Curse

A11Eur0 · Dec 10, 2010, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Is there a reason you're saying this, or are you just inserting a claim and hoping it doesn't get questioned?

It's the truth. Ectos were not created to be currency, the playerbase simply adapted them to function as such for items of value. They could have used Decayed Orr Emblems or Truffles as currency instead. In fact, current prices show that rubies and sapphires would be a more stable currency than Ectos and especially Armbraces. But since Armbraces go for quite a bit more than either ectos or gems, they continue to enjoy their place at the top.

What I have issue with is the requirement that everything cost so damn much.

Black Metal · Dec 10, 2010, 01:16 AM // 01:16

/signed /signed and again /signed

the requirement to pay in ectos, armbraces, and placeholders obviously was never intended. The time wasted in-game buying and selling ectos just to get around the cap, or to complete high-end trades is crazy.

this is a no-brainer, no drawback, all upside deal.

edit: reading back a few pages and it's funny how ecto hoarders are against it. I've got 2 stacks of ectos and I don't care if they become worth half what they are now, this suggestion is a matter of integrity and principal.

It SERSIOUSLY sucks when another guild in my alliance suddently puts in alliance chat, 1 spot left for FoW leaving in 5 min, when my storage is at 1000k and all my toons are at 100k. When you literally lose a reward because you can't hold any more, and have to spam in GTOB to buy a freakin zkey just to do something in-game.

Lanier · Dec 10, 2010, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie_of_doom

Because buying things is hard. I have had my thread open for years and I'm not going to bother with Spammadan.
Also, just to point it out, I myself do not think that it is hard to buy ectos.
And, please, stop using the argument that Anet has better things to do. It does not matter in essence.

I don't know what your trying to buy, but I have no problem spending my gold. Lockpicks are easy to find, as are kegs of ale, Zkeys, etc. I also spend money on prizes for games that I play with my guildies... so yea, I dont see how you could have trouble buying stuff (unless you have already finished everything left to do in the game... in which case, why are you still playing?)

The argument that anet has better things to do is perfectly valid. I would far rather them work on skill updates or the hero updates than on something useless like this. Its that simple, and yes, that is a perfectly valid argument.

gremlin · Dec 10, 2010, 02:43 AM // 02:43

It has become blindingly obvious in this thread "not that it was ever in doubt" that the only reason not to either increase the gold cap or add a third tier of currency was the importance of ectos and similar to some players.

Those with stacks of ectos are quite rightly against a change that does not benefit them and may indeed ruin them.
So we either say to them tough luck or we try to minimise or remove any loss in their bank balance.

I suggest that since there are valid arguments on both sides we look for a compromise solution.

Firstly fix the ecto at its current price 9.5k at the moment.
I know ectos are rare materials not currency but lets ignore that for the moment and have the xunlai storage accept them as currency and offer a conversion service at the current ecto-platinum price.

result players will still farm ectos since they are valuable and needed for high end items.
Those players will no longer have to spend valuable farming time standing around selling them just dump them in storage and go back to the game.

Any player wanting to buy a high end item off another player can happily have the money on them so those trades go faster.

I don't see that anyone can complain about this no one loses money everyone trades faster and farmers still farm.

any problems with this I haven't thought of.

Black Metal · Dec 10, 2010, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

any problems with this I haven't thought of.

yes, and you even pointed it out: ectos are rare materials and their price at the trader depends on the economy. Ectos do vary in price, as skills are nerfed, broken, or certain bars get out to the public that are quite condusive to farming ectos.

Ectos should really be taken out of this equation, because the problem isn't ectos -- it's the gold cap. Raise it.

gremlin · Dec 10, 2010, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Metal

yes, and you even pointed it out: ectos are rare materials and their price at the trader depends on the economy. Ectos do vary in price, as skills are nerfed, broken, or certain bars get out to the public that are quite condusive to farming ectos.

Ectos should really be taken out of this equation, because the problem isn't ectos -- it's the gold cap. Raise it.

That is why I used the word Compromise

Gold and Platinum are rare materials, not classed as such by the game but still that is what they are.
For that matter the game doesn't really emphasise gold and Platinum coins.

With both sides in this argument deadlocked those with ectos in quantity wanting no change and those wanting the gold cap increased to make trading easier wanting change, we are getting nowhere.

So a compromise that preserves the current system with just one change that of setting the player storage to deal in ectos would seem to be fair.

Farming preserved value of ectos preserved gold cap effectively increased so no time wasted buying and selling ectos.

Its not perfect as a solution but it is perhaps something that reasonable people on both sides could live with.

Black Metal · Dec 10, 2010, 09:27 AM // 09:27

reality check: Anet won't remove ectos from the rare mat trader. That's just how it's going to be.

and....gold and plat ARE rare mats? Between ectos not being rare mats, and gold and silver are, you seem to have things backwards.

And the game doesn't emphasize money? Ever done a mission, quest, zaishen quest, challenge mission, etc etc etc? Gone to a trader, merchant, crafter, etc etc etc?

Are we playing the same game??!!?

fowlero · Dec 10, 2010, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Oh yeah, sitting in an outpost for hours trying to get a good deal from players that are always trying to rip you off. Its about as interesting a dynamic as watching paint dry. I would rather play the game than sit in an outpost and waste my time watching grass grow.

People are still gonna try rip you off with the actual stuff you wanna buy if ecto's weren't in play.

The problem you describe is more a problem with the games (lack of) actual trading system, leading to time wasted finding the right price (for you), than the fact we use ecto etc for 100k+ transactions.

gremlin · Dec 10, 2010, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Metal

reality check: Anet won't remove ectos from the rare mat trader. That's just how it's going to be.

and....gold and plat ARE rare mats? Between ectos not being rare mats, and gold and silver are, you seem to have things backwards.

And the game doesn't emphasize money? Ever done a mission, quest, zaishen quest, challenge mission, etc etc etc? Gone to a trader, merchant, crafter, etc etc etc?

Are we playing the same game??!!?

I think we have a misunderstanding here probably my fault being unclear.

The game makes some things materials some rare materials etc.

In the real world and consequently many ancient civilisations and much of fantasy literature Gold and Platinum are rare materials.
That is why they are valuable.

ok back to the game
The game doesn't make a big deal about gold and platinum being actual coins with a head and a tail side.
You can see tiny images on the wiki which seems to show gold as a disk or sphere and platinum as a bar shape.

It really doesn't matter what they are, except that they are in fact a unit of material that happens to have a value, ectos are also a material that has a value.

We are attempting to discuss here how the current situation can be altered to make things better.
Some say leave it alone others want change and what we really need are lots of ideas untill we come up with one acceptable to the majority.

For me the ideal situation is a third valuable item to go above platinum and the best idea I can come up with is to create a new material.

Second best option is to increase the gold cap but that has us dealing with huge numbers on some sales and it all looks a little silly.

Third option is the one I came up with to keep the ecto holders happy by making a material already in the game part of the currency.

That way those that want the gold cap increased get their way and those that do not want the ecto market ruined get their way.

As I said everybody wins

Don't like my ideas fine you come up with some, be part of the solution not part of the problem.

newbie_of_doom · Dec 10, 2010, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

It's getting to the point where people dont want gold at all anymore, even for items less than 100k. There is something wrong with that picture.

I have never experienced this. And if this is true, I would just tell the sale is off if I didn't have any ectos (they will have to buy ectos anyway). Then again, I always do. Besides, buying ectos can be done very quickly, it only takes about 5 minutes to find a buyer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Although, the fact that we use ectos/whatever to bypass the trading cap makes me wonder. If we bypass the cap by other means all the time, why even have it? Why even have a gold cap at all

If you are going to post, make sure that the questions you asked have not been answered before. Especially if the question is answered multiple times before on the same page: to keep inflation down...

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Some say that the gold cap keeps inflation down. But, I'm not convinced. Goldsinks like merchant items(Lockpicks, ID/Salvage kits), crafting materials, Armor, and 9 rings sink alot of gold as it is. Should be more than enough to keep inflation down, only Anet knows for sure(if they know).

Funny how you first said you do not understand inflation and suddenly became the expert.
Merchant items are a very small part of the gold sink. The ectos probably cover well over half of the total gold sink. Other major players are (guest) invites and Guild Hall NPCs. In fact Merchants bring money into the game, because you sell stuff to them as well.

NerfHerder · Dec 10, 2010, 07:55 PM // 19:55

It's true raising the gold cap will deflate the value of ectos. A simple fix would be to freeze ecto prices at the rare material trader long enough for players to cash in thier ectos, if they wish. Or even create an NPC for just that purpose. That would prevent the huge loss of wealth most players fear. And keep ectos as a rare material for crafting. I have a couple stacks of ectos, I dont want to lose all that wealth either. But, if I have to take a small hit for a better system I'm more than happy to.

Ectos are responsible for half of all gold sunk into GW? Poppycock.

Bright Star Shine · Dec 10, 2010, 08:25 PM // 20:25

What's all this weird stuff about the ecto's? I mean, they have been in this game for the entire time, and they served that entire time as a way to transact money.. Some things just aren't to be payed with in gold... Try buying an unded mini kanaxai in gold... (Ehr, lemme think... That would be how much? 2500a? I actually have no idea at all.. I'm gonna say 2500 for convenience.. If I'm totally wrong, please do point it out..) So, my hypothetical 2500 armbraces will result in ~60.000 ecto's, which is ~420.000.000 gold... Yes, this isn't a standard thing that will be traded, and perhaps the most expensive item in the game.. But it should prove my point.. There are more than enough items in this game being sold for 150-500e.. Trading 1 million gold is just bad..

And what's this bullshit about locking ectocap, so we can sell em? Who's luminous idea was that? What good would that do? Some people have dumploads of ecto sitting in their xunlai chest and they worked their asses off to get it.. Now saying to them "Yeah ehm, I know you had like 50 mill yesterday, I'm sorry, it's only 5 mill now.. Sorry we decimated your savings just because someone thought it was a great idea" .You would blow up the entire economy and screw up this game.. Not that economy is great atm, but it's more stable than it's has been in a while (besides DwG armbrace prices)

Yes, xunlai chest might have a higher cap, perhaps 10 mill would still be ok, but trade windows and personal cap should be left alone.. Forcing people to still use other means.. Although the 1mill cap is still fine to me, never bothered me at all.. Just go kama "WTB 14e = 98k", wait 5minutes and there will be powertrades swarming around you to sell their 14e they bought for 15e=100k...

SpyderArachnid · Dec 10, 2010, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Who cares if ecto/armbraces/etc drop in price? Raise the cap. It just makes sense.

If you lose money cause you invested your money into a crafting material, then too bad. Ecto is no where on par with platinum. Can you buy stuff from an NPC with Ecto or an Armbrace? No. The community made them worth something, not the game.

If Anet raises the gold cap, and it causes ecto prices to drop, we only have ourselves to blame for investing money in a crafting material. It isn't Anet's fault if we lose money cause they raise the cap. And no, platinum and gold is not a material. It is currency. Currency that you can actually use at vendors and such. Unlike Ecto or Armbraces.

So the gold cap needs to be raised. /signed

Black Metal · Dec 10, 2010, 10:02 PM // 22:02

yeah, it makes no sense (other than personal greed) to involve ectos in this discussion at all, as ectos aren't the problem, they are a symptom. The problem is the gold cap is way too low, leading to people contriving all these strange work-arounds; therefore, the solution should be the most direct one: raise the cap. As the OP suggested. That is all this is about and should involve.

Lord Mip · Dec 10, 2010, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

If you lose money cause you invested your money into a crafting material, then too bad. E

Give me a viable alternative to Globs of Ectoplasm to store my 10 million gold in then ..

Bright Star Shine · Dec 11, 2010, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Who cares if ecto/armbraces/etc drop in price? Raise the cap. It just makes sense.

If you lose money cause you invested your money into a crafting material, then too bad. Ecto is no where on par with platinum. Can you buy stuff from an NPC with Ecto or an Armbrace? No. The community made them worth something, not the game.

If Anet raises the gold cap, and it causes ecto prices to drop, we only have ourselves to blame for investing money in a crafting material. It isn't Anet's fault if we lose money cause they raise the cap. And no, platinum and gold is not a material. It is currency. Currency that you can actually use at vendors and such. Unlike Ecto or Armbraces.

So the gold cap needs to be raised. /signed

Torment Weapons, Obby Armor and Chaos gloves say
HEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

You know why they are involved, because it makes SENSE! The goldcap is so low in order that instead of gold, players would come with solutions to trade valuable thing.. Rare weapons sometimes, Minipets etc and mainly Ecto and or Armbraces, because that's how economy works...

gremlin · Dec 11, 2010, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

What's all this weird stuff about the ecto's? I mean, they have been in this game for the entire time, and they served that entire time as a way to transact money.. Some things just aren't to be payed with in gold... Try buying an unded mini kanaxai in gold... (Ehr, lemme think... That would be how much? 2500a? I actually have no idea at all.. I'm gonna say 2500 for convenience.. If I'm totally wrong, please do point it out..) So, my hypothetical 2500 armbraces will result in ~60.000 ecto's, which is ~420.000.000 gold... Yes, this isn't a standard thing that will be traded, and perhaps the most expensive item in the game.. But it should prove my point.. There are more than enough items in this game being sold for 150-500e.. Trading 1 million gold is just bad..

And what's this bullshit about locking ectocap, so we can sell em? Who's luminous idea was that? What good would that do? Some people have dumploads of ecto sitting in their xunlai chest and they worked their asses off to get it.. Now saying to them "Yeah ehm, I know you had like 50 mill yesterday, I'm sorry, it's only 5 mill now.. Sorry we decimated your savings just because someone thought it was a great idea" .You would blow up the entire economy and screw up this game.. Not that economy is great atm, but it's more stable than it's has been in a while (besides DwG armbrace prices)

Yes, xunlai chest might have a higher cap, perhaps 10 mill would still be ok, but trade windows and personal cap should be left alone.. Forcing people to still use other means.. Although the 1mill cap is still fine to me, never bothered me at all.. Just go kama "WTB 14e = 98k", wait 5minutes and there will be powertrades swarming around you to sell their 14e they bought for 15e=100k...

I agree with bright star shine that simply raising the cap would be silly as he says who wants to start trading with 7 or 8 figure numbers.
But there are alternatives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Torment Weapons, Obby Armor and Chaos gloves say
HEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

You know why they are involved, because it makes SENSE! The goldcap is so low in order that instead of gold, players would come with solutions to trade valuable thing.. Rare weapons sometimes, Minipets etc and mainly Ecto and or Armbraces, because that's how economy works...

The goldcap is so low because anet never figured that the players would ever need anything higher.
For some reason they never considered introducing a minipet in one part of the world only would ever lead to player considering them a lost masterpiece worth millions.
The trade in ectos ambracers etc just proves you cannot stop players playing the game the way they want to, so again I agree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mip

Give me a viable alternative to Globs of Ectoplasm to store my 10 million gold in then ..

I have given you alternatives in this thread no once but several times.

Anet could and should create a larger unit of currency above platinum to replace ectos, . with the alternative suggestion that they could allow free exchange of ectos within the xunlai chest at a fixed price.

If you have 200 ectos today worth 8,000k apiece you would after the change still have 200 ectos worth 8000k apiece and they would work in exactly the same way gold and platinum works now.

They could stay in the rare materials trader but again at a fixed price.
Not as good as creating a third unit of currency from scratch but still a reasonable system to work with.

If we went with the ectos as currency what would be the result.
1 ectos would hold their value.
2 players could and would still farm ectos since they would be well worth it.
3 player could trade for items using ectos as they do now with no danger of the value diminishing.
4 everyone could just put their ectos into storage without trying to sell to players.

there are 2 downsides to using ectos as a currency.
Firstly you have a rare material that takes up storage space rather than a pure unit of currency that takes no space at all.

Secondly there would be no way to buy and sell ectos to power trade

Bright Star Shine · Dec 11, 2010, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Thanks for agreeing with me, but I HAVE to disagree with you..
If Anet didn't consider that 1mill/person would be high enough and noone would need more, they would've been a bunch of monkeys throwing feces at retards, who would read the feces to come up with ideas on how to make a game..
Of course they considered it, why do you think Rare Materials are in the game? They are there for that exact reason..
And sorry gremlin, but capping Ecto's at their current rate is the dumbest idea of em all in this entire article.. It has no use, it makes no sense and it's just plain stupid.. It would destroy this entire economy (which is as it was intended) and just because some guy was too lazy to stand in kama or ToA to buy some ecto's...
And to all those people who are ranting about it, but are admitting that the goldcap is perfect for them because they will never reach it anyway, then why are you ranting in the first place? Say something useful instead please..
And can all of you PLEASE just think about this for one minute out of a rational perspective and come to the conclusion that as it is, it's perfect.. And messing with ecto has NO USE, because they are ment to be what they are now.. And don't give me the crap of "paying with a rare mat is stupid, because you need to may with money" What is money IRL do you think? It is a coin or piece of paper that represents a certain amount of GOLD (A RARE MATERIAL) that is stored somewhere in a big vault.. So, basing an economy on rare materials is stupid all of a sudden? What do you think your life is based on..

SpyderArachnid · Dec 11, 2010, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mip

Give me a viable alternative to Globs of Ectoplasm to store my 10 million gold in then ..

How about ask yourself why you need to have 10 million gold?

I don't know. Go buy something? Work on a title? Get stuff for your alts? Help out a friend/guild mate? Help out a random person?

There is several alternatives to what you can do with that money. I'm sure if you are sitting on 10 million gold, then you obviously have no use for it or else you would of spent of something that you wanted instead of storing 10 million gold.

And if you have 10 million gold in ecto/armbraces, then this is the reason why we say the gold cap needs to be raised. Cause then you won't have to carry about tons of ecto/armbraces just to have a place for your money.

So instead of complaining that you have no where to store your 10 million gold, then suggest something or do something about it. Raising the gold cap would take care of that problem for you, so I don't understand what the big deal is. If the gold cap is raised, then you can store your gold.

Anet didn't force you to spend your gold on ecto. You chose to do so. There is a million of things that you could invest your money into, but you as a player chose ecto. And if ecto prices drop because the gold cap is raised, we have only ourselves to blame for that, not Anet. They don't decide that ecto is a form of currency, we made it currency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

And don't give me the crap of "paying with a rare mat is stupid, because you need to may with money" What is money IRL do you think? It is a coin or piece of paper that represents a certain amount of GOLD (A RARE MATERIAL) that is stored somewhere in a big vault.. So, basing an economy on rare materials is stupid all of a sudden? What do you think your life is based on..

Comparing real life money to a video game is stupid. I'm pretty sure you can't grab a glob of sludge and walk into a store and say "HEY! I invested my money into these globs of sludge, so you should take them as currency now!". Yeah.... cause that works in the real world. In the real world, it is money or nothing. You can't exchange random things in a supermarket when you buy groceries. They need cash. Not some square of silk.

newbie_of_doom · Dec 11, 2010, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Really? Do I have to repeat myself again?
It is not the main issue that raising the gold cap is going to deflate ectos and bankrupt a lot of players. The main issue is that the gold cap is a good way to prevent inflation.
Start discussing this, rather than ignoring it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

I don't know what your trying to buy, but I have no problem spending my gold. Lockpicks are easy to find, as are kegs of ale, Zkeys, etc. I also spend money on prizes for games that I play with my guildies... so yea, I dont see how you could have trouble buying stuff (unless you have already finished everything left to do in the game... in which case, why are you still playing?)

The argument that anet has better things to do is perfectly valid. I would far rather them work on skill updates or the hero updates than on something useless like this. Its that simple, and yes, that is a perfectly valid argument.

I'm trying to buy decent weapons, weapon mods and that kind of stuff without spending too much time getting. I mainly play PvP and fore some reason got insanely rich of it because zaishen keys are tradable. That's how I have trouble buying stuff. I , however, have not ever had any trouble buying ectos.

And, no it is not a valid argument for wether this a good idea or not. While this kind of pragmatic analysis is certainly a valid argument in deciding wether to progress an idea that is considered good, it is not valid in our current, theoritical discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

The goldcap is so low because anet never figured that the players would ever need anything higher.
For some reason they never considered introducing a minipet in one part of the world only would ever lead to player considering them a lost masterpiece worth millions.
The trade in ectos ambracers etc just proves you cannot stop players playing the game the way they want to, so again I agree with you.

False, I think they actually did consider that players would need more money than did. Even if they didn't, it doesn't change that ectos are a great way of preventing inflation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

I have given you alternatives in this thread no once but several times.

Not very good ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

If you have 200 ectos today worth 8,000k apiece you would after the change still have 200 ectos worth 8000k apiece and they would work in exactly the same way gold and platinum works now.

They could stay in the rare materials trader but again at a fixed price.
Not as good as creating a third unit of currency from scratch but still a reasonable system to work with.

If we went with the ectos as currency what would be the result.
1 ectos would hold their value.
2 players could and would still farm ectos since they would be well worth it.
3 player could trade for items using ectos as they do now with no danger of the value diminishing.
4 everyone could just put their ectos into storage without trying to sell to players.

I detect mass-inflation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Secondly there would be no way to buy and sell ectos to power trade

So? Just powertrade zaishen keys or whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

How about ask yourself why you need to have 10 million gold?

I like being a rich boy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Anet didn't force you to spend your gold on ecto. You chose to do so. There is a million of things that you could invest your money into, but you as a player chose ecto. And if ecto prices drop because the gold cap is raised, we have only ourselves to blame for that, not Anet. They don't decide that ecto is a form of currency, we made it currency.

Anet didn't force you to hang onto gold either. Your argument isn't very solid. While it may seem as though gold is a natural valuta, ectos and ambraces or whatever have become so as well.

On a way off-topic side note: Bright Star Shine, I did misread your post earlier, in the staff slaying mod thread.^^