Curse

papryk · Jun 07, 2011, 09:34 AM // 09:34

omg... AN really sux...
form gw.com : "For that we've crafted the Zaishen Strongbox, a grab bag item that drops when the Guild Lord is killed."
but resigning also kill the GL...
and damage on GL after 28 min doesnt give u the reward xD

Chocobo1 · Jun 07, 2011, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Meh it is really not a big issue. It's not like HB was where you would be getting a Zkey every game. Most of the time you get stupid shit like sparklers and flames of balth. The only people who would complain about it are people who haven't/can't gvg.

It's really not that exciting.

*lemming* · Jun 07, 2011, 10:17 AM // 10:17

8 boxes per win * 65 wins per guild * 6 guilds = 3k+ boxes

The going rate is what, 2e per box?

ErrantVenture · Jun 07, 2011, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by papryk

add a condition to get the strongbox: u must kill the Guild Lord.

Then no one will ever see a strong box. Even at 26+ minutes, killing the lord takes a couples seconds. Plenty of time for the other team to resign out. No one will ever get strongboxes because people will just resign to troll them instead of letting their lord die.

Simplest solution is to just add a rating requirement. If the winner of the match doesn't have at least 975 rating, they don't get a box. It's really not a difficult concept, not sure why there's any argument here.

Kunder · Jun 07, 2011, 01:58 PM // 13:58

If anything forcing the guild lord kill even helps the exploiters. They have to wait for 2 mins to /resign, but they can kill the lord at any time. If the other team isn't interfering you could actually speed UP the rate at which strongboxes were being farmed.

Chocolate_Prayers · Jun 07, 2011, 02:24 PM // 14:24

People will always find a way to exploit the system in order to rake in easy cash. So basically:

Quote:

Originally Posted by papryk

just delete strongboxes as a reward from winning in any pvp format and make them like z-keys exchangeable @ tolkano for 5k faction

problem solved

Artisan Archer · Jun 07, 2011, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

8 boxes per win * 65 wins per guild * 6 guilds = 3k+ boxes

The going rate is what, 2e per box?

Don't forget 8x9000 baltazar faction = 14 zkeys per win.

Basically making 200k every 2-5 minutes. Just by resigning.

Otello · Jun 07, 2011, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Go ahead and scale the drops based on the rating. If you beat a low level guild, you get a strongbox with low rewards. Beat a high level guild, get a strongbox with higher rewards. Lets see how many people farm it when there is 0% chance of striking it big and all you get are a handful of ales for your time.

If you ARE a low level guild, you get a strongbox with low rewards. BE a high level guild, get a strongbox with higher rewards.
So you have no advantage going down in the ladder, its better to stay high!

Still Number One · Jun 07, 2011, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Another problem has come to my attention during last nights AT. A.Net had to put in a stipulation that you had to be ranked in the top 1000 in order to get tournament reward points because we had guilds entering and just sitting idle throughout the tournament in order to get points.

Now, every single guild that has played a match is in the top 1000. Therefore, even if you have 0 wins and 1000 losses, you are still eligible for tournament reward points. So guilds can now just join the AT's, sit idle for all rounds while watching TV or something, and gain the 15 RP's for completing the tournament.

Action needs to be taken against these guilds as well. A.Net has already established in the past that this is not acceptable behavior by creating stipulations to get rid of it. So A.Net needs to do something about this as well. Maybe change it from 1000 ranking to needing 1000 or more rating.

Reverend Dr · Jun 07, 2011, 07:46 PM // 19:46

No one has really brought this up, but this type of farming also applies to the Zquest.

melissa b · Jun 07, 2011, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

No one has really brought this up, but this type of farming also applies to the Zquest.

Yep, its only that the strong box made cheatway so much more profitable and the ladder reset made the cheatway guilds stand out.

Shayne Hawke · Jun 07, 2011, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

Solution would be an invisble farming code, since pve awards are now in pvp the farming code should be carried over

Heres how it will work...

Farming Code will only apply to low rank guilds
Farming Code will gradually kick in for the strong box....based on a formula set up by anet
first it will remove possible rare drops like everlasting tonics and minipets
then it will start removing the better drops and so on until all thats left is the worst possible drops.

The formula will track time in match, resigns, frequency of matches, and so on.

Good lord, that is going to be a complex solution. Implementing PvE farming code for a range of guilds and have it affect their strongboxes? I'm going to bet that there's a much simpler solution for this problem somewhere here. Others who have proposals of limiting strongboxes to higher rating ranges or to a certain number in a period of time would probably be more reasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

So, people are farming an item that has a 1/1000 chance to give something nice, and you're complaining?

Last I knew, the boxes were going for 2e each on average. That's pretty nice in itself, for those who don't care to gamble on opening them on their own. The price might drop off after a bit, but for the time being, it's a pretty big steal to earn a couple ectos every few minutes for little to no effort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

It should be easy to fix though since it is easy to see who would be doing it. Just look at the bottom of the ladder and then run game logs for those guilds. If foul play is suspected then The participants and the guild should be banned.

Bans can eliminate the guilds and accounts that are currently participating in this behavior, but that doesn't mean they can't hop on other guilds or account and do the same thing, or that new players won't eventually try to do this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnicornStampede

solution to this: Make it so you can't resign before 2 minutes (or longer), so when the syncers aren't fighting the other sync guilds, it would take a lot longer for them to go in another match.

By design, R.R. guilds won't be playing against non-R.R. guilds very often at all, so this solution does practically nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Also they would need to remove the 1win per box ...after all thats what's making the farm possible

Not likely to happen until a system is put in place that could track victories and losses in GvG across multiple games. The only reason that they can do that with RA, CA, and HA is because those matches are strung together. With nothing to string victories together in GvG, the only option is to give players a box for a single win. Even then, well-coordinated R.R. guilds would just adjust the system in such a way that guilds would go for X matches until they resigned. If consecutive wins were not required, the same thing would happen, but it would just take a little longer to accumulate the wins for each box.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

I said it the first day that they should remove strongboxes from the reward system. They should just put them on the Zaishen Gold Coin vender. 1 gold coin seems like a fair price, this way even pve players have access to them.

The strongboxes were added as an incentive for people to play PvP. Why would we want to stick it on a Z-Coin vendor for PvE players to farm up? That would defeat the original purpose of the item, and it's not like we need to give PvEers more stuff to farm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathiastemplar

Idea:
Dishonor system for resigning.
Resigning within one minute could give 100 minutes of dishonor.
Resigning within 2 minutes = 90 minutes of Dishonor.
And so on.
After 5 minutes (maybe more) no dishonor should be given for resigning.

This should only apply to Rated and Daily GvGs.

Okay, so all you've done is force R.R. guilds to wait five minutes until resigning instead of two.

Quote:

Originally Posted by megaheadshot

the way i see it they should make it so you cant face the same guild winthin 24 hours of the previous match. if ppl make several guilds spot them then ban them.

edit: and make it so it costs more to make a guild so that you cant make any profit off "farming" this way

You already have to wait and face four (or is it five?) other guilds before you can face the same one again. This restriction alone can cause some slowness in the format at times or on levels where opponents of equal caliber are rare. Restricting it to a 24-hour time limit would be a very steep push in limiting how much guilds can play, and would likely hurt others more than it would hurt these offenders.

Increasing the cost of the guild too will also likely be more hurtful to others than these farmers. Sure, you might make it so that the farm isn't necessarily profitable,, but you could ruin some people's desires to even get a hall in the first place for their startup guild.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Go ahead and scale the drops based on the rating. If you beat a low level guild, you get a strongbox with low rewards. Beat a high level guild, get a strongbox with higher rewards. Lets see how many people farm it when there is 0% chance of striking it big and all you get are a handful of ales for your time.

Pretty much the OP's suggestion, yeah?

Probably the only way that this could be accomplished is by making multiple strongboxes for GvG, and giving them tiers (Champion's Strongbox I, Champion's Strongbox II, etc.) so that different boxes could be rewarded at different levels. Then it becomes a dispute over what rewards should be offered where, what levels the boxes should be available for, etc.

At the lower level, you'll likely end up with a strongbox chocked full of "junk" items like single-point consumables or something, at which point we just have to ask, "Why do we even have a strongbox for this," and following that, "Why didn't we just limit our first strongbox to the levels where the reasonable strongboxes are awarded?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

But , once again , what is done for people syncing codex easily + getting chests easily ?? what is done for people farming HA dead hours easily ??

These are problems of the formats, not of the boxes, I would say. If there was a decent solution for dead hours farmers of an arena, it might have been implemented in the last update. Under the current system, there's not much to do about them but increase the length of the string required for earning a strongbox, which will end up hurting the majority of the playerbase more than the farmers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nologic

Well they havent done anything wrong this time, it's the player base that are doing it wrong.
Anet only made PvP more rewarding. If people are resigning in GvG like RR day they are just bad players who doesn't deserve it.

Players who abuse the system should be banned.

Players shouldn't exploit systems when they find them, but loopholes like this should be closed up before they even exist too. You can't say that ANet isn't responsible for the abuse of this system when they skipped putting in more preventative measures to prevent exploitation in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papryk

then raise the time to 5 minutes + add the "kill guild lord" condition.
i dont think that ppl who rr will wait such amount of time + fighting

Can you make 2e every ~7 minutes? How much effort would that take you? Do you think it's worth your time? If there is indeed something that is consistently more profitable than this, then yes, people may cease doing it. I doubt it though, because the amount of actual effort required for R.R. is next to none.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthpaw

can you guys please confirm, after a long 28min game winning on lord damage, why is it that these strong boxes do not appear for the winner? was it just a once off glitch cause of that i thought u needed to kill the guild lord.

Strongboxes are only awarded for victories before the 28-minute mark, last I knew. This was intentional. The strongbox acts as a prize for those who have aggressive enough play to win the game before the tiebreak kicks in.

Essence Snow · Jun 07, 2011, 11:21 PM // 23:21

@ Shayne..thx for one of the better posts I have seen in quite some time as it addresses many posts w/o bias

cataphract · Jun 08, 2011, 06:09 AM // 06:09

I think it's time for a good old rollback and some bans. PvP should not give PvE rewards.

Kanyatta · Jun 08, 2011, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

I think it's time for a good old rollback and some bans. PvP should not give PvE rewards.

I can't tell if you actually believe yourself or if you're just a troll.

- Refer to drops from Strongboxes, such as tonics, Flames of Balthazar, party items, and minipets as "PvE rewards"

-- Flames of Balthazar give Balthazar Faction, which cannot be acquired in PvE, so how is that a PvE reward?
-- Almost all minipets are acquired from birthday presents, special events, access codes, etc. All of which can be acquired without even entering PvE. How is that a PvE reward? There are some minipets that are only PvE rewards, but that's a pretty small minority.
-- While some tonics are acquired from PvE chests, the majority can still be acquired from the Zaishen Chest and Birthday Presents, neither of which require PvE play. How are tonics in general a PvE reward?
--- Where do you even get the sense of entitlement that these rewards were specifically designed for those dedicated enough to play PvE and only PvE? You seem to feel that the PvE community deserves more shiny pixels than the PvP community, and I don't understand the deep-seated feelings behind that.

- Claim that PvE rewards should be reserved specifically for PvE play.
- Forget the title of the game is "Guild Wars", referring to GvG combat, the very idea this game was first based around.

On the whole, I'm sensing a couple truckloads of jealousy from the hardcore PvE crowd about Strongboxes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence_Snow

@ Shayne..thx for one of the better posts I have seen in quite some time as it addresses many posts w/o bias

He did address many of the points and pointed out how they would not work. However, any solution to this issue was not offered up.

Although, I suppose that lends itself to the fact that this is a pretty big beast of a problem that has no clear-looking solution outside of removing the boxes, which I personally don't think will happen.

Bright Star Shine · Jun 08, 2011, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

Then no one will ever see a strong box. Even at 26+ minutes, killing the lord takes a couples seconds. Plenty of time for the other team to resign out. No one will ever get strongboxes because people will just resign to troll them instead of letting their lord die.

This only proves how big of douches people can be.. When we did GvG with the guild I didn't know of the 2 minute restriction, I though that if the other team resigns, you don't get a box anyway. So when we got rolled by a bloody gold trim, I refused to resign because I thought it would rob them from their box...

cataphract · Jun 08, 2011, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote: