Curse

krokos · Jan 09, 2011, 10:33 AM // 10:33

"Destructive was glaive is far too overpowered for normal mode and allows people to do mindless domain of anguish runs with no more skill required than ursan.

needs to be nerfed. "

a bit QQing... many people get their gear and weps by doing DoA sc. Why do you care, if it needs skill in pve or not? Maybe just nerfi it in pvp, but not pve. Skill is used in pvp.

Hanok Odbrook · Jan 09, 2011, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

You don't seem to have any idea what I was getting at with that post. I was criticizing people who bitch for nerfs to shit that isn't really strong.

I did get it - I was just actually adding to it because that's usually what you also hear from the people screaming "nerf."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

So, what you're saying is that "elite areas" should be easy, just because casuals want to play badly and still get through this content? To be honest, elite areas aren't even difficult. PvE in general is easy. There is no excuse whatsoever to dumb it down ever further. You merely have the proper skill bars, and common sense, and the ability to not constantly do retarded shit. As it is, even a lobotomized kid with down's syndrome can do elite areas in normal mode. Thinking it should get even easier says quite a bit about you.

I want obby armor and chaos gloves so I can be a tool just like everyone else. Should it just be handed to me? Of course not. It's just preposterous to think that just because someone wants something it should be handed to them. The effort it takes to complete elite areas in this game is laughable. The only issue is finding people to play with, and making areas piss-easy is going to do jack shit about that.
Yeah, the thing to do for people seeking a greater challenge is to dumb it down to the point where it isn't a challenge, just so it's accessible to them. BRILLIANT!

No, I am not saying that. Indeed PvE is fairly simple overall (that's been part of the problem all along - it was never properly realized to be able to have elite areas because PvP was supposed to be the elite/endgame areas with their own levels of learning and training). What I am saying is that since GW can provide options for varying levels of difficulty, which they have done already by adding HM and Elites, then why not do so for those players who don't yet have that ability to complete those areas as is now. I'm not talking about dumbing them down or making them easier in NM or HM, except for my previous suggestion for eliminating DP and the Kick on Wipe mechanics in NM only. This would only be because I assume it would be quicker and take less resources to implement than it would to create a separate "Easy Mode" for these areas.

Nothing about the NM and HM versions of these areas would change, except perhaps to toughen them up if so desired, and of course increase the rewards proportionally for those players who deem such things important. I personally find rewards secondary to my purpose of playing the game in the manner which I find most fun and creating a challenge level of my own choosing, which is why I generally play with less than ideal character builds, and only rudimentary Hero builds. Hence the quote I use occasionally (when I remember and/or the mods don't delete it): "Self-control is a wondrous thing. Just because there's an Easy Button doesn't mean you have to use it." My favorite games to play are the ones that offer the most options for playing. It gives me the chance to really dig in a face a tough challenge when I want one, and also to faceroll levels when I just need some fun and stress relief. Since GW has that capability, I would naturally like to see it implemented.

This isn't handing anything to anybody, although I personally don't care if we did, because that would have no effect on how I play the game, nor have any impact on my self-worth either. As a bonus that would put the Gold Farmers out of business, though. There are plenty of examples of this in single-player games where there are several modes of difficulty for progressing through the game, many of which can be changed for each level/mission or what have you. We see it in sports all the time - there's Single A baseball, Double A, Triple A; Hockey has its farm system, etc. Each one can equate to a higher level difficulty and skill. A player can be "Elite" in Single A, but he still may not have the skill required to be an "Elite" player in the Majors. We would just be doing the same thing for the elite areas - they would be "dumbed down" when compared to NM and HM, but they would still be more difficult than say the Great Northern Wall, Minister Cho's Estate, or Chabek Village.

Hanok

Xiaquin · Jan 09, 2011, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Supporting balance is one thing, but wanting to nerf something that isn't even good is another.

Yet it's used in NM SCs...I don't quite understand how this is ignored. If it's bad, it wouldn't be the meta way to clear an elite area, something else would take its place.

Icecream · Jan 09, 2011, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Why "nerf" something that's making people play together, nerf it and some people will probably stop playing, I don't mind people who takes the easy way getting cash flow. Nerf it and people will just find another way to do this, people are actually playing together now. Peace out!

Del · Jan 09, 2011, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Yet it's used in NM SCs...I don't quite understand how this is ignored. If it's bad, it wouldn't be the meta way to clear an elite area, something else would take its place.

Since when does a 1.5-2 hour run constitute a speed clear? This shit skill only sees play because of its simplicity.

Xiaquin · Jan 10, 2011, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icecream

Why "nerf" something that's making people play together, nerf it and some people will probably stop playing

These excuses are getting ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Since when does a 1.5-2 hour run constitute a speed clear? This shit skill only sees play because of its simplicity.

Well, my error, but it doesn't matter, it's not the time taken that makes a skill OP or not. Look at what the skill, by itself, does in terms of raw damage and how quickly and cheaply it can be used and reused. This is not complicated.

Boogz · Jan 10, 2011, 01:03 AM // 01:03

why exactly it should be nerfed? personally, I think it's a pretty good skill on the way it current is, it has uses on non-DoA clears. its just overused on DoA coz there's no other easymode option

Del · Jan 10, 2011, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

These excuses are getting ridiculous.

Your excuses against it are also pretty feeble.

Iron Smerf · Jan 10, 2011, 02:48 AM // 02:48

/signed.

This is becoming like ursan, just nerf it.

Swingline · Jan 10, 2011, 03:36 AM // 03:36

If they nerf this might as well nerf shadowform

Iron Smerf · Jan 10, 2011, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Why? Seriously.

Shadow Form:
- Requires timing
- Requires other skills to keep it up (anti-rupt, KD, etc)
- Requires BRAINS in order to use effectivly.
- You aggro the wrong thing, your dead.
- Requires at least some skill.
DwG:
- Pick up and drop
- Requires a keyboard or mouse

In short... DwG takes a lot less skill then Shadow form, and if anybody disagrees, talk to a DoA guild about tanking one of there runs

Lord Dagon · Jan 10, 2011, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Smerf

Why? Seriously.

Shadow Form:

- Requires timing
- Requires other skills to keep it up (anti-rupt, KD, etc)
- Requires BRAINS in order to use effectivly.
- You aggro the wrong thing, your dead.
- Requires at least some skill..

DwG:

- Pick up and drop
- Requires a keyboard or mouse

In short... DwG takes a lot less skill then Shadow form, and if anybody disagrees, talk to a DoA guild about tanking one of there runs

SF does not require brains to use. all you have to do is get an area you want to farm, take out most spell skills(only touch skills get in the way) and then bring some prot and damdge. Then you just aggro and maintain and its free money from there on. no skill.

DwG.. you have to
A. Have cooperation. without this you have no good build. any idiot can run thsi skill but if its no supported with others its really not that good.
B.Luck. really simply you have to be lucky to have something not kill you before you kill it. without this your essentially screwed and again.. the skill is useless.
So no DwG does not need a nerf if anything its SF based on your agruement.

Iron Smerf · Jan 10, 2011, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Ok so, your arguement is... DwG only takes luck and no skill, and SF is easy so nerf it? That doesnt really make sense but ok.. Your also forgetting that SF lets in ALL attacks now right? Get a ranger or warrior and thats GG. SF is not "easy" to run.

Lord Dagon · Jan 10, 2011, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Smerf

Ok so, your arguement is... DwG only takes luck and no skill, and SF is easy so nerf it? That doesnt really make sense but ok.. Your also forgetting that SF lets in ALL attacks now right? Get a ranger or warrior and thats GG. SF is not "easy" to run.

thats exactly it and SF stops alot of stuff(Eles, Necros, Smiting monks) from essentially doing anything but wanding you. What does DwG protect you from? nothing but the pure chance that you kill an enemy before it kills you.. like all balanced skilsl do.

Iron Smerf · Jan 10, 2011, 04:35 AM // 04:35

All balanced skills eh?

If that were true I could go kill mallyx with flare, before he and his spirits killed me.

Chocolate_Prayers · Jan 10, 2011, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Smerf

Why? Seriously.

Shadow Form:
- Requires timing
- Requires other skills to keep it up (anti-rupt, KD, etc)
- Requires BRAINS in order to use effectivly.
- You aggro the wrong thing, your dead.
- Requires at least some skill.
DwG:
- Pick up and drop
- Requires a keyboard or mouse

In short... DwG takes a lot less skill then Shadow form, and if anybody disagrees, talk to a DoA guild about tanking one of there runs

I love it when this happens.
Person 1 Posts in a "nerf skill A" thread, agreeing whole-heartedly for it's nerf.
Person 2 responds with "may as well nerf skill B too".

Person 1 then is highly defensive of their favorite skill (skill B) and does not want to see talk about it being nerfed, so produces a counter-argument stating that skill B requires more 'skillz' to use than skill A.

Now the same argument in a slightly different context

Person 1 and Person 2 have had a Traffic Collision, Person 1 was texting on their mobile phone while Person 2 was fiddling with the CD Player.

Person 1 starts condemning Person 2 for not keeping their eyes on the road.
Person 2 then responds stating that Person 1 should not have been texting on their mobile phone.
Person 1 then becomes highly defensive and claims that the text was highly important.

I mean seriously guys, that's what this thread has turned into.. a Traffic Collision... It's not even about the skill anymore, it's just about you guys seeing who can inflate their own ego to outshadow the other people that are heatedly debating their own opinions.

Swingline · Jan 10, 2011, 05:22 AM // 05:22

The whole point of what I said is if you want to nerf a skill that requires half a brain you may as well nerf the other skills that also require half a brain. SF is a 5 energy skill that makes half the other classes completely useless against you, but wait lets not stop there, get shield sets, cons and earth enchants and then your invincible against melee with no way to strip it. I've seen real mentally challenged people run perma quite well. Lets face it, SF is still a brain dead skill and unbalanced even after its so called, "nerf". Do you ever see balanced pug teams farming EOTN dungeons? No, because its 8 sins using a no brain method of running through all the mobs to the end boss and spiking him while he sits there looking useless, and did I forget to mention you did this in 25 minutes? Essentially I dont even know why this thread exists. DwG is used in DoA and thats it. SF is used in every dungeon as a solo or as 8 sins speed clearing it.

If you dont want your favorite skill nerfed then dont post in a thread saying another persons favorite skill should be nerfed as well. Both require the same amount of brain power as the other.

CrustyEarl · Jan 10, 2011, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Nerf is never a good solution yet it happens all the time. People want to play the game their way. If you nerf their toys they either find some other easy mode trick or leave. The only real skill in this game is in planning. Everything else is timing and twitch factor.

I never understood why people who don't like something try and take it away from others...

UnChosen · Jan 10, 2011, 06:20 AM // 06:20

In Normal Mode, any high damage AoE skills become no skill and no brain. In fact, unless you're playing a Monk or an interrupter (roles that requires reflex), almost every decent build would become "brainless" once players get used to it. Also, I personally see no difference in spamming DwG and randomly spamming a couple of other skills...for almost every build the "damage dealers" only have to spaming 1-2-3-4 in order, its not that much more difficult.

Kunder · Jan 10, 2011, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Nerfing the FotM farm is like playing popamole. The problem is with degenerate PvE areas that boil down to 'do lots AoE damage' and nothing but. Short of a total revamp of high end PvE on the order of the HM update, nothing else to be done is worthwhile. Unfortunately, I highly doubt Anet will be investing that much effort into fixing GW1 in the twilight of its years.