Curse

Lithril Ashwalker · Aug 03, 2011, 12:35 PM // 12:35

ive personally pondered the possibilities and viewed the other threads on how to increase activity and lessen or remove elitism entirely. ive seen from adding more pvp rewards to adding more points per match and zaishan...all doesn't look to good however:

What if districts or outposts were made much like the Local District and Foreign District of Vizunah Square but only separating us based on rank? e.g.
ranks 0-3 would have their own zaishan, HA maps(vs each other 0-3 ranks), and even a 0-3 ranked halls. then you have the higher ranked say....4-8 and so forth each having a specific ranked halls match. giving each ranked group the attempt to have a closest match in rank pinned against each other.

If someone ranks up from 3-4 and they are in a match the match can continue going on and on up until something happens to kick the player out such as losing or connection loss AE.

the servers in mind could do as you JQ, AB, and FA guys see it...other groups get in but u have to wait, but eventually youll fight your own match while another still goes on...but in Heros Ascent you can have more than one halls (one for each rank:{0-3 own HoH}).

Solutions:
Easier to find pugs
learning the ropes easier
HA wont be dead as is now
bring a new experience to all players.

suggestions? add-ons? please post thoughts.
please no trolling, "it wont work"(takes up time to view), or Anet wont do it's.

lursey · Aug 03, 2011, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

ive personally pondered the possibilities and viewed the other threads on how to increase activity and lessen or remove elitism entirely. ive seen from adding more pvp rewards to adding more points per match and zaishan...all doesn't look to good however:

What if districts or outposts were made much like the Local District and Foreign District of Vizunah Square but only separating us based on rank? e.g.
ranks 0-3 would have their own zaishan, HA maps(vs each other 0-3 ranks), and even a 0-3 ranked halls. then you have the higher ranked say....4-8 and so forth each having a specific ranked halls match. giving each ranked group the attempt to have a closest match in rank pinned against each other.

If someone ranks up from 3-4 and they are in a match the match can continue going on and on up until something happens to kick the player out such as losing or connection loss AE.

the servers in mind could do as you JQ, AB, and FA guys see it...other groups get in but u have to wait, but eventually youll fight your own match while another still goes on...but in Heros Ascent you can have more than one halls (one for each rank:{0-3 own HoH}).

Solutions:
Easier to find pugs
learning the ropes easier
HA wont be dead as is now
bring a new experience to all players.

suggestions? add-ons? please post thoughts.
please no trolling, "it wont work"(takes up time to view), or Anet wont do it's.

your idea only assume there is an automatically many players of a rank group...

what happen if there are only 3 rank 12 people
and 5 rank 6 people
and 2 rank 0 people
etc..

there will be still no games at all..even harder to get any game going to be honest..

Fate Crusher · Aug 03, 2011, 01:14 PM // 13:14

My account is r9. My whole guild is r12+, my friends list and alliances etc. This suggestion would mean I can't play with my friends.

Thanks

Categorizing teams could work, it would be similar to grouping levels in other MMOs (10-19, 20-29 etc) where PvP instances are only for those levels in order to make it more balanced. However, categorizing by ranks would not only split up groups of friends, but would also mean guilds will not be able to have "HA gurus"/mentors with a higher rank to teach new players and break them into the mould, groups would be forced to play without inspiration.

Granted, they will be playing with equally low experienced teams, but I still think this will divide the community even further.
This may have worked when titles were being implemented, and ranks started to get REALLY important, it would have made finding groups easier.

I think it comes down to the nature of the tournament style of things in HA, where eventually the stronger teams advance and win Halls and the weaker teams are eliminated and are forced to start again. The act of repeating the first few levels was supposed to make things simple. Simple elimination rounds with no extra goals until further down the "tournament". With a higher player base, new teams and less experienced teams were able to use the first few maps for training and getting better, since they were most likely to be playing other aspiring teams. This would be because the more experienced and better teams would have advanced already to the later stages and be competing on more advanced goals and commit to tactics such as relic runs and KotH.

tldr: A higher player base meant the tournament style of HA was able to pair similar skilled teams for the most part. Nowadays, unless it's HA quest, every team of every level of experience will get skips/hall skips and get plunged in the deep end against people who've done this for 5/6 years. Me

(retired now)

Reverend Dr · Aug 03, 2011, 01:47 PM // 13:47

So your answer to lack of a population is to further divide the population?

We barely have enough people to keep one halls going, how the hell are we supposed to suddenly have enough to keep three?

Lithril Ashwalker · Aug 03, 2011, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

My account is r9. My whole guild is r12+, my friends list and alliances etc. This suggestion would mean I can't play with my friends.

Thanks

Categorizing teams could work, it would be similar to grouping levels in other MMOs (10-19, 20-29 etc) where PvP instances are only for those levels in order to make it more balanced. However, categorizing by ranks would not only split up groups of friends, but would also mean guilds will not be able to have "HA gurus"/mentors with a higher rank to teach new players and break them into the mould, groups would be forced to play without inspiration.

Granted, they will be playing with equally low experienced teams, but I still think this will divide the community even further.
This may have worked when titles were being implemented, and ranks started to get REALLY important, it would have made finding groups easier.

I think it comes down to the nature of the tournament style of things in HA, where eventually the stronger teams advance and win Halls and the weaker teams are eliminated and are forced to start again. The act of repeating the first few levels was supposed to make things simple. Simple elimination rounds with no extra goals until further down the "tournament". With a higher player base, new teams and less experienced teams were able to use the first few maps for training and getting better, since they were most likely to be playing other aspiring teams. This would be because the more experienced and better teams would have advanced already to the later stages and be competing on more advanced goals and commit to tactics such as relic runs and KotH.

tldr: A higher player base meant the tournament style of HA was able to pair similar skilled teams for the most part. Nowadays, unless it's HA quest, every team of every level of experience will get skips/hall skips and get plunged in the deep end against people who've done this for 5/6 years. Me

(retired now)

so u say there are "mentors or gurus" to teach u out there ? ive played for 78 months + and still haven't found anyone willing to teach without kicking u later on after using u as a filler in the team.

drowze · Aug 03, 2011, 02:48 PM // 14:48

I am pretty new to HA myself (just got my bambi less than a week ago

),
and even though it may seem impossible to find a group in the beginning, if you are patient enough you will surely encounter teams of mixed rank that would be willing to take you along. I have played with r12+ people and it helped me achieve my first win in HoH for example

Even though I play just casually, and had no rank (I did have gladiator tier 2, to show I had at least a very minimum of pvp exp), I got 2 invites into pvp guilds without actively looking for one... one of them being r6+

My point is just that even though there is of course rank discrimination, and just as pve, pvp has a significant amount of elitists, there are plenty of friendly people around that don't mind learning newer players a thing or two.

so /notsigned ^^

lursey · Aug 03, 2011, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

so u say there are "mentors or gurus" to teach u out there ? ive played for 78 months + and still haven't found anyone willing to teach without kicking u later on after using u as a filler in the team.

you have played 78 months +, I think you should be the one who does the teaching instead...

Mireles · Aug 03, 2011, 03:14 PM // 15:14

I've always said the problem with pvp is a reward focused format... before fame and faction and HoH was in tomes... u could just port into tombs and get invited without asking.... As long as people's focus is win based rewards/titles... it will always be what it is... and the most recent pvp reward update just seemed to make things worse when it come to exploitation of rewards....

I wouldnt sign to segrigate ranks.... I would sign however a unranked version of arena that rewarded absoultly nothing to serve kinda a sand box for players to get feet wet (maybe with npc opponent option)... once u break the HoM requirement for the respective pvp format your no longer allowed in the sand box.

Fate Crusher · Aug 03, 2011, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

so u say there are "mentors or gurus" to teach u out there ? ive played for 78 months + and still haven't found anyone willing to teach without kicking u later on after using u as a filler in the team.

You read my whole post and that's all you got out of it?
I was nice enough to give you a proper response to your suggestion.

I'm not saying there is an active movement of high ranked players willing to teach new people, but it's an example of having somebody in your guild who has played HA more than you and will coincidentally have a higher rank. Your suggestion cuts that out.

Its seperating guilds and friends lists in to ranks and I don't really agree with this.

I've been playing HA on and off for 5 years and I'll tell you now, it's always been about who's on your friends list. I was lucky to join WoTU before we went mega HA oriented so I can't speak about exactly how finding a group is like when you're low ranked.

78+ months would mean your account is older than Beta players btw. February 18th 2005 was the first Beta event for pre-orders.

Missing HB · Aug 03, 2011, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

So your answer to lack of a population is to further divide the population?

We barely have enough people to keep one halls going, how the hell are we supposed to suddenly have enough to keep three?

This puts an end to the thread ...
Furthermore, inactivity on r6+ areas will lead to people using second accounts in lower rank ones and it won't change anything....

*lemming* · Aug 03, 2011, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Someone suggests this every couple of months.

Lithril Ashwalker · Aug 04, 2011, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

I've always said the problem with pvp is a reward focused format... before fame and faction and HoH was in tomes... u could just port into tombs and get invited without asking.... As long as people's focus is win based rewards/titles... it will always be what it is... and the most recent pvp reward update just seemed to make things worse when it come to exploitation of rewards....

I wouldnt sign to segrigate ranks.... I would sign however a unranked version of arena that rewarded absoultly nothing to serve kinda a sand box for players to get feet wet (maybe with npc opponent option)... once u break the HoM requirement for the respective pvp format your no longer allowed in the sand box.

this actually isnt a bad idea, without players experiencing it first hand without a consequence they wont attempt it, some get discouraged.....and i absolutely don't mean such a thing crusher, just something on the likeness of it. if we could make it worth while for NEW players to be willing to get in without elitism taking over....just a game. im sure we could get everything balanced out.

sandbox was a really great idea, if anything it should lower the elitism

Fate Crusher · Aug 04, 2011, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

I've always said the problem with pvp is a reward focused format... before fame and faction and HoH was in tomes... u could just port into tombs and get invited without asking.... As long as people's focus is win based rewards/titles... it will always be what it is... and the most recent pvp reward update just seemed to make things worse when it come to exploitation of rewards....

I wouldnt sign to segrigate ranks.... I would sign however a unranked version of arena that rewarded absoultly nothing to serve kinda a sand box for players to get feet wet (maybe with npc opponent option)... once u break the HoM requirement for the respective pvp format your no longer allowed in the sand box.

The problem is that the game has become a lot more complicated than it was during Prophecies. This may have worked when the skill pool was still small and the map rotation was as it was in 2005/06.

But it would also ultimately mean organised guild/friend teams would dominate even more. Because there will be a higher percentage of PUGs. It may solve grouping issues, but it will severely effect gameplay.

If this were to be implemented right now, it must be a separate PvP format, also tournament style, but with ever changing obectives on the map rotation. It would mean players will get to sample the different maps, get to know their roles and not jeopardise win streaks via inexperience. However, with the way everything is turning out, it's going to need some type of reward. Imperial Faction? Strongboxes? Every form of PvP now gives monetary reward now, therefore this will have to as well. Otherwise players will just say "Why should I play this if i can just farm strongboxes in RA? or farm the HoH chest?"

I have been commenting on ideas but I haven't suggested my own, only to hint at improving other suggestions. So I'll take a stab.

Remove all ranks up until r12, this will solve the elitism. To solve inactivity and to breath life back into HA? reward guilds rating for winning HoH. Maybe even small rating versus top 200 in maps before HoH. It will create more guilds, make for better experience and allow new players to join HA guilds with a REAL goal, not just form Invoke spike and hope for the best.

Why stop promoting PUGing? I think it's pretty obvious, considering people haven't stopped QQing about it for 6 years. It's also another reason why GvG players consider HA a lower level of PvP since you can PUG and gank 3 ways. Oh and you can't solve ganks, it will always happen.

Reverend Dr · Aug 04, 2011, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

so u say there are "mentors or gurus" to teach u out there ? ive played for 78 months + and still haven't found anyone willing to teach without kicking u later on after using u as a filler in the team.

Stop looking to pug in ID1.

This usually fixes all issues that people complain about.

superraptors · Aug 06, 2011, 06:44 AM // 06:44

agreed tooms will be more dead if there is 2 instances, also tooms is starting to be synced.

Missing HB · Aug 06, 2011, 07:25 AM // 07:25

It is already synced for some time now.....But well, syncing there is a consequence of terrible stuff... If only :
1- hall map was more fair to play as 1v1, maybe more players would try
2- hall holders didn't get a "format control" : if they decide to quit halls, basically, you will have to wait 2 hours to get an hall fight...
3- it was easier to enter on dead hours

This leads to :
- either you cannot ever play HA on those hours
- either you sync it

Styxgyan · Aug 06, 2011, 10:49 AM // 10:49

A sugestion to encourage new/low level players to play HA may be:
Add the rank level of all party members (considering henchmen as a rank X

) and compare it with the other team:
-If the difference is from Z to Y ranks and the lower rank team win, that team gets 1 extra fame point in that battle.
-If the difference is from Y to X ranks and the lower rank team win, that team gets 2 extra fame point in that battle.

The extra points are almost insignificant for high ranks players, they'll get the same amount of fame in their long-runs. But for low level players will add an extra motivation to learn and play HA.
Maybe high rank players will play with their 2nd/low level accounts to get more fame faster, but this won't work on their main/high level accounts.

superraptors · Aug 06, 2011, 11:32 AM // 11:32

still playing for fame in 2011? hmmm pretty sure most people are doing it for the keys and boxes so increase that count or pvp rewards.

Swingline · Aug 06, 2011, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

agreed tooms will be more dead if there is 2 instances, also tooms is starting to be synced.

tooms is being synced now? burn it, burn it with fire to the ground. Ill bring the napalm.

Lawliet Kira · Aug 12, 2011, 06:12 AM // 06:12

If you dont have a rank, do what i do, form your own group of r9+, it seems the people in the group never seem to question the leaders rank