Curse

lorazcyk · Nov 16, 2011, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

What more explanation do you need? You are asking for a paid advantage over players who do not pay.

How about /bonus weapons, the Fire Imp summon, Mercenaries, and the whole deal? You could even argue that Costumes are an advantage, because you now have a pretty outfit for your character, without farming materials.
Do you agree? Would you like these things to be removed from the game?

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Titles all calculate into the HoM account-wide so the "I'll never get it all before GW2" argument is dead.

That's right, but you can't work in one title in more than one character at once. You must work on that title, with only one character. (single-character titles)

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The titles that are exclusive to your character play a distinctive roll in certain skills linked to them. Those same titles have a baring on the story line as well... Your characters equipment, skills, skill points, appearance are already tied to that profession. Asking for a complete change not only takes away from the storyline, but also defeats the point of multiple slots.

As I said before, what about the fact that you can get rank 8 in Hero's Ascent as an Elementalist, then switch to a Monk, yet still display the title? Playing monk in HA is drastically different than playing an Elementalist. Is it unfair that a monk with no HA experience could get into a high ranked group?

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Most everyone making the argument for this are stating that they don't want to spend the time doing all of this on multiple characters...

Ofcourse we don't.
Our titles could be half-way, or almost maxed. If we switch, it's not likely we will finish either one.
If I do Guardian/Protector in different campaigns on different characters, I won't have Legendary Guardian title.
If I do EotN titles on separate characters, I won't have Master of the North.

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I can already see the groups of elitists asking people who don't have say, a Rit with maxed title in DoA to reroll a class they did have the title on so as to make the run convenient.

People already do this.

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Titles like LDoA which have already been made scores easier will now be a joke, as the number of Rits, Paras, Dervs, and Sins with it will be stupid...

Don't be silly, those professions are not possible in pre-searing. Skills for these professions aren't even available there. No armors either. Be realistic.
A easy way to prevent this is to make sure your character is level twenty, AND ascended.

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Lets not even begin to think of major skill changes effecting this...

What skill changes are you talking about? Why would this bring about major skill changes? If you don't explain yourself, it's no wonder people think of your arguments as foolish.

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Pretty damned sure any dev reading this wouldn't think twice about it. Guess I'm bowing out on this topic as its never going to happen.

That's for the devs to decide, not you, unless you become employed by them.

Lithril Ashwalker · Nov 16, 2011, 05:00 AM // 05:00

dont stray off topic all of you, i can see it not being difficult to change a rangers obsidian armor into an elementalist obsidian armor and his main profession to an ele to match, but u cant make a rangers distracting shot into a elementalist skill thats a duplicate, there isnt one. thats one way they will fail, which still leaves u all of the skills to get in order to be able to use ur newly changed profession.

Plutoman · Nov 16, 2011, 05:55 AM // 05:55

There's no paid advantage? o.O I don't know where you've gotten that from. They don't gain any titles, any advantages, all they gain is a new profession to stave off boredom. It doesn't negate the need for multiple slots. People who play multiple professions regularly will need multiple slots. People who PvP will need multiple slots. People who like to roleplay need multiple slots.

The storyline barely touches into profession, only in the tutorial. A rit, para, derv, or sin with LDoA doesn't make a difference - to get that title, they still had to earn it on a regular character inside pre-searing - because I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it'd only be for level 20 characters, just like you can only make a merc out of a level 20 character. Do you really believe people would just 'ask' people to whip out $20 to make a run easier? Someone can make that choice - there's no one that's going to ask someone to do that. You're entirely exaggerating the situation. Why, oh why, would skills change because of this? :/

Edit: Sniped. Glad I'm not the only one who was confused on what the heck he was saying. Particularly skill changes? o.o

The Drunkard · Nov 16, 2011, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

I can already see the groups of elitists asking people who don't have say, a Rit with maxed title in DoA to reroll a class they did have the title on so as to make the run convenient.

Elitism with titles in pve only occurs with rank-specific scenarios (IE: lightbringer/ EoTN) I've never been descriminated for having survivor or skill hunter in something like an SC...and I've been on quite a few SCs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

Titles like LDoA which have already been made scores easier will now be a joke, as the number of Rits, Paras, Dervs, and Sins with it will be stupid

I fail to see how LDoA will be easier to achieve if people are able to change their prof. Last time I checked, you cannot change your prof to rit/sin/para/derv in proph. And, fyi, LDoA is not as easy now as you think it is; it requires a lot less time with the update to pre, but without farming it takes at least 80 daily quest completions to get enough exp for the title.

I'm sure there could be a restriction (ascended) in order for this to take place, or even restrict the prof. change to whatever campaign the original char was started in, so you won't see a sin with LDoA.

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Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

... Lets not even begin to think of major skill changes effecting this...

Agreed, we would have to completly rebalance every primary prof. to reflect the changes that this update would provide. Wait a second.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

I'm not even sure why i bother to argue with people who refuse to see that their lazy nature won't change a thing. Pretty damned sure any dev reading this wouldn't think twice about it. Guess I'm bowing out on this topic as its never going to happen. That and arguing with a fool is making me feel a fool myself

They wouldn't think twice about it, eh? Kinda like they didn't think about the other micro-transactions that are currently in the store (and were proposed on guru, I might add). You are right about making a fool of yourself though.

/signed

synbios_kun · Nov 16, 2011, 07:57 AM // 07:57

/notsigned

Not interested in being able to change primaries when, for the better part of my life in GW, I've been told to consider my choice of primary profession because it will play a heavy role in my playstyle.

BettaDenU · Nov 16, 2011, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Skills don't change, the only thing that changes is your primary profession attribute (wether or not it's a full makeover I'll leave that to the devs).

This is not a change for the lazy people it's a change for the bored people. Lore wise it has already happened to NPC's, also people that would switch on and off and changing their primary profession everyday would still have to pay 20 bucks for that. It's not a free service and I explicitly noted in the title that it would be a paid service so you would have to dish out money for this.

Also how the hell can you ever think that this will give an advantage for someone over someone else who didn't pay for the service?

Example:

Prophecies born Primary Ranger - Level 20 - Ascended - GWAMM.

Factions born Primary Ritualist - Level 20 - Weh No Su - GWAMM - changes to ->>> Primary Ranger. Where's the advantage?

He's still level 20 not 30 or something, he's still ascended or weh no su if you will and he still has his GWAMM. What changed here in the plateau of power? Exactly nothing.

@ cormac ap dunn , I think you've taken it out of context or misread something, this idea is not advantagous to anyone except to those who are bored because they can change their boring dull i've spent 3.000 hours on this profession to i've spent 3.000 hours on this character and I can still enjoy it.

If you are afraid that sins will run around with LDoA they still had to pay 20 bucks to do it, if I made my Elementalist in prophecies his hair and face looks from that continent but if I pay for the makeover pack which I did I will have a Canthan looking Elementalist with LDoA how does that work in your opinion? Would you scream in my face that it's blasphemy or something?

It's a paid service, you don't HAVE to buy it but you can if you'd LIKE.

Gill Halendt · Nov 16, 2011, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjal Lee

this idea is not advantagous to anyone except to those who are bored because they can change their boring dull i've spent 3.000 hours on this profession to i've spent 3.000 hours on this character and I can still enjoy it.

Would that still be "this character" if you change its profession, its appearence... and, by the end of the day, only retain accomplishments and titles? Would you still enjoy a completely different character... with 3000 hours-worth of accomplishments? Just asking, but it's hard not to make this a discussion about titles, when "I've spent 3000 hours on a character and now I'm bored" is the best argument in favour of this change...

I can't help but feel there's some form of compulsion behind all this. 3000 hours of play, and you couldn't realize you wanted something else before? Unless you only care about accomplishments, what difference will it make to simply start anew instead? I really doubt that you've much left to do with a character with that many hours of play, so, what will you do with a new primary?

cormac ap dunn · Nov 16, 2011, 03:04 PM // 15:04

@The Drunkard
What can I say, I had this great big post written for you, and in the end I have decided your probably not worth explaining things to.

@lorazcyk
Same thing applies. for every explanation you seem to just ask rounded out summary questions. I find it rather impossible to answer you when everything you say seems to have a "?" at the end of it.

All in all this thread is still best solved by account wide titles, of which only 3 should even be considered, sweet tooth, drunkard, and party animal. The rest are too attached to skills and story specific content.

JONO51 · Nov 16, 2011, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

Major advantage being TIME. You think maybe getting rid of all primary professions sounds like a good idea? I mean after all, if you put the time in, you should be allowed to have your character be anything you like, whenever you like... Whats the point of having classes if they are just something easily thrown away?

Yeah buddy, everyone is gonna be dropping $20 every few hours to swap roles for SC. Lol.....

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The point is balance in game play. you pay, you get the advantage of taking something that, lets face it, is easier done on other classes (SoS rit can face roll anything in most situations, If i run a monk in PvP I'll be hard pressed to NOT get my title faster...) and making it a set accomplishment on a class that might otherwise find it harder (Paras might as well just hang it up aside from Imba according to most other players).

I even said that any class can run SoS and get this shit, therefore they're all already equal in getting these titles.........

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My point exactly... There is NO reason you can't title on any character you make. Kinda makes the "grind" argument a bit invalid.

Ease=/=time. This game is skill>time. Don't wanna waste time grinding 1mil balth/gold for skills? Buy the skill packs in the store. Don't wanna grind all these ranks? Convert existing char to another class. Wanna go back? Pony up another twenty. You choose to grind all of them on 2 chars? Well then, you have two separate characters to flip between whenever. If you buy a class change you only have 1 character still...

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Thats rather what you are asking, that all the equipment, titles, and effort put into one class be transformed into a totally different class. You have more then one slot available... Why do you think that is? So you can just reroll at will on one character because you achieved something on it? Just ask directly for what you really want here, Account-wide titles... Dancing around the topic is just silly, and this is a far cry from an effective solution.

The only relevant scale in PvE titles is time. Not difficulty. Not effort. Not profession specific difference (we both agree any class can roll SoS and get these). People would rather spend $20 and convert class than spend 100+hrs on ranks and end up with a second character available. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, you can't seem to comprehend the difference between having one character and having 2 characters with the titles available to play and due to this seem to think all of a sudden there's an advantage given or people buying account wide everything. If you could understand this, maybe you'd realise that actually there is no advantage and you've just rambled on about nothing.

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Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

What more explanation do you need? You are asking for a paid advantage over players who do not pay. Whats the point? Titles all calculate into the HoM account-wide so the "I'll never get it all before GW2" argument is dead. The titles that are exclusive to your character play a distinctive roll in certain skills linked to them. Those same titles have a baring on the story line as well...

The fact that all titles count shows there is no reason for alts anyway tbh, except to swap primaries for free. Bringing the gw story into this is stupid too. Its already completely fcked (heres a hint time travel is possible) and besides, they've already had class changes...

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Your characters equipment, skills, skill points, appearance are already tied to that profession. Asking for a complete change not only takes away from the storyline, but also defeats the point of multiple slots.

Keiran Thackeray. Alts have been sidelined since introduction of HoM. Nowadays multiple slots are pretty much only there for those who wanna grind or have a few pvp alts/farming chars.

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Most everyone making the argument for this are stating that they don't want to spend the time doing all of this on multiple characters... they then state that PvE is easy... they state that things are too grindy... You do realize we all asked for that grind right? that if it were easy we would bitch that there was no content... That if it took less effort we would look at these things as a standard , not an achievement.

All I see is time spent..... People appreciate content, but they don't like it when for their class to be at max efficiency you've gotta invest 100hrs in maxing all these pve titles.

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I can already see the groups of elitists asking people who don't have say, a Rit with maxed title in DoA to reroll a class they did have the title on so as to make the run convenient.

Guess you haven't even been playing the game then. Class discrimination has always occurred. Wanna join a UWSC? Roll a sin or something. That's something you can go out and be told today. It will carry on regardless.

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Titles like LDoA which have already been made scores easier will now be a joke, as the number of Rits, Paras, Dervs, and Sins with it will be stupid...

Eh? All it means is now they aren't disadvantaged compared to the 6 core profs in terms of going for GWAMM.

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Lets not even begin to think of major skill changes effecting this...

Yeah, you clearly either haven't even read the suggestion or have no idea how the game works. Probably both.....

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I'm not even sure why i bother to argue with people who refuse to see that their lazy nature won't change a thing. Pretty damned sure any dev reading this wouldn't think twice about it. Guess I'm bowing out on this topic as its never going to happen. That and arguing with a fool is making me feel a fool myself

You were the fool all along.

EPO Bot · Nov 16, 2011, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Play one of your secondaries more. Those are free.

mrseasonalt · Nov 16, 2011, 10:02 PM // 22:02

The advantages to changing primary professions over another person would be very minimal but that doesnt change the fact that it takes almost no time at all to push a character wherever you want it. Not only that but the people that would buy this are idiots because if they turn their warrior into a monk they are still going to now not have a monk and want a monk. What will you have to do? Create a new character or spend another 15$ to be back at square one. Anet gave you eight character slots for a reason. I mean really this game has been out for 6 1/2 years and you seriosuly dont have other characters you can play? I have never met anyone who only had one character on their account and who really wanted a different profession but figured it would take too much time to create a new character.

There's a reason no other game has this feature. Because it's not only ridiculous, but its pointless.

Kaleban · Nov 16, 2011, 10:14 PM // 22:14

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Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

What more explanation do you need? You are asking for a paid advantage over players who do not pay.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mercenary_Hero

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Whats the point? Titles all calculate into the HoM account-wide so the "I'll never get it all before GW2" argument is dead. The titles that are exclusive to your character play a distinctive roll in certain skills linked to them.

Drunkard
Sweet Tooth
Party Animal
Skill Hunter
Master of the North
Cartographer
Vanquisher

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Those same titles have a baring on the story line as well... Your characters equipment, skills, skill points, appearance are already tied to that profession. Asking for a complete change not only takes away from the storyline, but also defeats the point of multiple slots.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Razah#Profession_change

Yet we still use more heroes than just him, as an example.

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Most everyone making the argument for this are stating that they don't want to spend the time doing all of this on multiple characters... they then state that PvE is easy... they state that things are too grindy... You do realize we all asked for that grind right? that if it were easy we would bitch that there was no content... That if it took less effort we would look at these things as a standard , not an achievement.

No one asked for the grind, the playerbase didn't program the game nor were they overly involved in the design phase. Content =/= grind. Its pretty obvious to most. Also, if a player has GWAMM on a character, pays to change, that player has gained nothing materially. Still only the one GWAMM. Perhaps having a Warrior instead of a Necromancer will reinvigorate the game for the person, RATHER than slogging through all the earlier parts of the game, finding the same elites, buying the same skills that has been done before. The player has gained a whole new play experience, without the tedium of the early game.

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I can already see the groups of elitists asking people who don't have say, a Rit with maxed title in DoA to reroll a class they did have the title on so as to make the run convenient.

I hardly can believe the logic here. Asking people to pay microtransactions for one single run in the game is beyond ridiculous. Perhaps in a few hardcore SC guilds, but not the general playerbase.

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Titles like LDoA which have already been made scores easier will now be a joke, as the number of Rits, Paras, Dervs, and Sins with it will be stupid... Lets not even begin to think of major skill changes effecting this... I'm not even sure why i bother to argue with people who refuse to see that their lazy nature won't change a thing. Pretty damned sure any dev reading this wouldn't think twice about it. Guess I'm bowing out on this topic as its never going to happen. That and arguing with a fool is making me feel a fool myself

Nothing like a lazily veiled insult to make your case. Major skill changes like the Mesmer update or Dervish update MIGHT cause a larger than average influx of profession changes, but as you pointed out earlier, what is the point of having multiple slots? Likely many players have multiple characters, this type of option would allow those players who want a change but can't invest the time and effort into re-rolling a whole new class or prefer to stick with one main BECAUSE of title grinding to be able to take advantage of new and interesting playstyles.

There are these things in real life, called obligations, that include school, work, family, etc. An intelligent company caters to the biggest demographic it can, which does not include whiny emo high schoolers. One of the largest PC gaming demographics is the 25-35 range, who in general do not possess the time necessary to do as you ask.

So I ask you, what is in ANet's best interest, cater to the elitists and nay-sayers, especially in the face of the sequel coming out and trying to drum up interest and longevity? Or try to include the much larger demographic of part-time gamers? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

**cosyfiep** · Nov 17, 2011, 01:12 AM // 01:12

sounds like you are just BORED with guildwars....
best advice: find another game to play

/not signed. leveling up characters is not that difficult, part of PLAYING the game is learning new characters, so just start a new character--your old 'main gwamm' will still be there for your epeen.

Jeydra · Nov 17, 2011, 01:29 AM // 01:29

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Originally Posted by cosyfiep

leveling up characters is not that difficult, part of PLAYING the game is learning new characters, so just start a new character--your old 'main gwamm' will still be there for your epeen.

No, but getting the skills + mapping the outposts + maxing your PvE titles + getting all your heroes + getting all your equipment is not easy.

There is no harm done with this change.

/signed.

Canthas Monk · Nov 17, 2011, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

No, but getting the skills + mapping the outposts + maxing your PvE titles + getting all your heroes + getting all your equipment is not easy.

There is no harm done with this change.

/signed.

It is easy.

Yes there is harm in it.

Play the game and stop being lazy.

Kaleban · Nov 17, 2011, 02:50 AM // 02:50

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Originally Posted by Canthas Monk

It is easy.

Yes there is harm in it.

Play the game and stop being lazy.

Time to bust out teh logicz.

A player gets GWAMM on a character, say an Elementalist.

Decides he wants to try a Warrior, but doesn't want to start at level 1 in Pre-Searing with Sever Artery and Gash.

Pays for a profession change.

Loses his elementalist, and money, but now has a warrior with the skills, armor, and weapons he had acquired as an Elementalist.

Exactly HOW does this player's actions HARM the game, much less any other player, in even the slightest fashion?

The player's reasons for the change could be anything or nothing, the bottom line is, there is no net effect on the game or gameworld, no effect on other players' experiences, nada, zilch, zero.

As for the lazy comment, get some perspective, even playing hard to beat all campaigns its going to take a multitude of hours, much more than your average console game or even most standalone RPGs such as the Elder Scrolls to even beat all three campaigns plus EoTN. Thats a huge time commitment, and in this day and age where casual gamers easily outnumber the hardcore, catering to the casual ESPECIALLY when it has zero effect on the hardcore is a win/win scenario.

Canthas Monk · Nov 17, 2011, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Time to bust out teh logicz.

A player gets GWAMM on a character, say an Elementalist.

Decides he wants to try a Warrior, but doesn't want to start at level 1 in Pre-Searing with Sever Artery and Gash.

Pays for a profession change.

Loses his elementalist, and money, but now has a warrior with the skills, armor, and weapons he had acquired as an Elementalist.

Exactly HOW does this player's actions HARM the game, much less any other player, in even the slightest fashion?

The player's reasons for the change could be anything or nothing, the bottom line is, there is no net effect on the game or gameworld, no effect on other players' experiences, nada, zilch, zero.

As for the lazy comment, get some perspective, even playing hard to beat all campaigns its going to take a multitude of hours, much more than your average console game or even most standalone RPGs such as the Elder Scrolls to even beat all three campaigns plus EoTN. Thats a huge time commitment, and in this day and age where casual gamers easily outnumber the hardcore, catering to the casual ESPECIALLY when it has zero effect on the hardcore is a win/win scenario.

If a player doesn't want to create a new character, then DON'T CREATE IT. You're saying that because they are too lazy to create a new character they should be able to BUY what others have already worked for with real money. You're so smart. So much for busting out the logic.

And you ask HOW it is harmful? Lol the day a PERMA SIN can pay to switch to being e.g. a mesmer or a monk with real money is the day I would uninstall.

Thus this will never happen and only terribad players are going to want it to. /forever not signed.

Oh and Elder Scrolls isn't Guild Wars.

Kaleban · Nov 17, 2011, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canthas Monk

If a player doesn't want to create a new character, then DON'T CREATE IT. You're saying that because they are too lazy to create a new character they should be able to BUY what others have already worked for with real money. You're so smart. So much for busting out the logic.

And you ask HOW it is harmful? Lol the day a PERMA SIN can pay to switch to being e.g. a mesmer or a monk with real money is the day I would uninstall.

Thus this will never happen and only terribad players are going to want it to. /forever not signed.

Oh and Elder Scrolls isn't Guild Wars.

First incorrect assumption: desire to change a character without starting anew somehow equates to being lazy.

Second incorrect assumption: that ANet does not sell in-game advantages for real world cash.

Third incorrect assumption: that a perma sin changing to a new primary is somehow bad for the game.

To the first; some people don't want to re-play the same content for the 200 hours+ it would take to get their new character to the point of their current character. This isn't being lazy, this is simply a cost benefit analysis that people do everyday. Its why you don't walk 20 miles to work when you could take the bus or drive. Not lazy, just smart.

To the second; ANet allows Mercenaries which is a real world expenditure changing how the game works for those who can pay. You could make the same argument for/against a Character Name Change, extra storage, and even pet and skill unlocks that don't require you to play through content first.

To the third; exactly how does someone changing their primary from Assassin to Mesmer impact YOUR gaming experience? This I really want to know, because for the life of me I cannot think of one negative effect.

If you're going to try to counter reason and logic, best to employ it yourself first. Making silly claims and character judgments such as equating "terribad" with anyone who disagrees with you is quite self-defeating.

Jeydra · Nov 17, 2011, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canthas Monk

It is easy.

Yes there is harm in it.

Play the game and stop being lazy.

Ok. I'll give you my account info, and you make me a fully runed, equipped, maxed hero teams, outposts mapped, maxed PvE titles etc Warrior (or Assassin or Dervish, if you prefer those professions). I don't care about GWAMM, but I expect to be able to map anywhere I may want to map to and have access to every elite skill in that primary profession, along with the equipment to use them if I so choose.

How long will it take you to do it?

Don't pretend this is easy. Creating such a character will take many hours of playtime, many of which is extremely tedious simply because I've done all that content many times before on different characters.

Fu8ar · Nov 17, 2011, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Honestly, I don't care if someone wants to pay out of pocket to change their profession. It doesn't affect me in the slightest, unless somehow I get charged for their class change....

As to the time it takes to gain heroes and what not, it only took me about 12 hours over a weeks time to pick up 9 heroes on my newest character and giving myself access to all three campaigns plus EoTN. So gaining heroes for new characters and access to all the areas doesn't take much time, unless you're grinding every area you come to before moving on (by the way, I'm not in a guild and didn't ask for help from f list.) If you want skills for your new character/class, guess what, there are tomes for those skills you unlocked already.

I'm working on gwamm on one of my characters and taking my time. I've been half arsed working on it since the HoM crud while picking up the Z missions, bounties, and vanquish.

Either way, as Kaleban said, someone changing their character class w/o re-rolling their character will not affect anyone but the person who paid for the class change.

This whole argument is as someone already put it, "Asinine".