Curse

Jeydra · Feb 05, 2011, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Show me some non-anecdotal evidence on what the skill level of GW players are or how "difficult" GW is compared to other games and I would be more impressed - except of course I highly doubt such studies have been conducted.

@above - Your argument is shallow because I can easily make a case for buffing DShot to instantly kill targets if it interrupts (including in PvP, rofl), which unless you think is a good idea invalidates your argument.

Are you claiming that if ANet makes Base Defense available to all players the majority will not be happy?

What proof do you have that the majority don't think nerfing Shadow Form is a good idea?

vitorvdp_68 · Feb 05, 2011, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Show me some non-anecdotal evidence on what the skill level of GW players are or how "difficult" GW is compared to other games and I would be more impressed - except of course I highly doubt such studies have been conducted.

@above - Your argument is shallow because I can easily make a case for buffing DShot to instantly kill targets if it interrupts (including in PvP, rofl), which unless you think is a good idea invalidates your argument.

Are you claiming that if ANet makes Base Defense available to all players the majority will not be happy?

What proof do you have that the majority don't think nerfing Shadow Form is a good idea?

So you are comparing one shot kills to SF? In a lot of cases, you could say "lol it's just one monster you are killing, at least you aren't immune to spells".
Now think about something like Shards of Orr. 1 shot kill Fendi Nin. And PvP obviously. I see absolutely no similarity between that and the way SF is used. Your argument could be better explained by an 8 year old.

Don't you think that if the majority was unhappy with the way SF is now, they would have changed it by now? But even the people who aren't happy with it, they still play the game. And that's how ANet thinks. The more players the better. If the satisfied players are playing the game, good. If the unsatisfied players are also playing, great! More profit. I hope you didn't forget that ANet is a company, and like any other, they follow a simple business model - maximise profit. You telling them to make a change that would reduce their playerbase (doesn't even have to be by much) is basically telling them "make less money and lose potential buyers for GW 2 please!". Not gonna happen.
And what proof do YOU have that the majority think nerfing SF is a good idea? We can go on like this for the whole day, it leads nowhere.

Jeydra · Feb 05, 2011, 08:15 AM // 08:15

You're comparing SF to other "tank" skills like Defy Pain and Stoneflesh Aura, and you don't think there's much of a difference even though SF includes spell immunity and damage reduction and is 1s cast and is maintainable and is an "invincibuild" - so I don't think there's much of a difference between one shot kills and Shadow Form either.

I don't need proof that the majority thinks nerfing SF is a good idea. My arguments for nerfing SF are based on other, empirical and objective things such as its maintained invincibility + the massive SC time difference with and without Shadow Form. I don't even think what the majority thinks is even relevant. You, on the other hand, need proof that the majority thinks nerfing SF is a bad idea, because you have no other arguments for not nerfing SF. Do you?

It goes without saying that every single argument for not nerfing SF that I have read stray away from game mechanics, damage output, invincibility, etc - i.e. things that are directly related to the game - and focus on "but this is most profitable", "but this is what the majority wants", and so on.

vitorvdp_68 · Feb 05, 2011, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

You're comparing SF to other "tank" skills like Defy Pain and Stoneflesh Aura, and you don't think there's much of a difference even though SF includes spell immunity and damage reduction and is 1s cast and is maintainable and is an "invincibuild" - so I don't think there's much of a difference between one shot kills and Shadow Form either.

I don't need proof that the majority thinks nerfing SF is a good idea. My arguments for nerfing SF are based on other, empirical and objective things such as its maintained invincibility + the massive SC time difference with and without Shadow Form. You, on the other hand, need proof that the majority thinks nerfing SF is a bad idea, because you have no other arguments for not nerfing SF. Do you?

There is so much wrong with this post... you basically came up with a bunch of random crap to avoid answering to my real argument. "You're comparing SF to other "tank" skills" - I never did, I really don't see how you got to this point.

"You, on the other hand, need proof that the majority thinks nerfing SF is a bad idea" - you were the one who brought up having proof about the majority's view on this, so I wouldn't be saying that if I were you.

"because you have no other arguments for not nerfing SF" - I stated my arguments plenty of times. Of course, they are debatable, because in reality there is no wrong or right. You seriously need to stop smoking dope.

Edit: also, this - "maintained invincibility" - try standing in the cave of Fissure of Woe, or the Burning Forest, with SF on. Just SF. Good luck.

Jeydra · Feb 05, 2011, 08:22 AM // 08:22

If you ever did compare SF to other tanking skills then you would immediately notice how overpowered Shadow Form is. Since you don't, I can only assume you did not do the comparisons. Don't believe me? Show me some comparisons now - SF vs. Defy Pain or Stoneflesh Aura.

You need proof for the majority's opinions because it's important to your arguments. I don't because I don't use said argument. I do not think what the majority of unskilled players (such as those who don't understand terra builds) think should even factor into balance decisions.

If your argument for not nerfing SF is something other than "the majority thinks it is a good idea" then state your argument for not nerfing SF in unambiguous terms here and now.

vitorvdp_68 · Feb 05, 2011, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

If you ever did compare SF to other tanking skills then you would immediately notice how overpowered Shadow Form is. Since you don't, I can only assume you did not do the comparisons. Don't believe me? Show me some comparisons now - SF vs. Defy Pain or Stoneflesh Aura.

You need proof for the majority's opinions because it's important to your arguments. I don't because I don't use said argument.

I do not think what the majority of unskilled players (such as those who don't understand terra builds) think should even factor into balance decisions.

If your argument for not nerfing SF is something other than "the majority thinks it is a good idea" then state your argument for not nerfing SF in unambiguous terms here and now.

Show me some comparisons now - SF vs. Defy Pain or Stoneflesh Aura.
-If every tanking skill was just as powerful as the next, it would be a bit dull wouldn't it?-

"You need proof for the majority's opinions because it's important to your arguments. I don't because I don't use said argument."
- You were the first one to mention about proof in your argument, so you did use it. Don't lie, and don't go edit your post.-

Read the thread and you will find some of my posts, I don't care enough to repeat myself.

One of the arguments is that a lot of people complain about not being able to do balancedway because of SC's. In this thread alone, there is enough people who don't like SF that could get together and form a group. Do they ever do that? No. If you join a guild that doesn't care about speed clears, it shouldn't be a problem forming balanced groups, but people are just too lazy, and therefore shouldn't complain.

Edit: anyway, I'm not going any further than this. Bye. Don't expect a reply.

Jeydra · Feb 05, 2011, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Like I said I don't need proof that the majority's opinion is against nerfing SF. I called your statement that the majority do indeed oppose nerfing SF into question. That is called "rebutting your argument".

SF is light years ahead of every other tanking skill, as achievements such as this imply: http://img502.imageshack.us/i/101117024429955826.jpg/ Simply not possible without Shadow Form. This isn't a case of "every skill being as powerful as the next", this is a case of Base Defense vs. Flare.

I do not think not being able to do balancedway because of SCs is a valid argument for nerfing Shadow Form, just as I do not think the argument that "you can simply not use Shadow Form!" is a valid argument for not nerfing Shadow Form.

Xiaquin · Feb 05, 2011, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitorvdp_68

If SF hasn't been nerfed, it's because Anet knows it will do more harm than good to the player base.

Since the early days of duo UW runs (or anything before my time), Anet could have nipped this in the bud. In the first year of the game they could have drawn the line at what is "acceptable" and chose not to. I sat there in my noob days wondering why the fragile mages in the game could stand alone in a mob with 55 health and not die.

Please don't think we're gullible enough to believe "it's too late to do anything now".