Curse

FoxBat · Apr 13, 2011, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Shelter and run at least two healers, both stacked with party heals. There is no way 1 PWK can keep up with judgement. Life tends to get blown up by judgement so that will proc the heal when needed. Everything else that is hard in UW tends to be AoE party damage anyway (skeletons, dryders) so that will probably help your failure rate too.

Pain Inverter on judgement will also make the dhuum fight go dramatically faster, but you will need to spiritize some heroes to take advantage of it.

Chthon · Apr 13, 2011, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

None of your heroes become spirits? You really need Reversal of Death or Asuran Scan. One copy would do... Pick a hero, any hero. Asuran Scan would work vs the skeletons, so if you can fit it on your bar- do it.

Well, AScan will work for the player. But that means keeping aggro on yourself the whole time so he doesn't get the heroes. Which in turn makes it hard for you to run around AScanning skeletons.

All in all, I'm tempted to say: I make an exception to the "real pros don't need cons" rule for Dhuum. He was designed with an utterly ridiculous mechanic that doesn't exist anywhere else in the game and does not have any real counters in the normal skillset. If someone wants to use DP-removers to counteract Dhuum's touch, otherwise use no cons, and call it a "no cons" accomplishment, I'm fine with that.

North Devon Dog · Apr 13, 2011, 10:38 PM // 22:38

I agree with the above. Whats a honeycomb between friends?

I have been trying to hero all the Elite missions in NM without cons and have had no problem except with Dhuum, who completely nailed me (camped and healed the reaper in FH if your interested, still failed loads even in NM) Whats clear, the healing and therefore the builds you can use in NM would be useless in HM but the opposite is not true so there could well be a definitive build for doing this. Respect to you guys doing this in HM (particularly the four horsemen tactics).

I would say that if you have done all 10 missions without cons before, then using cons to get to Dhuum makes sense, that's what I will do, it will significantly reduce the time to get to him. As long as you defeat the swingy fool without cons then fair enough.

I really hope you guys succeed and post a nice post of the way you did it so us minnons can follow your lead :-)

Until you do I'll keep trying

EFGJack · Apr 13, 2011, 11:12 PM // 23:12

I'm doing UW HM purely for the challenge it offers and so I can rub my e-schlong on my guildies' faces (and by guildies I mean the bunch who haven't logged on in 2-4 years) and say how I beat UW without drugs, etc etc.

...
......Right. I personally will not touch any sort of consumables until I've done all 10 quests & killed Dhuum in the same run - without using those. And I'm pretty sure I can accomplish this soonER than I had expected, I've tweaked the setup I posted in this thread to be more Dhuum-friendly. It doesn't involve Asuran Scan, though. What I'm going to do is I'll sacrifice one of the mesmers at the start for Reversal of Death. After that it shouldn't be too hard - ST rit with Earthbind will prevent most of D's damage.

Which leads to my final question: What happens if Dhuum gets to 20% before rest bar is full? Do I still have to wait for the bar to get filled by reapers?

Xenomortis · Apr 13, 2011, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFGJack

Which leads to my final question: What happens if Dhuum gets to 20% before rest bar is full? Do I still have to wait for the bar to get filled by reapers?

Yes, the rest bar must fill. Your sacrificed hero can help with Dhuum's Rest too.
There are reports of people disconnecting if you drop Dhuum's health to zero before filling the rest meter, but I've never experienced that.

Chthon · Apr 14, 2011, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Yes, the rest bar must fill. Your sacrificed hero can help with Dhuum's Rest too.
There are reports of people disconnecting if you drop Dhuum's health to zero before filling the rest meter, but I've never experienced that.

It was fixed within the first week after Dhuum was added. At that time, there was also a related bug where he'd go underground and sometimes not return if he was at 0hp. I had that once.

D H U U M · Apr 14, 2011, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

It was fixed within the first week after Dhuum was added. At that time, there was also a related bug where he'd go underground and sometimes not return if he was at 0hp. I had that once.

The bug is not fixed. Just did a UW run a month ago with other guildies. We dropped him before the bar filled and promptly got the game lock up with the choice of trying to connect again. Of course even trying to reconnect resulted in a failure. Wasn't just me either so it wasn't just my end. It was every member in the team.

It is certainly not a fun bug to encounter as you just wasted all that time to get screwed over at the end.

EFGJack · Apr 14, 2011, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Well, shit. I got to Dhuum while running Backbreaker & Earthbind and I died in less than 15 seconds, Judgment destroyed Shelter & displacement and Dhuum killed me swiftly afterwards. I did get surprisingly far even while running around in Ghost form for like 40 something minutes, the encounters' certainly not made while keeping heroes in mind. Ohwellz, at least I learned Dhuums' summons do indeed count as "Summoned" monsters, Spiritual Brain and Holy Spear seemed to kill the adds rather quickly.

Next time I'll make sure to survive through the first Judgment so I can keep D H double U under control.

And yes, there are mercs but you can run the same setup without 'em.

FoxBat · Apr 14, 2011, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I was screwed over by the empty life bar thing as well. It doesn't bug every time but it still happens sometimes. There's no advantage in knocking him below 25% anyway so just avoid it.

D H U U M · Apr 15, 2011, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Ah that really sucks EFGJack about the last run to get a 15sec wipe. As I have been playing around in UW NM though I have noticed great mes work can completely shutdown Dhuum. If there is anyway for you to toss on any more fast interrupt skills on their bar it can really help reduce the rate you have to deal with Judgment, especially if you are able to at least neutralize his first one. From there you could get the spirits up and start to KD him.

It is a little tough to tell the exact placement of your heros on the picture. For me though I have put my mes in 1 and 2 slot to make them mobile from the group. I place them just in front of the center pedestal where they are in reach of Dhuum's start location. Then once you move the last into the room and he becomes hostile, the mes quickly pounce on Dhuums casting.

I don't know how important VOR and Backfire is on your mes for the UW run, if doable though I would look to replace those for interrupting. Ultimately those two are pretty worthless at Dhuum.

EFGJack · Apr 15, 2011, 02:32 PM // 14:32

I have not been running vor/bf since the very first post. Qnd it wasn't a 15s wipe but just my own death. :-P

Aaaand heroes don't keep dhuums spells under control as he instantly recasts the skill if it gets rupted. I dont know if he does this on NM but he certainly does it on HM.

Koning · Apr 15, 2011, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFGJack

Aaaand heroes don't keep dhuums spells under control as he instantly recasts the skill if it gets rupted. I dont know if he does this on NM but he certainly does it on HM.

How about psychic distraction (it would disable the spell when it gets interrupted) or psychic instability (he would be KD'd)?

This thread looks interesting btw

Makes me want to try it too

Killed u man · Apr 15, 2011, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Euhm, EFGJack, I myself, too, am looking for ways to beat UW HM with Heroes without the use of consets.

I find your Muddy Terrain idea brilliant, and I've decided to try it myself aswell.

As for Dhuum:

He becomes a walk in the park with SY.

Essentially, what you'll want to be doing is build your SY for 45 seconds, then wait for his judgement and the second it hits the floor, hit SY. (Which should last about 5 seconds aswell) In HM, it gets reduced to about +- 20 damage per pulse. (Less than a flurry of splinters)

Other than that, throw up a Shelter the second JoD ends, and you should be fine. I managed to stay alive in HM (WITH consets at 4H, but not as dhuum, before I knew about this muddy terrain trick) for 20 minutes against Dhuum this way no problem whatsoever. I died because I forgot to use SY :P

Do make sure you have some clovers for the unavoidable Dhuum DP skill.

EFGJack · Apr 15, 2011, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Euhm, EFGJack, I myself, too, am looking for ways to beat UW HM with Heroes without the use of consets.

I find your Muddy Terrain idea brilliant, and I've decided to try it myself aswell.

As for Dhuum:

He becomes a walk in the park with SY.

Essentially, what you'll want to be doing is build your SY for 45 seconds, then wait for his judgement and the second it hits the floor, hit SY. (Which should last about 5 seconds aswell) In HM, it gets reduced to about +- 20 damage per pulse. (Less than a flurry of splinters)

Other than that, throw up a Shelter the second JoD ends, and you should be fine. I managed to stay alive in HM (WITH consets at 4H, but not as dhuum, before I knew about this muddy terrain trick) for 20 minutes against Dhuum this way no problem whatsoever. I died because I forgot to use SY :P

Do make sure you have some clovers for the unavoidable Dhuum DP skill.

Clovers are consumables dude, I'm not going to use them, they eliminate the one mechanic that makes the fight interesting. Anyway, I believe I know the basics of Guild Wars, thanks though.

And @Koning - It's better to build up against Dhuum while assuming he gets to cast his spells instead of trying to be clever with spells such as PD. ;>

Jeydra · Apr 15, 2011, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I'm making progress, I just feel like I'm completely reinventing the wheel. Still haven't gotten past 4H with a (at least theoretically) Dhuum viable build, but each time I try I get closer. Reminds me of the time when I first tried: each run tells me a little more about the tactics that I need to apply, and all that's left is simply to use them. If 4H is doable with this setup, the rest shouldn't be too difficult.

I'd love to run more defense just to deal with Dhuum, but the way 4H goes that's simply not possible: you need the offense. When I tried switching out one offensive hero for a mostly defensive one, I lost about 10 seconds of time wiping one wave. That's absolutely critical in 4H, however, and it was the difference between success and failure. Shucks.

I believe UW HM is doable H/H without consumables (including Clovers), it's just a matter of time until someone pulls together a run. For now though I'm carrying Res Scrolls into UW, cut out some of the absurdly long times it takes to clear quests.

If you interrupt Judgment, does it go on 45s cooldown?

EFGJack · Apr 15, 2011, 04:41 PM // 16:41

If you rupt Dhuum he will simply re-cast it in a matter of seconds. It's pretty funky.

Life Bringing · Apr 15, 2011, 08:18 PM // 20:18

No, if your rupt judgment it goes on cooldown. It's the primary reason that SC groups never use a dream rider at Dhuum. The interruption slows down the killing dramatically because the damage comes from PI.

Killed u man · Apr 15, 2011, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Hey, I dind't know you were counting clovers as consumables.

Dealing with Judgement is easy, SY takes care of it. A single hero with prot spirit or a ST should take care of Dhuum's regular output.

So it's only a question of: How can we deal with his DP?

I think someone said you simply can not stop his touch DP skill, so you're only bet is snaring dhuum, trying to get to attack you, and asuran scan your DP off.

There simply is not other way to get rid of DP. But even then, last time I faced Dhuum, even his DP wasn't that big of a deal. (It was a really ez fight untill I decided to fall asleep and not use SY)

I don't know why you have so much troubles with him.

Xenomortis · Apr 15, 2011, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

There simply is not other way to get rid of DP. But even then, last time I faced Dhuum, even his DP wasn't that big of a deal. (It was a really ez fight untill I decided to fall asleep and not use SY)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Reversal_of_Death
It's probably advisable to let a hero die just for that skill.

Save Yourselves isn't really an option for casters and may be hard to fit into a player bar depending on setup.

EFGJack · Apr 15, 2011, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I don't know why you have so much troubles with him.

I have not been using SY because a certain elementalist is jealous he can't take advantage of it.

Quote:

No, if your rupt judgment it goes on cooldown. It's the primary reason that SC groups never use a dream rider at Dhuum. The interruption slows down the killing dramatically because the damage comes from PI.

Well, shit. I should play while am sober more often and actually pay attention what gets rupted. ;> I believe I'll try and fit SY in somewhere and actually get done with this, without it it's too jumpy as he can kill a hero really quickly if he just sticks to the target... Last time I was up against him he kept going after spirits for like 20-25 minutes and no one took any dmg from anything but adds and judgment.