Curse

halfies · Aug 07, 2011, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Before posting derogatory responses to this, please take a moment and actually have a look at the MCE explorable on HM with scavenger spawns. And try to vanquish it with a party of 2 human rangers, one of whom isn't exactly an 'elite' player, no cons, and any 2 heroes you like.

this is your problem. if your going to run with a gimped team, then expect to pop cons and summons. if im taking another player on a vq i make him fill one of my hero slots. also, why are people surprised at the area getting harder? its just like WiK, if you are going for vqer why did you decide to take a quest chain that RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs up spawns all across the continent?

Attiq · Aug 07, 2011, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Ok I'm back....

I've just taken 2 hours and 44 mins to complete the Vanq with the WoC spawns... (Insane how long it takes)

I couldn't go with my vanq partner as I wanted.... Cause everytime the Scav's would just slaughter us..... however with this build http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_3_Hero_Spiritway I made it through the Vanq...... I used Consets and Clovers (LOTS OF CLOVERS) so if you plan on doing it you must do it alone (rediculous).

I'm with Jeydra now this isn't hard (if you only use the specific set which sucks cause I like going with my game partner) it is incredibly long for a starter area.

If your going to use the above build then make sure to make yourself as a tank to take the agro.....

Have fun..... I DIDN'T!!!!!!!!!!

Gli · Aug 07, 2011, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Unless you offer to pay me 100 ectos, I'd rather be full of crap than go through the VQ again with 2 Ranger heroes. I don't doubt it can be done; I'm just hard-pressed to find the motivation to do it. Incidentally, let me remind you that this was brought up because someone complained that he can't do this with his buddy when both of them were Rangers (i.e. two player Rangers).

As for having to use optimized builds, I wonder how much of the game can really be done with random professions. Can Ascalon be vanquished with 2 Warriors 1 Dervish 1 Assassin? Can Varesh be killed with 1 Derv 1 Sin 3 Rangers 2 Paragons + Morgahn? And while we're raging against having to use optimized builds, why stop there - if we accept "areas need to be doable with random professions" as a criterion for difficulty, why shouldn't it be random skills or random attributes?

You're 'slippery sloping' away from my main complaint.

My complaint was never that it couldn't be done with any combination of classes, my complaint was that it (quoting my original post here): "wipes away the ability for people to play together if their professions don't form the basis of a decent party setup to deal with such enemies." and "each of us will have to do it alone with a completely optimized set of 3 heroes."

This area changes a multiplayer game into a single player game. It's pretty much a given that there's content you need to optimize for, both builds and party composition, but there has never been any content that you can't do in a reasonable manner with a few real players with any professions but decent builds, if you round out the rest of your party to complement them.

This area is a huge drag even if you play fully optimized, which means just one player (unless your buddy happens to be playing a profession that fits) and perfectly tunes heroes. Doing it in a suboptimal manner, which many 2 player based parties will be, is worse. 'Buddy play' went out of the window with this update.

In short, it's not about being able to do this with any combination of players and builds, it's about being able to do it at all, in a reasonable manner, with more than one player.

Gli · Aug 07, 2011, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfies

if im taking another player on a vq i make him fill one of my hero slots.

I don't take other players on vqs, I play together with friends, and I don't "make" my friends do anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfies

also, why are people surprised at the area getting harder? its just like WiK, if you are going for vqer why did you decide to take a quest chain that RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs up spawns all across the continent?

I'm not surprised at it getting harder. I'm surprised at it getting insanely messed up. The groups in this are are larger and more vicious than the WiK spawns in, for example, the Black Curtain area, which allows a party of 8.

WiK didn't make vanquishing unreasonable, it made it a bit more interesting. So I'd say this is nothing like WiK.

Jeydra · Aug 07, 2011, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Can you name a 2-man combination of professions that cannot do the VQ?

Btw congrats Attiq

Attiq · Aug 07, 2011, 12:27 PM // 12:27

If you mean me......

Weirdly enough a Derv (thats me) and a Monk..... and I am serious we get slaughtered everytime.... used the Rits and everything and dead on the second group everytime....

Soon as I tried solo as a test killed 5 sets without a pause or death.... soon as Monk came in its like the damage got up'ed and we died..... and then I'll try again with the 3 heroes and fly through the groups again..... Monk comes in Damage goes up we all die....

And before you say it might be the Monk its not cause the player is a good player....

Man W/ Club · Aug 07, 2011, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Unless you offer to pay me 100 ectos, I'd rather be full of crap than go through the VQ again with 2 Ranger heroes. I don't doubt it can be done; I'm just hard-pressed to find the motivation to do it. Incidentally, let me remind you that this was brought up because someone complained that he can't do this with his buddy when both of them were Rangers (i.e. two player Rangers).

As for having to use optimized builds, I wonder how much of the game can really be done with random professions. Can Ascalon be vanquished with 2 Warriors 1 Dervish 1 Assassin? Can Varesh be killed with 1 Derv 1 Sin 3 Rangers 2 Paragons + Morgahn? And while we're raging against having to use optimized builds, why stop there - if we accept "areas need to be doable with random professions" as a criterion for difficulty, why shouldn't it be random skills or random attributes?

This vanquish is hard, but it is also doable before consumable / summoning stone / DP removal support, and there is more leeway with builds than some seem to think. Therefore I'll hold to my viewpoint: it's too long, but not too hard.

I will agree with you here, it is too goddamn long, and as a PvPer I really hate dicking around killing AI when I could be killing players.

It's not that it's not doable. You can pull every mob and make them ball up on every corner or cliff or wahtever with tank n spank tactics, that doesn't make it anymore fun.

OChunx · Aug 07, 2011, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Someone from the Anet live team said about a month ago that they're aware of the issue and would like to patch the area saying that it was "mind-numbingly difficult".

Hopefully the designers go through with the idea.

Source: https://forum.guildwars.com/forum/fo...-explorable%5C

Kook~NBK~ · Aug 07, 2011, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Glad to see that A-Net is aware of the player base's concerns about the post-WoC MCE nightma...errr, I mean vanquish.

Jeydra · Aug 09, 2011, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attiq

If you mean me......

Weirdly enough a Derv (thats me) and a Monk..... and I am serious we get slaughtered everytime.... used the Rits and everything and dead on the second group everytime....

Soon as I tried solo as a test killed 5 sets without a pause or death.... soon as Monk came in its like the damage got up'ed and we died..... and then I'll try again with the 3 heroes and fly through the groups again..... Monk comes in Damage goes up we all die....

And before you say it might be the Monk its not cause the player is a good player....

I can't see a reason why a Derv can't do this without resorting to spiritway, as long as he practises body-blocking techniques. A Monk is an integral part in such teambuilds, and your partner just happens to be a Monk.

What I'd start with: Derv with "Save Yourselves!", "I Am Unstoppable!", Banishing Strike, bunch of damage. Monk brings Strength of Honour, Shield of Absorption and idk what else. Then the SoS with Splinter, and the SoGM. The only problem with this teambuild is the Dervish needs to be very good at aggro control; the Monk is just there for the ride.

@Man W/ Club, I don't know what you call fun. I know plenty of people who don't think playing Guild Wars is fun. If I were the developers, "fun" is something I wouldn't base my decisions on.

Man W/ Club · Aug 09, 2011, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

@Man W/ Club, I don't know what you call fun. I know plenty of people who don't think playing Guild Wars is fun. If I were the developers, "fun" is something I wouldn't base my decisions on.

pretty sure the devs would disagree. I mean, look at the whole mission statement for GW2. (it's a different dev team though but same company)
They want people TO PLAY THE GAME, not rice-farm.

Now, in this case concerning the ridiculous Cho's Estate, you could argue that the challenge is less boring and makes your penis larger if you beat it, but, the time and effort to do it is not worth it at all.

With that time and effort I would rather GvG all day then kill ai all day.

Leslie · Sep 02, 2011, 12:39 AM // 00:39

couldn't agree more that this area is ridiculously tough. Angel and I are vanquishers of elona, and 32 / 33 on Cantha, but this is the one we just can't beat. The scavengers have such huge amounts of healing, damage mitigation and removals, as well as tonnes of snares and spike damage; for a party of four that's a serious buzzkill.

If I'd known this would happen before I did the WoC quest, no way in hell would I have taken it before vanquishing. I kind of feel like we should have been more aware of what to expect, and hope Anet will consider adjusting the spawns or giving us the choice of vanquishing a pre-WoC cho's estate.

What I also don't understand is how being in a party with someone that hasn't started WoC still causes the Scavengers to spawn. That makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Gli · Sep 02, 2011, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Actually, they fixed this today. Still scavengers, but only groups of 4 now. Seems fair, going 4 against 4.

bj91x · Sep 02, 2011, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Glad to hear that vanquishers got what they wanted. I'm not a vanquisher but I've VQed enough areas to understand what the difficulty range for a VQ is. I've completed Rescue at Minister Cho's Estate in HM and if the difficulty for this VQ was similar to the quest (which seemed to be the case based on what I read), I agree that this kind of difficulty doesn't fit a VQ.

Considering a lot of none-elite GW players started their VQ title knowing they were good enough to VQ the game, it would have been frustrating if an update made it too hard for majority of these players to completed the VQ title... especially if the only VQ they had left was this zone... ouch.

Iuris · Sep 02, 2011, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Personally, I think they just forgot that Minister Cho's estate area is a 4 man and not 6 man area

Fluffy Kittens · Sep 06, 2011, 09:00 AM // 09:00

you can do it within an hour with conset and summoning stone

Devonas big Sister · Nov 09, 2011, 09:31 PM // 21:31

This might be a late reply but I still struggle with this vanquish.

As a warrior i do not have as much a freedom as to spam spirits or spike from range. All you can really try here is be a tank, but that would also mean losing a rough third of my party's damage. And STILL groups are a problem.
I've also tried conset minions + summoning stone + ruby Djinn (asura skill) + pets + echo sin Support and the like just for the benefit in numbers. This made me vanquish some other hard to do places. But this just can't be done.
I can see myself do this with a casterclass, but not as the melee-man.

Since they already nerfed the area down a BIT I can't see the devs do it again.

What I like to know is how people actually managed to do this. Meta-builds and my almost endless supply of creativity are letting me down.
It is about my final title i need to complete 50/50 in the Hall and a must if i want to reach GWAMM sticking to my playstyle.

Anyone got some constructive things to share with those still struggling?

MisterB · Nov 19, 2011, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devonas big Sister

This might be a late reply but I still struggle with this vanquish.

As a warrior i do not have as much a freedom as to spam spirits or spike from range. All you can really try here is be a tank, but that would also mean losing a rough third of my party's damage. And STILL groups are a problem.
I've also tried conset minions + summoning stone + ruby Djinn (asura skill) + pets + echo sin Support and the like just for the benefit in numbers. This made me vanquish some other hard to do places. But this just can't be done.
I can see myself do this with a casterclass, but not as the melee-man.

Since they already nerfed the area down a BIT I can't see the devs do it again.

What I like to know is how people actually managed to do this. Meta-builds and my almost endless supply of creativity are letting me down.
It is about my final title i need to complete 50/50 in the Hall and a must if i want to reach GWAMM sticking to my playstyle.

Anyone got some constructive things to share with those still struggling?

I vanquished it as a warrior after the update that reduced group size from six to four. You don't need to tank or bring a defensive build, but body blocking, pulling, and positioning help immensely. Consumables shouldn't be necessary either, although party morale boosts or death penalty removal can be helpful. Res scrolls can save you a hard res slot on the team. Builds I used are shown in this screenshot.

Rending Aura and Pious Restoration(8 in Wind Prayers for the 2 hex breakpoint) were used so I had hex removal, enchant stripping, and a self heal for emergencies. Those 2 slots could be changed to Test of Faith and then a Warrior IAS & IMS if you don't want to use them or Drunken Master. Condition removal was a bit overkill, but I really hate blind, weakness, and cripple as warrior.

The vanquish isn't too hard if you do long pulls(half compass range or more, and use a flatbow or longbow) to separate groups from other patrols. Use individual flags to separate your heroes, and choose a spot to pull and fight that will allow you to body block any melee. There are walls and stairs and corners all throughout the zone that makes this easy.

On topic, the Sept. 1 update fixed this issue as far as I'm concerned. According to ANet's support forum, they don't seem to have any plans to change this zone any further.

gteddie · Nov 21, 2011, 07:50 AM // 07:50

i am 32/33 and utterly stuck on this lol