Curse

cheape arie · May 21, 2011, 01:56 PM // 13:56

I just don't see the problem with people farming this.....

vitorvdp_68 · May 21, 2011, 05:38 PM // 17:38

I saw a few sellers asking 6k for each Cloth today in Kama, so I don't see how this farm is effective or worthwhile.

melissa b · May 21, 2011, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

This is not what I would call an "AFK farm"

You need to be ATK to set it up.. and if you are smart ATK to at least wave two. The suicide dorfs will ball up wave one to the point it can and will swamp a static hero team.

The "OMG AFK FARMING" part is merely some players.. for a very few minutes at most.. letting their heroes contend with the mobs. AFK in the sense of this mission is merely an expression of a hero group strong enough to handle things without input or help for a very small window of time.

Cores and Cloths dont fall into your inventory either..You have to be ATK to actually gain any benefit from doing it.

Its definitely not neccessary to be atk to wave 2 with the 3 mesmer frontline, 3 necro + 1 rit setup. Just flag 3 at ledge (atk 15 seconds), go (afk about 19 minutes) have sound set up in options to make pings loud and music and such mute, when you hear the single ping not the multi ping sound effect get back to computer and pick up cloth and cores (atk 15 seconds) This ability to afk allows you to run this on multiple accounts really easily. That allows for some serious cash flow.

___________________________________________
Self-correcting Problem or Symptom of a problem?
Yes I have noticed cloths have been dropping in price most likely as a result of the excessive afk farming. Now if anything this is punishing active players and especially pugs. The afk farmers can stack accounts to help with lower cloth prices.
___________________________________________
Heres what I see so far from responses, a strong divide

Pro Side
-Eliminate or Reduce Rewards for People that AFK the farm

-Preserve the farm utility for non-afkers and pugs

-Add Additional Incentive to balance the new changes

Con Side
-The solution to the problem is not a good one
(The con side has yet to present an alternative solution)
(A pro side suggested closer spawns or speed buffs while carrying -so con side how do you feel about that suggestion????????)

- It punishes normal play
(rewards are added so that should negate this)
(doing nothing punishes normal play because of deflation causes from excessive afk farming)

-The rewards are small enough that its not an issue
(Many farms are low reward but have been nerfed by anet, how much gold did afk lightbringer farm bring for example? Its unearned gold and it can really stack up over time since a player can farm significantly more than if that player was actively at the keyboard and this especially adds up with multiple accounts.

-There are other more important issues
(sounds like a generic response that I see in many threads and I could just spam that in every single idea ever created in this forum

-Letting heroes play for you/ afk farming is a legitimate playstyle
(this is one step from botting - either you see this as wrong or you don't)

-and the non-spoken I don't want to lose my free gold I'm an afk farmer so I'll conceal my motive and come up with reasons to attack this
(No one had admitted they afk farm yet so many people are doing it...anyone want to admit to it and offer a defense?)

vitorvdp_68 · May 21, 2011, 06:34 PM // 18:34

The truth is, ANet is most likely not going to do any more updates really.
If they do, then there are indeed more important issues. Deal with it.
Things like changes to the ranger, eles, smiting skills, and even paragons would be more relevant to players.

Now you can proceed to tell me this argument is invalid.

Edit: and before you flame me, no, I have never done Glint's challenge, not even once.
Btw, congrats on raising awareness of this farm. Maybe I'll try it sometime...

Del · May 21, 2011, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

-and the non-spoken I don't want to lose my free gold I'm an afk farmer so I'll conceal my motive and come up with reasons to attack this
(No one had admitted they afk farm yet so many people are doing it...anyone want to admit to it and offer a defense?)

The fact that you seriously think anyone who disagrees with you MUST be an afk farmer pants-on-head retarded.

melissa b · May 21, 2011, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

The fact that you seriously think anyone who disagrees with you MUST be an afk farmer is just silly.

lol I gave 6 reasons not just the one you quoted -along with rebuttals if you care to respond to those, try again

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitorvdp_68

The truth is, ANet is most likely not going to do any more updates really.
If they do, then there are indeed more important issues. Deal with it.
Things like changes to the ranger, eles, smiting skills, and even paragons would be more relevant to players.

Anet has show time and time again they will eventually nerf farms that are abused in some way -March 2011 being the most current nerf, they will most like get to this farm sometime. Im not agains skill updates at all. They fit those in when they have time and they fit in nerfs to exploits when they have time. These are different issues obviously but thanks for the generic response. I could post in any idea and say x is more important to y, but perhaps the better answer is x and y should be addressed as time allows for anet instead of well y is most important so ignore everything else.

HotSoup · May 21, 2011, 07:39 PM // 19:39

If any of you think Gold Sellers are doing the GLINTS challenge AFK, your wrong. Just wanted to point that out.

Lasai · May 22, 2011, 02:57 AM // 02:57

If you think that somehow removing a minor AFK issue with this Mission will somehow control deflation of Cloths you need to think WHY and not HOW.

7 heroes made this possible.. and mercs/razah even more so. ATK, AFK, no matter, more people will be doing this regardless. Ultimately, adding a silly mechanic will accomplish nothing re cloth prices. This mission is easier than farming Sunspear remnants because of the guaranteed drop.. and what are they worth?

I ran it solely for enough cloths for my alts and guildmate to fit out thier NF heroes.. nothing more. Cloths I did NOT have to purchase off the spammarket. I won't ever purchase a cloth again.

This is not some main profession specific specialized farm. Anyone can do it Solo/Heroes. The market for cloths will reflect this fact.. afk or atk.. no matter.

OP is blowing this far out of proportion to actual impact. Just another "issue of the week" that only they have the solution for.

Furthermore, if this idiot dragon feeding req were put in, I would just play my rit ATK and use 6 heroes... and drag my second acct in to just stand there and collect a second cloth per trip.

I do the mission ATK anyway.. but the fact remains.. 7 can do it. Heroes or players. Screwing with the mechs won't change that.

What screwing with the mechs in this manner will do is Punish player teams going for scores by forcing them delegate a person to running seeds instead of keeping dorfs up and splitting to speed kill waves.

Ranger Jaap · May 22, 2011, 03:58 PM // 15:58

OP It sounds like you want to change it just because of the farmers, it's not like people do glints for any other thing then farming and hero armor.

Mike Jack · May 22, 2011, 04:34 PM // 16:34

This idea is bad because it assumes baby dragons from a champion of Kralkatorrik would eat tiny,2-3 lvl 20/26 Jumbo Succulent Junipers a wave. Honestly, you forgot to take into the REALISM factor in all of this. It should actually consume 8 humans per wave. yum yum dietary fiber. This way, you actually have to be at the keyboard to feed the dragon, and it is a much more appropriate diet.

melissa b · May 22, 2011, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Jack

This idea is bad because it assumes baby dragons from a champion of Kralkatorrik would eat tiny,2-3 lvl 20/26 Jumbo Succulent Junipers a wave. Honestly, you forgot to take into the REALISM factor in all of this. It should actually consume 8 humans per wave. yum yum dietary fiber. This way, you actually have to be at the keyboard to feed the dragon, and it is a much more appropriate diet.

I know your joking but just wanted to point out that I did try to make it a little bit plausible by making the level 20 Succulent Junipers a Jumbo version or very large. Oh and heres a link to a dictionary http://dictionary.reference.com/ so you can see the difference between the word tiny and jumbo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger Jaap

OP It sounds like you want to change it just because of the farmers, it's not like people do glints for any other thing then farming and hero armor.

Farmers is too general a term. I want to seperate that into afk farmers and atk farmers. This nerf is focused on nerfing the afk farmers and preserving the atk farmers.

Ninja Dude · May 22, 2011, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

what would you do to discourage afk farming in this case?

Give a couple of the ranger destroyers Nature's Renewal and give some of the necromancer destroyers Well of Profane. You won't be able to destroy the spirit because the heros are flagged and won't move and well of profane will completely nullify the EMO. Normal teams won't be affected because they can move.

Kunder · May 23, 2011, 03:22 AM // 03:22

I propose that all players should have to answer a captcha every 30s of guild wars play or be disconnected without chance of reconnection. Get rid of those damn botters and AFKers in one fell swoop!

In any case, farming this doesn't hurt anyway. Players aren't making money with this, they are getting items. Destroyer cores and cloth have almost exactly 0 effect on the market as a whole, if tomorrow every destroyer dropped 20 Dcores then almost nothing would change.

melissa b · May 23, 2011, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Dude

Give a couple of the ranger destroyers Nature's Renewal and give some of the necromancer destroyers Well of Profane. You won't be able to destroy the spirit because the heros are flagged and won't move and well of profane will completely nullify the EMO. Normal teams won't be affected because they can move.

This might stop some afk farmers temporarily but they will quickly buildwars past that obstacle. For example a team build now uses no emo, and uses 3 mesmers, 3 necros, and a rit. Most affected by that would be the 2 second hexes and the protect enchants. The protect enchants might become wards. The mesmers might trade some 2 second hexes for shorter hexes, switch weapon sets to 20/20+20/20, and pump up fast casting attribute higher. Plus any other number of ways players work out and post in the farming section.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

I propose that all players should have to answer a captcha every 30s of guild wars play or be disconnected without chance of reconnection. Get rid of those damn botters and AFKers in one fell swoop!

LOL - a + 1 post?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

In any case, farming this doesn't hurt anyway. Players aren't making money with this, they are getting items. Destroyer cores and cloth have almost exactly 0 effect on the market as a whole, if tomorrow every destroyer dropped 20 Dcores then almost nothing would change.

Lots of profitable farms involve around items...armbraces, cupcakes, candy apples, pumpkin pie etc...

If your definition of "almost nothing" means... 20 dcores would become 140 granite with salvaging which would affect destroyer weapons, powerstones, and a few armors and also hurt some granite farmers. Plus it would kill tons of wintersday items pricing as well as consumable power traders: Rodj during windtersday collecting 1 core for spiked eggnog, fruitcake, rainbow cc, snowman sum, wintergreen cane. Yes lets give every player in the game three near free titles (sweet, party and drunk) for logging on and make death penalty(rainbow canes) a lol of yesterday and give every class a 60+ second lasting 25+% run boost (drunken master with spiked eggnog) and lets give griefers toys for kamadan (snowman spam) and why not pick on the pre-searing community (honeycombs=rainbow canes as well as gifts of the huntsman would become near worthless to porters or people that port those items to kamadan to resell - new character name [title points was us, I divorced honeycomb]). Lastly destroyer core farmers that sell to people that need them for destroyer gauntlets....then yes I agree "almost nothing" would change - lol

vitorvdp_68 · May 23, 2011, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

Lots of profitable farms involve around items...armbraces, cupcakes, candy apples, pumpkin pie etc...

Really? I thought farming was all about selling shares and bonds in the stock exchange?
I don't think it's right to say armbraces are "farmed"

melissa b · May 23, 2011, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitorvdp_68

Really? I thought farming was all about selling shares and bonds in the stock exchange?
I don't think it's right to say armbraces are "farmed"

I too was shocked when someone pointed out what farming was...I thought it meant milking cows. Sadly I couldn't get the /milk command to word.

Sure armbraces are farmed repeatedly by doa speedclear teams.

Ninja Dude · May 23, 2011, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

This might stop some afk farmers temporarily but they will quickly buildwars past that obstacle. For example a team build now uses no emo, and uses 3 mesmers, 3 necros, and a rit. Most affected by that would be the 2 second hexes and the protect enchants. The protect enchants might become wards. The mesmers might trade some 2 second hexes for shorter hexes, switch weapon sets to 20/20+20/20, and pump up fast casting attribute higher. Plus any other number of ways players work out and post in the farming section.

You have a point. How about instead of the current destroyer rangers being altered, a frail destroyer similar to a elementalist destroyers spawns out of aggro range that does nothing but spam Nature's Renewal, Predatory Season, Energizing Winds, and Frozen Soil. They still won't affect normal groups because they'll quickly kill the destroyer. With -20% healing they just won't be able to heal fast enough and even with 20/20 sets they can't disable the waves of melee quickly enough or kill them quickly enough. They'd get overwhelmed. There are no shorter mesmer hexes that are that powerful. Wards wouldn't be effective because if you noiticed the positioning of the heros, they're spread out too far and at least 4 of them would need wards for them to all be protected. I'm not sure where you're going with necros... I just don't see anything in there that would provide enough damage and protection like mesmers do.

Kunder · May 23, 2011, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

If your definition of "almost nothing" means... 20 dcores would become 140 granite with salvaging which would affect destroyer weapons, powerstones, and a few armors and also hurt some granite farmers. Plus it would kill tons of wintersday items pricing as well as consumable power traders: Rodj during windtersday collecting 1 core for spiked eggnog, fruitcake, rainbow cc, snowman sum, wintergreen cane. Yes lets give every player in the game three near free titles (sweet, party and drunk) for logging on and make death penalty(rainbow canes) a lol of yesterday and give every class a 60+ second lasting 25+% run boost (drunken master with spiked eggnog) and lets give griefers toys for kamadan (snowman spam) and why not pick on the pre-searing community (honeycombs=rainbow canes as well as gifts of the huntsman would become near worthless to porters or people that port those items to kamadan to resell - new character name [title points was us, I divorced honeycomb]). Lastly destroyer core farmers that sell to people that need them for destroyer gauntlets....then yes I agree "almost nothing" would change - lol

Ohnoes, a miniscule part of the economy is being affected by this farm. Its not like everything has gone to shit, people have been farming this area for several years now and things are clearly just fine.

You massively overestimate the economic impact to an absurd degree. If you wanted to fix the economy you would go after botters. AFKing Glint requires you to be there every 20-25 mins or so to reset and makes almost nothing compared to someone who bots an area for 24 hours a day. Furthermore, since botters actually get gold or items readily exchangable for gold, they actually directly damage the economy.

melissa b · May 23, 2011, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Dude

You have a point. How about instead of the current destroyer rangers being altered, a frail destroyer similar to a elementalist destroyers spawns out of aggro range that does nothing but spam Nature's Renewal, Predatory Season, Energizing Winds, and Frozen Soil. They still won't affect normal groups because they'll quickly kill the destroyer. With -20% healing they just won't be able to heal fast enough and even with 20/20 sets they can't disable the waves of melee quickly enough or kill them quickly enough. They'd get overwhelmed. There are no shorter mesmer hexes that are that powerful. Wards wouldn't be effective because if you noiticed the positioning of the heros, they're spread out too far and at least 4 of them would need wards for them to all be protected. I'm not sure where you're going with necros... I just don't see anything in there that would provide enough damage and protection like mesmers do.

Hmmm, if the spawns are stationary and far enough away and spawn each wave, then it doesn't matter what spirits they have or if the heroes are alive or not since the next wave won't spawn. But then the question becomes which solution would be more accommodating to atk farmers. Feed the dragon where they don't have to run far from the dragon to complete and get reputation points for doing or running far from the dragon each round and no reputation points. I'll start with you, if you were playing atk which nerf would be the least harmful to your fun?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Ohnoes, a miniscule part of the economy is being affected by this farm. Its not like everything has gone to shit, people have been farming this area for several years now and things are clearly just fine.

You massively overestimate the economic impact to an absurd degree. If you wanted to fix the economy you would go after botters. AFKing Glint requires you to be there every 20-25 mins or so to reset and makes almost nothing compared to someone who bots an area for 24 hours a day. Furthermore, since botters actually get gold or items readily exchangable for gold, they actually directly damage the economy.

I like how you ignored how flawed your 20 dcore statement was but anyway the farming for several years was fine because afk farming didn't exist until after the hero update.

Botters are dealt with differently because its against eula. This case is about afking which as far as I know is legal so has to be dealt with a different method. Sure Anet does have a great system to deal with bots but there is a system and if you think of better ideas to deal with them then why not make a thread about that. I speciafically want to target this afk farm but ultimately all afk farms should be dealt with and perhaps a general afk farming thread should be started.

Ninja Dude · May 23, 2011, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

Hmmm, if the spawns are stationary and far enough away and spawn each wave, then it doesn't matter what spirits they have or if the heroes are alive or not since the next wave won't spawn. But then the question becomes which solution would be more accommodating to atk farmers. Feed the dragon where they don't have to run far from the dragon to complete and get reputation points for doing or running far from the dragon each round and no reputation points. I'll start with you, if you were playing atk which nerf would be the least harmful to your fun?

The stationary ranger. If it spawns with the wave that spawns in the middle, it won't be a problem. Feeding the dragon just sounds awkward and running back every round would be annoying rather than just having one extra, weak enemy.