Curse

chuckles79 · Jun 28, 2010, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gondrakif

OP asks to nerf DwG because there is a team build that can complete DoA in NM using full consets within 1-2 hours... Hmmmm...

Let's leave aside the fact that builds exist which do same thing in HM in half that time and are give or take mindless too.

Well if you ask me the main problem about this team build isn't DwG but the imbagon. Sure the DwG guys do most of the damage but do you think they could even get to use half their skills without a guy from behind providing them with constant +100 armor? Without SY! the monks would explode (hence why it's so important to keep the paragon clean).

The core of the team is SY+2healers+5DamageDealers so if DwG is nerfed people will still be able to do it but they would have to use another build for damage and maybe just maybe the run will get a bit longer.

Bottom-line, if those DoA NM runs is what you want gone aim for the right skill to be nerfed...

Good Sir,
It appears that you MAY be suggesting that a nerf on SY is called for to correct NM DoA runs. On behalf of everyone who plays paragon, upon learning (my apologies if misconstrued) that you suggest making everyone's paragon a useless pile of steaming excrement, please Go Dick Cheney Yourself.

Sirius Bsns · Jun 28, 2010, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ungle

/signed

because you DWG nubs like to drop armbrace prices down, selling for cheaper and cheaper, making them hard to sell for those of us who have lots of them, and farm them with our guilds

This is exactly why newbs cry, and why I oppose nerfing anything at all. Because of this type of biasm.

Gondrakif · Jun 28, 2010, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

Good Sir,
It appears that you MAY be suggesting that a nerf on SY is called for to correct NM DoA runs. On behalf of everyone who plays paragon, upon learning (my apologies if misconstrued) that you suggest making everyone's paragon a useless pile of steaming excrement, please Go Dick Cheney Yourself.

If i wanted the DwG DoA runs gone i would indeed suggest such a thing, but i don't see a reason for those runs to be removed so i'm not suggesting it. I was merely sharing my opinion with the OP who wants them gone and has asked for the wrong skill to be changed.

On a side note i find it really weird that nerfing a warrior skill makes paragons useless..

pterodactyl · Jun 28, 2010, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ungle

/signed

because you DWG nubs like to drop armbrace prices down, selling for cheaper and cheaper, making them hard to sell for those of us who have lots of them, and farm them with our guilds

lol @ you.

no one is going to do anything to protect your precious loot from going down in price. why should they? are you aware of how economies work?

if you think a skill is overpowered, that's one thing. but suggesting a skill should be nerfed due to another reason, like because it's overused or it's allowing more people to get something they want, then that's just silly.

sthpaw · Jun 29, 2010, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gondrakif

OP asks to nerf DwG because there is a team build that can complete DoA in NM using full consets within 1-2 hours... Hmmmm...

Let's leave aside the fact that builds exist which do same thing in HM in half that time and are give or take mindless too.

Well if you ask me the main problem about this team build isn't DwG but the imbagon. Sure the DwG guys do most of the damage but do you think they could even get to use half their skills without a guy from behind providing them with constant +100 armor? Without SY! the monks would explode (hence why it's so important to keep the paragon clean).

The core of the team is SY+2healers+5DamageDealers so if DwG is nerfed people will still be able to do it but they would have to use another build for damage and maybe just maybe the run will get a bit longer.

Bottom-line, if those DoA NM runs is what you want gone aim for the right skill to be nerfed...

are you serious???
after the nerf to URSAN, SY imbagons were used BUT not it still not good enough to get DoA alive, that was the time when armbraces went up to 50e+, builds like this existed http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_DoA_Heroway and http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build%3ATe...oA_Physicalway but they were never pug meta, only done with guildies, I have only found afew pugs trying it but everyone i join has failed and failed badly.
so when I joined a DwG pug run for the first was amased how easy it was for pugs, it was just like ursan.

imo, as i have mentioned before either tone down DwG slightly or change DoA and FoW to make it as challenging as UW is.

Del · Jun 29, 2010, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gondrakif

OP asks to nerf DwG because there is a team build that can complete DoA in NM using full consets within 1-2 hours... Hmmmm...

Let's leave aside the fact that builds exist which do same thing in HM in half that time and are give or take mindless too.

Well if you ask me the main problem about this team build isn't DwG but the imbagon. Sure the DwG guys do most of the damage but do you think they could even get to use half their skills without a guy from behind providing them with constant +100 armor? Without SY! the monks would explode (hence why it's so important to keep the paragon clean).

The core of the team is SY+2healers+5DamageDealers so if DwG is nerfed people will still be able to do it but they would have to use another build for damage and maybe just maybe the run will get a bit longer.

Bottom-line, if those DoA NM runs is what you want gone aim for the right skill to be nerfed...

Don't forget about soul twisting.

Spiritz · Jun 29, 2010, 06:54 AM // 06:54

You know , i must be a complete idiot or something because in over 3 yrs of gw ive never yet felt the need/urge to get tormented weapons/ambraces or even actually do DOA on any of my chrs that have done NF.
Am i sitting around crying "its so unfair , dwg is op , anet nerf it !!! " dont think so as im doing other things within gw.
Players complained when DOA died down and the only people who used to farm DOA were usually considered elitists - now theres a way for almost anyone to get in a doa team and bring it back to life what happens ... people start crying.
Let people do what they want to do and get some enjoyment out of the game - may also cut down on the cryers who state gw is now a stale game and noone wants to pug .If you dislike dwg where does it state anywhere you have to use it or join a team with player(s) using it ?
BTW all those who cry at ambrace price dropping - do you also cry when ecto prices drop slightly ? lol

dancing gnome · Jun 29, 2010, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travaail

Destructive was glaive is far too overpowered for normal mode and allows people to do mindless domain of anguish runs with no more skill required than ursan.

needs to be nerfed.

Anyone who says DoA was a skilled part of the game prior to this is lying.

The builds I saw people run in DoA prior to DwG were Searing Flames eles and Shadow Form tanks - this was for HM speed clears done in around 1hr and 15 minutes, less time than a NM DwG run. This meant the tank took next to no damage and the eles were literally doing nothing more than pressing 1 and occasionally 2, 3 or 4.

Sure DoA can be played with school using balanced groups and non gimmick exploitative game mechanics, but it is a billion times harder and took significantly longer than the SF team builds, so that's what people used. Because people can do the gimmicky builds that complete the area in absurd times, the people who don't use those techniques are selling their rewards in a market that is rewarding certain gimmicks better than balanced play, thus decreasing balanced play rewards by a large margin.

Stop moaning because people are able to complete a normal mode run of DoA in more time than it takes brainless SC builds to do HM runs.

Yoshida Keiji · Jun 29, 2010, 11:52 AM // 11:52

If an elite area takes around 2hs to beat it, thats fine.

Say full run plus Mallyx.

But now, you want it require 4hs ... Then how many chances will I have to finish it? Maybe weekends? No thanks, I have a life out there.

Two hours with consets "Team Build" is fine.

And as I had said before. There still are plenty of FAIL PUG teams out there.

I really dont care Armbraces dropping to 25 ectos...

Common, its just a weapon´s skin. Why should a rare be around 175k? Aint that just too much?

And most people are just getting there because they can simply PLAY the game at DoA, not only because of farming.

own age myname · Jun 29, 2010, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthpaw

are you serious???
after the nerf to URSAN, SY imbagons were used BUT not it still not good enough to get DoA alive, that was the time when armbraces went up to 50e+, builds like this existed http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_DoA_Heroway and http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build%3ATe...oA_Physicalway but they were never pug meta, only done with guildies, I have only found afew pugs trying it but everyone i join has failed and failed badly.
so when I joined a DwG pug run for the first was amased how easy it was for pugs, it was just like ursan.

imo, as i have mentioned before either tone down DwG slightly or change DoA and FoW to make it as challenging as UW is.

You don't get it do you? Nerf DWG, it won't matter. People will just use the next caster spike...

As stated many times before UA+HB+Imba+Insert Caster Spike+NM = Win

Ungle · Jun 29, 2010, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Anyone who says DoA was a skilled part of the game prior to this is lying.

The builds I saw people run in DoA prior to DwG were Searing Flames eles and Shadow Form tanks - this was for HM speed clears done in around 1hr and 15 minutes, less time than a NM DwG run. This meant the tank took next to no damage and the eles were literally doing nothing more than pressing 1 and occasionally 2, 3 or 4.

Sure DoA can be played with school using balanced groups and non gimmick exploitative game mechanics, but it is a billion times harder and took significantly longer than the SF team builds, so that's what people used. Because people can do the gimmicky builds that complete the area in absurd times, the people who don't use those techniques are selling their rewards in a market that is rewarding certain gimmicks better than balanced play, thus decreasing balanced play rewards by a large margin.

Stop moaning because people are able to complete a normal mode run of DoA in more time than it takes brainless SC builds to do HM runs.

I know I'm going to catch hell once again, but I've got to call this guy out. DWG is much more mindless then the speedclears most guilds do, I joined a DWG run the other day, and it really is just run in bomb the shit out of stuff get UA'd and repeat. With "SF Tanks", tactics are actually played out, and we do specific pulls. To be honest now that shadowform lets in all attacks, we still take massive amounts of damage from anything that doesn't have spells. Seeing as we pull huge groups and kill them in two seconds, doesn't mean that we are just /facerolling (With exception of some TK bars), but that its just carefully played out with people who communicate on Vent and have played in these circumstances countless times.

Now troll me please.

toocooltang · Jun 29, 2010, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Anyone who says DoA was a skilled part of the game prior to this is lying.

The builds I saw people run in DoA prior to DwG were Searing Flames eles and Shadow Form tanks - this was for HM speed clears done in around 1hr and 15 minutes, less time than a NM DwG run. This meant the tank took next to no damage and the eles were literally doing nothing more than pressing 1 and occasionally 2, 3 or 4.

Sure DoA can be played with school using balanced groups and non gimmick exploitative game mechanics, but it is a billion times harder and took significantly longer than the SF team builds, so that's what people used. Because people can do the gimmicky builds that complete the area in absurd times, the people who don't use those techniques are selling their rewards in a market that is rewarding certain gimmicks better than balanced play, thus decreasing balanced play rewards by a large margin.

Stop moaning because people are able to complete a normal mode run of DoA in more time than it takes brainless SC builds to do HM runs.

Couple points.
1. DoAsc is much harder to do "fast" now I.E. sub 1 hour. The coordination and the tactics are very intricate and detailed. DoAsc isn't a pugging thing, even 8 people that know what they are doing and good at gildworz will have a hard time without any doasc experiance.
2.Using a balanced build doesn't take much longer than a SC setup actually. Most DoAsc runs are about an hour, so bordering on a 3 set run; balanced runs take about 1h20 so agian a 3 set run.
3. I have done both a HM and NM DWG run. Neither one require any tactics and due to the short recharge (3seconds) with cons. 5 rits can easisly sustain a high amount of DPS over time. Which really is the fundamental issue.

So in conclusion DwG isn't over powered in DoA its over powered anywhere with cons because for 5 nrg you can constantly spam ~100 dmg every 3 seconds. Both balanced doa runs and SC runs area all about applying huge amounts of damage over a short period of time to effectivly kill.

P.S. I agree with ungle

Essence Snow · Jun 29, 2010, 04:39 PM // 16:39

For SC's yes it takes some skill on part of the "Tanks"....rest of the group is meh...(stand here...ping... 1234)

100 dmg every 3 secs it not limited to dwg...and who needs that anyway when u can spike down entire groups in 2sec or less

I still can't believe some ppl are complaining that PuGs are able to do DoA NM...for crying out loud NM...wait what was that...oh yeah NM, using full Cons...in how long?...1.5hrs+? "Holy OPness Batman"....yes, I just made a corny OS Batman comment, but all this is just about as ridiculous as that is.

Granted the exp PuG group can run it in HM in roughly the same time....but then again the exp pug group could probably SC it too. Seeing if you have exp tanks for the SC then rest is...well...not all that complicated.

And lets not forget skipclears...."imagine" if dwg runs incorporated skipping.....end of the world type stuff right there....lol

Lithril Ashwalker · Jun 29, 2010, 05:22 PM // 17:22

how about /unsigned...because all you guys do when something is better than ur current profession u QQ... ur never satisfied...stfu...go complain about something like Ursan or UW.
forget armbraces...they are common, we all know u guys store armbraces just to sell em online anyway lol.

*requests to have thread closed*

Skyy High · Jun 29, 2010, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

Good Sir,
It appears that you MAY be suggesting that a nerf on SY is called for to correct NM DoA runs. On behalf of everyone who plays paragon, upon learning (my apologies if misconstrued) that you suggest making everyone's paragon a useless pile of steaming excrement, please Go Dick Cheney Yourself.

SY! should die, and it should come in the same update that buffs motivation. As long as the imbagon exists, paras are never going to have any decent builds that can compete with it in terms of party support.

own age myname · Jun 29, 2010, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

SY! should die, and it should come in the same update that buffs motivation. As long as the imbagon exists, paras are never going to have any decent builds that can compete with it in terms of party support.

Keep it for warriors though. Like link it to strength.

chuckles79 · Jun 29, 2010, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

SY! should die, and it should come in the same update that buffs motivation. As long as the imbagon exists, paras are never going to have any decent builds that can compete with it in terms of party support.

You do have to wonder why the best Paragon skill is not a Paragon skill. Anet needs to seriously address this. I know it's on the backburner because they won't be returning in GW2; but it's hard enough to get into elite areas even with an imbagon.

Either drastically buff the paragon in dmg output, give it tanking abilities, or buff shouts and chants to the point where DWG is child's stuff.

sthpaw · Jun 30, 2010, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

You don't get it do you? Nerf DWG, it won't matter. People will just use the next caster spike...

As stated many times before UA+HB+Imba+Insert Caster Spike+NM = Win

well you could do that as well and might as well nerf ST rits and ether renewal eles using prot bond, if paragons are buffed and dont have a need for SY, but if that is done imo it will resort people to using tank and spank again.

own age myname · Jun 30, 2010, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthpaw

well you could do that as well and might as well nerf ST rits and ether renewal eles using prot bond, if paragons are buffed and dont have a need for SY, but if that is done imo it will resort people to using tank and spank again.

Then DoA would be dead and you can hoard your cash? Nice solution. Let's just nerf anything that can clear an elite area while we're at it?

sthpaw · Jun 30, 2010, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Then DoA would be dead and you can hoard your cash? Nice solution. Let's just nerf anything that can clear an elite area while we're at it?

didnt you mention we should nerf SY cause DwG was not the main problem and i didnt get it? if SY wasnt like the alot of people will really feel that the paragon is a useless profession and thank goodness they are being worked on. the other skills i mentioned to be nerfed are the same function.
what i mentioned before was that DwG is mindless compared to other SY setups with DoA. doing a pug run and breezing through foundry pulling like 3 groups in the 3rd room (without a perma balling and no clean spikes) and not wiping to me means that dwg is pretty overpowered.