Curse

Missing HB · Aug 25, 2011, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Even then the prevailing reason that so many, myself included, wanted them out of the game was that they were:
1) not satisfying to play with (If we didn't have 8 humans, we'd rather do nothing than grab a hero)
2) not satisfying to play against (We would rather lose to 8 humans than steamroll a team with heroes)

Your 2 arguments are making no sense... Basically, you tell players " play on euro evening or uninstall "

WHat about :
- is that satisfying to face 3 dervish on every fight today?
- is that satisfying that blahks and tutella cannot heal the ghostly hero ?
- is that satisfying to not be able to play the format while 1 guild is doing the same every morning to get free hall wins ?

I can understand Dirk/bellicus can be a little annoying, but seriously, did we see hench teams getting a good score ever on a MaT ??

Besides, you can't deny that the game has gotten worse and worse since the day they removed heroes from PvP....

superraptors · Aug 25, 2011, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I didn't see many heroes in top 200 GvG. I don't know / don't care about HA.

Also good for you that you'd rather do nothing than play with heroes, but I'm the opposite. I can't count the number of times I've tried to form GvG and there hadn't been enough players. One time maybe, but if you keep trying and failing for two whole weeks you might change your mind.

PS: I don't find it unsatisfying if I beat to a team with henchmen, although I admit I feel like an idiot if I lose to one.
PPS: Heroes do nothing a player can't do, and they come with lots of intrinsic disadvantages. Somehow I feel that people lose to heroway because they play bad. Before you start mentioning Gwen's 1337 interrupts, I'll say that if interrupts are the problem, nerf hero AI, not remove heroes from PvP.

people ran smiting heroes, they are godly at multitasking, pre protting and removing conditions and hexes straight away u seem pretty cluless...

floor · Aug 25, 2011, 08:31 AM // 08:31

@ missing HB
Yes the game has gotten less active, worse too probably, but thats a result of several issues such as the age of the game, perhaps some bad balancing, players quitting to do real life stuff. It almost certainly has nothing to do with heroes being removed from gvg/ha lol.

Im also assuming you dont ever try to play gvg/ha, because its rarely as dead as you make it out to be. Although i do concede its much much worse than it was 3-5 years ago.

Euro hours is very playable.
American hours is still playable, maybe u have to wait 3mins for a match instead of 10s 3 years ago, but its still not rly a long time.
Asian Hours is the worst of all, but if you really want to play then it depends on you knowing the right people. The B AT has at least 5, usually around 10, guilds every single day. Thats 80+ ppl, not including the ones who are not in the AT. Unfortunately for those players who are actually from asia, in order to play its necessary that you get to know the euros with no school/job/life to go to, so that they can play at 11am every day. Deleting asian servers back in 2007(?) was probably the single biggest mistake anet ever made. Koreans and japanese players on late at night made euro hours more competitive, asians on early made american hours more competitive, and koreans on at all meant you could play the game right through the whole 24h of a day combined with the euro and american timezone players.

Back on topic, if you made hero AI worse, (and it should always of sucked to encourage grouping with players), it would be impossible to win a match with heroway (it kinda was already without spamming hexes at rank 2k), so people wouldnt play it anyway. When heroes were removed, nothing of value was lost.

Just go out and expand your circle of friends, then you wont need heroes.

Jeydra · Aug 25, 2011, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

people ran smiting heroes, they are godly at multitasking, pre protting and removing conditions and hexes straight away u seem pretty cluless...

And ReX got owned every single mAT they played, don't think they ever won bronze, despite Smiting heroes being so godly. What's your point?

@floor - two things:

1. Asian timezones are so dead I'm sorely tempted to simply stop trying to form. It doesn't work. I've added over 20 people to my friend's list yet there usually are only 5-6 people online at any one time, many of which aren't available to guest. Several players were active only a short while and then completely disappeared. Others, particularly the more skilled ones that I'm keen to guest, tend to already be guesting or playing themselves ... or playing RA (*cough* you *cough*).

There are guilds that play the AT B, but most of them don't play very consistently and even after I PM'ed some of the people I saw on obs they didn't seem very interested in guesting. I even requested alliance with KvZ, who were (according to two people I talked to) allied only with themselves and their smurfs, and I got no response.

If you know any players who are often online during Asian timezone please tell me so I can guest them. Maybe Asian timezones won't be so dead then.

2. It's always been difficult to win with heroway if you play against a decent team. It's been difficult even with hero AI the way it is now. I firmly believe that if a guild is unable to beat a team that uses characters who can't split, can't weaponswap and can't kite well deserve to lose.

Heroes shouldn't have been removed from GvG. Using them was already inferior to using humans, but they gave more options when you can't find the players or have an emergency (which guild missed out on silver last mAT because they used Luzy Fiera?).

superraptors · Aug 25, 2011, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

And ReX got owned every single mAT they played, don't think they ever won bronze, despite Smiting heroes being so godly. What's your point?

@floor - two things:

1. Asian timezones are so dead I'm sorely tempted to simply stop trying to form. It doesn't work. I've added over 20 people to my friend's list yet there usually are only 5-6 people online at any one time, many of which aren't available to guest. Several players were active only a short while and then completely disappeared. Others, particularly the more skilled ones that I'm keen to guest, tend to already be guesting or playing themselves ... or playing RA (*cough* you *cough*).

There are guilds that play the AT B, but most of them don't play very consistently and even after I PM'ed some of the people I saw on obs they didn't seem very interested in guesting. I even requested alliance with KvZ, who were (according to two people I talked to) allied only with themselves and their smurfs, and I got no response.

If you know any players who are often online during Asian timezone please tell me so I can guest them. Maybe Asian timezones won't be so dead then.

2. It's always been difficult to win with heroway if you play against a decent team. It's been difficult even with hero AI the way it is now. I firmly believe that if a guild is unable to beat a team that uses characters who can't split, can't weaponswap and can't kite well deserve to lose.

Heroes shouldn't have been removed from GvG. Using them was already inferior to using humans, but they gave more options when you can't find the players or have an emergency (which guild missed out on silver last mAT because they used Luzy Fiera?).

clearly you have issues getting to know people. because i do at b with my aussie fellas and guesting atleast 3+ different people each time, and you are saying heroes don't get you far then why would you want to play with heroes anyway?

Jeydra · Aug 25, 2011, 01:56 PM // 13:56

I challenge you to name who these "aussie fellas" are. All the Aussies I know haven't played the AT B for at least a week, possibly more.

Since heroes don't get you far why bother removing them from GvG?

superraptors · Aug 25, 2011, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I challenge you to name who these "aussie fellas" are. All the Aussies I know haven't played the AT B for at least a week, possibly more.

Since heroes don't get you far why bother removing them from GvG?

6 aussies playing in dota, i never said heroes dont get you far, im taking these assumptions right out of your own statement.

Jeydra · Aug 25, 2011, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Give me their IGNs.

And yes, I believe heroes don't get you far. What's your point?

floor · Aug 25, 2011, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

If you know any players who are often online during Asian timezone please tell me so I can guest them. Maybe Asian timezones won't be so dead then.

a lot of the dutch/belgian guys from pzz are usually on, same as the guys (and girl) from KvZ. Quite regularly those serbian people from sky bar or sth are on too. Then u got like Mindless Team who seem to B AT a lot, and eLuv players are pretty often too. Theres also Russia (player not the country) and whoever hes playing with at the time, which in many cases will be some russian players, who's timezone is actually more suited to B AT's than a lot of europe. The french guys from [love] are often online early when they play, mind, magrosse etc. Also the frenchies from [Emo/AmeN] occasionally show up in B AT's. I think generally just french ppl as a whole seem to be online a lot at that time of day. There are also other various players who are regularly online for B AT times, brutel, zrox (and other ppl from [SupG]), living, wratto, TJ etc etc

Theres usually a load of ppl on at around the time of the B AT and for a cuple hours afterwards, its just knowing who they are, and where to find them. A lot of ppl sit around on vents and things, they're free to play, just not online.

Then consider that my above list does not contain anyone from asia or america (or euros who moved to australia such as ronaldo from sC!), and there are also other europeans who could be added to the list who i either didnt think of or dont know.

Pugging asian timezone is a challenge, but if u know the right ppl and have a decent friendslist, not impossible.

Missing HB · Aug 25, 2011, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Big problem is active GvG'ers ( aka the ones playing on euro evening ) are convinced that it's easy to get in GvG and there are fights at anytime... and yet any non active GvG'er will tell you the opposite.... that's pretty strange isn't it ? You know, if i just played ( probably like you do) on 8-9pm only every day, i wouldn't say it's inactive... unfortunately i don't really, and i advice you try to play on like 7-11am GMT and try to argue then...

Also, i can tell you i do play a lot GvG and HA these days and it's the same for both... HA being the worst...

Only diference with GvG is that you usually end up facing some rating 500 guild... but they leave at begin so that's quite the same as if you didn't play...

side note ( a bit off topic) : i'm pretty sure there would be more guilds on At/MAT if hours were quite diferent.... Having the choice between noon or night isn't really cool...

Jeydra · Aug 25, 2011, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I should've asked you for those names weeks ago floor, now maybe I can finally organize AT Bs more often !!

X CDH X · Aug 25, 2011, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Well mainly the problem is there are few people playing PvP and even fewer that want to help the PvEers get better and a whole lot of people complaining but not trying hard enough to improve.

Randomways are just failways and constantly lose and doing stuff like RTL you can't really learn the maps as you don't tend to win many matches lol....

If people want to start to learn to PvP now they will have to put in a lot of effort or join with a PvP guild I would say. I keep trying to get my friend to do some PvP stuff but although he has about 36+ maxed titles he is pretty much clueless on builds for PvP.

I maybe do a 75/25 PvE/PvP split with game time on Guild Wars but I managed to get GWAMM in PvE and R4 Hero and G1 which is ok I suppose, so if I can do it anyone can lol

superraptors · Aug 26, 2011, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Give me their IGNs.

And yes, I believe heroes don't get you far. What's your point?

so if heroes don't get you far then whats the point in having them? you answered your own question.

you are much thicker then i first thought, I'll leave it at that, also probably the reason why you are unable to get guested or acquire guests.

Jeydra · Aug 26, 2011, 12:33 AM // 00:33

So if heroes don't get you far what's the point in removing them? You have not answered the question.

Reikai · Aug 26, 2011, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

so if heroes don't get you far then whats the point in having them? you answered your own question.

you are much thicker then i first thought, I'll leave it at that, also probably the reason why you are unable to get guested or acquire guests.

Not getting far is not the same as going nowhere.

Missing HB · Aug 26, 2011, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

so if heroes don't get you far then whats the point in having them? you answered your own question.

His point was heroes/henchs i guess.. as long as we can pick those to get match quicker... but assuming you're right... what was the point of having that henchman contest then?? All those henchs they added should have some better use....

Besides, the reason for me to get heroes/henchs teams ( after inactivity) is also about too boring metas ( HA especially)... it would be cool to just get the build i want and run it without expecting the classic : " i gtg " followed by " me too " then disband after you lost 2 times...

side note : people not believing me can press B right now, people are syncing HA to get easy wins... really, how pathetic the format is because we cannot use henchs there for no reason....