just 1 maxed would take a good 5-10 hours. 30-60 hours for them all on 1 char. 150-300 to get them maxed on 5 chars (A lot of people will have more). Also 5-10 is low just to avoid any arguments over that time taken, according to the wiki you can get about 3k an hour in Dalada Uplands making Ebon a good 30+ hours.

Now I dont know about you, but that doesnt seem quick to me.

Now perhaps if the titles required some extremely hard quest or something challenging and fun I wouldnt mind putting that time in. But it isnt. Its 150-300 hours of pure grind. Have I not already proved im able to achieve them when its done on 1 char?

So no, im not asking for a free title. Im asking to be able to display something that ive achieved.