Curse

Reverend Dr · Jul 31, 2011, 01:26 PM // 13:26

GW Balance History 101: Something is overpowered. Lets buff counters!

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruk1a

I like, but TBH I'd prefer it stay as is. Don't make this shit like WoW where healers can fake cast you all damn day using zero resources while you waste your one interrupt and they get to freecast for 10 seconds. I don't know.. since monks are really the only competitive healers I'd be down to give this to them as a passive like in healing prayers or something. But really, I think fake casting would just be way too easy with 50% refund.

if you are a gw healer, and faking casting all damn day.. your teammates will probably die..., you don't spam heals to be a healer... you time heal....and interruption should just suffice to wreak your time healing, but not the mana as the same priority... if you want to interrupt also + mana drainage.. you have power leak for that......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

GW Balance History 101: Something is overpowered. Lets buff counters!

not just overpowered, and buff counters... it is a promotion of skillful play of cast cancelling...unless you think cast cancel is not attribute to one....

there is nothing cast cancel should be affecting more than positioning, and timing your skills,..which is what gw pvp dynamics need to promote...but if you add en into the equation, you are blocking positioning and skill timing, but promoting more c spacing player skill of spamming, since cast cancelling is not viable due to huge mana cost...

is not something like spiking is overpower, you buff interruption..and interruption kills monk etc..

DiogoSilva · Jul 31, 2011, 03:22 PM // 15:22

The biggest problem with canceling skills is with elementalists. Their spells are costly, and they only gain energy back after a successful cast. And because they're the easiest targets to rupt, they are the ones that need this strategy the most.

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

The biggest problem with canceling skills is with elementalists. Their spells are costly, and they only gain energy back after a successful cast. And because they're the easiest targets to rupt, they are the ones that need this strategy the most.

same as ritualist...

kedde · Jul 31, 2011, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Anyone agreeing with the OP suggestion needs to revise their approach to pvp knowledge/experience.

Xsiriss · Jul 31, 2011, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Just play intelligently,sheesh. If there are 'rupters on you or hell even around, dummy with spells that are less important to your team. If you got your energy back for cancelling you'd see stale and boring games, which is worse than having slightly OP pressure.

Reverend Dr · Jul 31, 2011, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

not just overpowered, and buff counters... it is a promotion of skillful play of cast cancelling...unless you think cast cancel is not attribute to one....

Cancel cast is skillful if it has a cost. If cancel casting didn't have a cost then we'd have people cancel casting until they get a half cast proc, just like what happened with GoLE back when.

It sounds like a good idea if you only look at one very narrow aspect of the relation between casting and interrupting. If cancel casting becomes completely free then there are far worse and "less-skillful" playstyles that will result.

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Cancel cast is skillful if it has a cost. If cancel casting didn't have a cost then we'd have people cancel casting until they get a half cast proc, just like what happened with GoLE back when.

It sounds like a good idea if you only look at one very narrow aspect of the relation between casting and interrupting. If cancel casting becomes completely free then there are far worse and "less-skillful" playstyles that will result.

do the compromised version of returning 50% mana like coast suggested, and it will be a lot better...

a ritualist will never cancel cast a shelter...costing 25 en.......forcing him/her to must bring an anti interrupt skills......

but then..how about a KD skills, chaser/sticker, there is no room whatsoever for him to cancel cast even once....cancel cast 1 time, and the second time, you get. kd/interrupted, 50 en already gone...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Just play intelligently,sheesh. If there are 'rupters on you or hell even around, dummy with spells that are less important to your team. If you got your energy back for cancelling you'd see stale and boring games, which is worse than having slightly OP pressure.

I don't think it will be more stale and boring.. because once you cancel cast the time cost of not casting a skill is still there........

and as time goes, pressure is > the opponent not doing/can't do anything..

imagine if you are a monk trying to remove a diversion from another monk.. and a mesmer is interrupting you and you keep cancel casting... the diversion from another monk is already lapsed...... 1 single Mesmer rendered 2 dead monks ...

Reikai · Aug 01, 2011, 01:46 AM // 01:46

skill cancels can be free if interrupts have no recharge and no mana cost if it did not interrupt a skill.

lursey · Aug 01, 2011, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reikai

skill cancels can be free if interrupts have no recharge and no mana cost if it did not interrupt a skill.

if skill cancel is free, you can skill cancel your interrupt too

HigherMinion · Aug 01, 2011, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reikai

skill cancels can be free if interrupts have no recharge and no mana cost if it did not interrupt a skill.

This makes sense. End of discussion, we are all in agreement. Don't make the game even easier for bad players!

lursey · Aug 01, 2011, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

This makes sense. End of discussion, we are all in agreement. Don't make the game even easier for bad players!

yep.. change it to 50% mana back when skill cancel, boo to all bad players who doesn't skill cancel..

gogogogo

Chocolate_Prayers · Aug 01, 2011, 05:00 AM // 05:00

1) No cost on cancelled skills -> make interrupts useless
which will lead to:
2) No interrupt cost -> make all skills useless
which will lead to:
3) No cost for any skills -> spam central
which will lead to:
4) Spam Central -> every skill gets a nerf (energy cost added)
which will lead to step 1..

Sounds like a vicious cycle.

Swingline · Aug 01, 2011, 05:46 AM // 05:46

I think the OP got the shit rupted out of him and so he came here to QQ.

Interrupts in GWs are a broken mechanic simply because there are too many of them, same goes for knock downs(stuns). Mesmers and Rangers will sit on one target and prevent them from playing the game and you may get a few skills off due to canceling but it doesn't provide a fun experience except for the interrupter. Having a skill interrupted in the first place is punishment enough but most of them come with a very broken effect such as huge damage or disabling skills for lengthy periods of time only to be interrupted and disabled again. The problem shouldn't be dealt with by power creeping all skills but to target the interrupts themselves, an example is PB which is a retarded skill to begin with. Remember those prophecies days when we didn't have magebane, PI, powerlock and all those other annoyances? Those were the days when interrupts were balanced because of the limited number they had. Even though I agree that interrupts are downright retarded atm this is not the way to counter them.

/notsigned

Missing HB · Aug 01, 2011, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

The problem shouldn't be dealt with by power creeping all skills but to target the interrupts themselves, an example is PB which is a retarded skill to begin with. Remember those prophecies days when we didn't have magebane, PI, powerlock and all those other annoyances? Those were the days when interrupts were balanced because of the limited number they had. Even though I agree that interrupts are downright retarded atm this is not the way to counter them.

I agree with this... there are way too many rupts and having 3 of them in a bar usually doesn't fit with some formats ( i.e Altar Hold maps in HA, RA having no heal , ..)

lursey · Aug 01, 2011, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

I think the OP got the shit rupted out of him and so he came here to QQ.

Interrupts in GWs are a broken mechanic simply because there are too many of them, same goes for knock downs(stuns). Mesmers and Rangers will sit on one target and prevent them from playing the game and you may get a few skills off due to canceling but it doesn't provide a fun experience except for the interrupter. Having a skill interrupted in the first place is punishment enough but most of them come with a very broken effect such as huge damage or disabling skills for lengthy periods of time only to be interrupted and disabled again. The problem shouldn't be dealt with by power creeping all skills but to target the interrupts themselves, an example is PB which is a retarded skill to begin with. Remember those prophecies days when we didn't have magebane, PI, powerlock and all those other annoyances? Those were the days when interrupts were balanced because of the limited number they had. Even though I agree that interrupts are downright retarded atm this is not the way to counter them.

/notsigned

there were times that ranger has chocking gas, seeking arrow + distracting/salvage/punishing shot.... during the era of prophecies only.....still you could put a lot on a bar..

at that time, 2 ranger in a build in hoh to interrupts cap promoted this skillful play, that's why in today there are lots of different types of interruption, to promote less c spacing spamming skill,

but it is not overpower because there are a lot of interruption skills...it is overpower, because there is not a skillful action that is leveled with interruption other than skill cancel....

in comparison, because skill cancel is not viable due to the high cost of it.. it is not feasible for any player to even want it to use it as an anti-measure making interruption over-powered...

and whats most importantly, this skillful action of interruption if there isn't a anti-skillful action, it will only be dominated by the usage of mesmer/ranger/etc.

but to other class, they can't use it to receive the benefit of being skillful.. so its narrowed down to promoting skillful play just to those interrupting class... which is unfair to other classes..

Swingline · Aug 01, 2011, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

there were times that ranger has chocking gas, seeking arrow + distracting/salvage/punishing shot.... during the era of prophecies only.....still you could put a lot on a bar..

Seeking Arrows is factions... in prophecies the spike ranger was rendered useless by skills such as aegis and guardian back then before factions.

lursey · Aug 01, 2011, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Seeking Arrows is factions... in prophecies the spike ranger was rendered useless by skills such as aegis and guardian back then before factions.

but still it is a skill vs skill... not a player skill...

what I want to say.. it is certainly not a definite fix, but it can reduce the overpowering of interruption....

that's why I raised a question in the op of what will happen if there are a abuse of skill cancel....

and I couldn't find one that is really persuasive as to a decrease of competitiveness if skill cancel makes no mana, or perhaps 50% mana return..

Swingline · Aug 01, 2011, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

but still it is a skill vs skill... not a player skill...

what I want to say.. it is certainly not a definite fix, but it can reduce the overpowering of interruption....

that's why I raised a question in the op of what will happen if there are a abuse of skill cancel....

and I couldn't find one that is really persuasive as to a decrease of competitiveness if skill cancel makes no mana, or perhaps 50% mana return..

But this is not the way to solve the problem with interruption, it is a band-aid and the live team does not like band-aids. Therefore the best approach is to look at the skills that interrupt and make the appropriate changes.

lursey · Aug 01, 2011, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

But this is not the way to solve the problem with interruption, it is a band-aid and the live team does not like band-aids. Therefore the best approach is to look at the skills that interrupt and make the appropriate changes.

why is this a band-aid, if it promotes skillful play?

so is the fluxes system a band-aid?