Curse

MithranArkanere · Feb 19, 2011, 02:48 PM // 14:48

DP was a bad idea in PvE on the first place. The time you waste with wipes and death itself is punishment enough for bringing a bad build.

On of the things I like in pre-Searing is the lack of DP. It's more fun that way.

Shayne Hawke · Feb 19, 2011, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Skills like the previous Asuran Scan, Intensity, and BUH, and even AoHM in some ways, were all skills to artificially boost the damage of any one character. Perhaps this allowed the ranger or paragon to compensate for some power that they lack in comparison to other professions, but as far as making them balanced with other professions, it did nothing.

The skills have no need to be reverted. If a change like this reveals that the ranger and paragon both need re-hauls of their own, so be it. You won't achieve meaningful balance by just saying, "Hey, here's a skill that allows you to do 50% more damage all the time, because we think this is a much easier way of giving you the buff we really think you need than actually giving you that buff."

Kaleban · Feb 19, 2011, 04:02 PM // 16:02

/notsigned

Multiplicative damage skills only served to increase the imbalance of physical damage dealers.

Yes, I agree the Ranger and Elementalist need looking into. I wholeheartedly disagree with AScan getting any sort of damage buff, I personally hated those type of skills because all they do is serve as a crutch for bad builds.

Xiaquin · Feb 19, 2011, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Flat percentage damage buffs are band-aids for the weak and too powerful for the already strong. I main a ranger and actively play ele, and won't miss those skills.

I think DP is necessary to keep difficulty, but overall it's a victory for rolling back the ridiculous power creep in the game.

I'm hoping the nerf club is just getting started, because it's actually more fun now that builds are freeing of bolt-on damage. The only downer is that it didn't come sooner.

Hobbs · Feb 19, 2011, 10:37 PM // 22:37

My main is a warrior and my secondary is an Assassin. I've got Legendary VQ and Guardian on my warrior and never used AS, and i've never used it on my Sin.

You don't need it, it's a crutch. Plus, it's boring, use a PvE skill which is more fun and add some variety.

DokkyDok · Feb 19, 2011, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Maybe fixing R/ and P/ before limiting their options even more would have been a good idea. If it takes another 2 * ( 8 to 10 ) months there won't be any left.

This.

I totally agree that a lot of pve skills were/are stupidly overpowered, but nerfing them hurts the weaker professions quite a lot, and lessens their ability to compete with the better professions. Ideally, ANet would do a para/ranger/ele update; however, this would take an absurd amount of time. It probably would have been better to leave the pve skills untouched, at least until some of the weaker professions got their updates (which is unlikely to happen). Oh well.

Neither /signing nor /notsigning.

Rites · Feb 20, 2011, 12:20 AM // 00:20

wow all these peeps that seem to NEED DP removal......... why don't you guys just go back to basics and LEARN how not to die?

DP is removed WHILE YOU KEEP KILLING, so as long as you keep killing stuff and don't die again there really shouldn't be an issue

as for AScan..... i dont know nor care cuz i never used it and never will

FoxBat · Feb 20, 2011, 12:52 AM // 00:52

The one problem with all this wishful thinking, is I thought Stumme said no more class overhauls were planned. Whether AS or something else, sounds like a bandaid is the best we can hope for.

Drake Slasher · Feb 20, 2011, 06:01 PM // 18:01

good nerf (even though the DP part is kinda stupid), now go for pain inverter.

Swingline · Feb 20, 2011, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbs

My main is a warrior and my secondary is an Assassin. I've got Legendary VQ and Guardian on my warrior and never used AS, and i've never used it on my Sin.

You don't need it, it's a crutch. Plus, it's boring, use a PvE skill which is more fun and add some variety.

If anything they made it an even bigger crutch. Being able to hit through blind, hexes that cause you to miss(also causing damage upon missing) and block is completely overpowered and makes VQing a complete joke now. I remember each zone I VQed with my warrior and when I came up against blind/hexes/stances/enchants that hindered melee greatly I had to get creative to get around them to deal damage and when I did the damage from AS was well deserved. A good example are the raptors in eotn, I had to go axe instead of dagger and bring mirror of disenchantment to strip them of their incredibly long lasting block enchant to get through to them. The new AS makes it so I can run the same build a lot more often without getting creative in any way. I don't even have to micro my heroes to remove blind anymore. The fact that it also removes DP just makes the game even more boring and a snooze fest.

Reformed · Feb 20, 2011, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Mega nerf, new skill is super Fox's Promise and has some use but is far from a staple skill. I don't understand the DP removal portion at all and it doesn't seem well thought out. Since Stumme and co. don't like percentage multipliers I'd suggest removing the DP portion and adding in a scaled by title rank amount of +damage to the hexed foe. Think "IatS!" but as a hex.

Vazze · Feb 26, 2011, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Anet has continuously increased the damage output of characters over the years. It is just stupid. A few years ago when HM was introduced NM was harder than HM now. Seriously, wtf? Did you ask yourselves how people play and replay their favorite games? Certainly not by starting at the highest difficulty level and then going down to easy: it gets boring you know.

About AS. Normally we have 8 skills on our bar. Things are abit more complicated but each one has a contribution of 1/8 or 13% to your total dps. Now AS at full rank alone has ~43% of your single target dps. It is incredibly strong, threee time better than the next skill on your bar.

Yet I voted "signed" because of the AI. The AI was (probably) consciously dumbed down so (dumb) ppl can play tankspank if they fail at the game. Sadly it worked really well and thanks to that aoe in general is much stronger than single target dps. AS was indeed strong, but it was just a bandaid for single target dps, nothing more. Now there is no bandaid and single target dps fails like never before.

Xiaquin · Feb 26, 2011, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

About AS. Normally we have 8 skills on our bar. Things are abit more complicated but each one has a contribution of 1/8 or 13% to your total dps.

Um, what?

That's not even close to logical.

Vazze · Feb 26, 2011, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Um, what?

That's not even close to logical.

Need a brain?

Del · Feb 26, 2011, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

Need a brain?

He's actually correct. That shit made no sense.

HigherMinion · Feb 26, 2011, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Anet prefer tank and spank to single-target cspace killing? Speedclears are their target audience? The fact that there is no ZB with "Kath, UW, SoO"etc. with the bonus being "complete all floors in under 2 minutes", doesn't change that all these updates are being made to favour Speedclears.

Fine, single-target DPS is low now, people cry about it then move on. Where's the balance between broken spell-protection skills and this?Can we expect cons or Shadowform to take another hit?

MithranArkanere · Feb 26, 2011, 12:21 PM // 12:21

If you really think this, as "the Scotsman who can't watch a movie without shouting at the screen" says: You are not using you 'prain'.

Speed clearers don't need a skill that lets them hit while blind or blocked, their main source of damage is almost always spells.
And they don't need a skill to lose DP, their builds are designed to practically never die.

For a speed clearer, the % damage bonuses were way better.

HigherMinion · Feb 26, 2011, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

If you really think this, as "the Scotsman who can't watch a movie without shouting at the screen" says: You are not using you 'prain'.

Speed clearers don't need a skill that lets them hit while blind or blocked, their main source of damage is almost always spells.
And they don't need a skill to lose DP, their builds are designed to practically never die.

For a speed clearer, the % damage bonuses were way better.

1. they never used ascan.
2. buh was never necessary.

So they were slowed down by 5 minutes. So what? The general PvE players have had their effectiveness cut down far greater. DP removal on a skill is more OP because it means bad players can get through anything with this on their bar.

MithranArkanere · Feb 26, 2011, 03:48 PM // 15:48

People can already remove DP with consumables.
I have so much of that stuff that I give it away once in a while with a trivia contest.

DP removal in a skill only means that you can remove it without consumables, by sacrificing a skill slot, in the same way you can save a slot by bringing resurrection scrolls instead a resurrection skill.

Reformed · Feb 26, 2011, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

DP removal in a skill only means that you can remove it without consumables, by sacrificing a skill slot, in the same way you can save a slot by bringing resurrection scrolls instead a resurrection skill.

Res scrolls promote the stupidity of not bringing a hard res at all. Guess how that works out when people feel stingy or the guy with the scrolls dies. DP removal on a skill is just dumb it should be reworked into something more practical. Even an energy return (5e?) if you kill the target while it's hexed would thematically make more sense.