Curse

Del · Oct 12, 2011, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

the PvE signposts should be removed from the Great Temple, so the only place to take those quests is Embark Beach.

So, get rid of conveniently placed NPCs to force people to use Embark beach, rather than Embark Beach being fixed? That's pretty dumb.

MithranArkanere · Oct 12, 2011, 05:00 PM // 17:00

It's not dumb. The Great Temple is the PvP hub, embark beach is the PvE hub.
Each one has its purposes.

Now that Embarch beach is here, keeping them there is like adding them to the Guild Hall.
That would be counter-productive, and dumb.

It would be more like removing male urinals from the female bathrooms.

On top of that, only embark beach has the Vanquish ones, and only the Great Temple has the PvP one.
So there are two that are in both, but not all. That's inconsistent. Inconsistencies are to be removed.

Del · Oct 12, 2011, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

It's not dumb. The Great Temple is the PvP hub, embark beach is the PvE hub.
Each one has its purposes.

Now that Embarch beach is here, keeping them there is like adding them to the Guild Hall.
That would be counter-productive, and dumb.

It would be more like removing male urinals from the female bathrooms.

On top of that, only embark beach has the Vanquish ones, and only the Great Temple has the PvP one.
So there are two that are in both, but not all. That's inconsistent. Inconsistencies are to be removed.

That's how you ry to justify forcing people to use a poorly designed outpost? Weak.

MithranArkanere · Oct 12, 2011, 08:47 PM // 20:47

A good outpost is not one in which everything is right around you without barely having to move at all.

That makes player stick to one place instead moving around.

An outpost in which you have to walk around to get to places is better. It makes people walk around and makes it livelier.

If what you want is something more like Front Mission menus in which everything is accessed without actually having a character moving around, then sorry, but you won't find that.

Del · Oct 12, 2011, 09:58 PM // 21:58

The outpost was implemented for forming parties, and the agents were implemented for leaving to missions conveniently. I'm not saying I want everything accessed without having to move around, but that gtob is a better outpost because you don't waste time running across a big ass outpost just to get to a particular NPC. And for an outpost designed for convenience, it defeats the purpose if in the time you can run to the travel agent you're looking, you could just map 2-3 times and get where you're going faster.

The "liveliness" of the outpost is also shit reasoning for why a big spread out outpost like EB is good, because no one plays games to stare in awe of how lively an outpost is, but to get out of the outpost and actually play. Forcing people to use EB by removing the bounty and mission signs is also asinine because it's basically just asking the live team to go out of their way to inconvenience players for no better reason than to make them use a shitty outpost.

Premium Unleaded · Oct 12, 2011, 10:18 PM // 22:18

The whole concept of map travel, one of the core features in this game, is to remove the barrier of having to waste time travelling from outpost to outpost. Embark's design at the moment is the antithesis of this.

**cosyfiep** · Oct 12, 2011, 11:00 PM // 23:00

ease of use is also a part of outposts....take a look at henge of denravi--its HUGE and almost always TOTALLY EMPTY...Ammmoon Oasis--huge, usually empty. heck even Dorknars is usually pretty sparse (except during holidays)....and its not all because everyone is trading in kamadan....LA, Kaineng and Kamadan are the right size for getting around, stuff is pretty much set it good locations (minus a few--hence the extra added storage at either ends). gtob is small--but everything is only a second or two away for you--this makes it very easy to use--user friendly. embark beach is NOT user friendly...first you have to figure out where you popped in (2 seconds lost), then chances are you are not near what you popped in to get (2+ seconds lost running)...
would have made more sense to put all the silly travel npcs together, have only ONE set of other npcs (I know its a bigger place, but none of the large outposts have triple npcs!)...if you think about it---the triple npcs---if it were a good plan would NOT have been needed AT ALL! The fact that they put 3 of just about every npc in makes me believe that even they thought the place wasnt well thought out either.

Slayer Frost · Oct 12, 2011, 11:26 PM // 23:26

The should just have updated the ship icon on the travel map to include all outposts, would be so much better then running all over Embark to find the right guy that can take you where you need to go.

The Drunkard · Oct 13, 2011, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

A good outpost is not one in which everything is right around you without barely having to move at all.

That makes player stick to one place instead moving around.

An outpost in which you have to walk around to get to places is better. It makes people walk around and makes it livelier.

Then why is Kamadan used as the main trading hub? I personally like it out of the three main cities because I don't have to hunt down the mat traders or the storage- everything is centrallized.

Tbh the only time I go to embark is to grab the vanquish quests- otherwise I use the portal when going to tyria to bypass LA. It takes more time running around the outpost finding the scouts than it does just map travelling. However, the ideas suggested by the OP might help embark actually see some use.

/signed

Vampire of Bone · Oct 13, 2011, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Its embark beach (you probably know that now but meh)
Also the idea was that you could more easily access most areas:

You cant travel to DoA
all of the [Campaign Travel] people are miles away from wherever you spawn making it easier and faster to just do the extra map

Embark Beach would be better if it was a box with a guy that could craft all the consets and another guy that could take you to:
Goa
Prophecies missions
Factions missions
Nightfall missions
maybe a material trader or two, sure it wouldnt look as nice but itd be a hell of a lot easier.

gremlin · Oct 13, 2011, 11:13 PM // 23:13

The problem for me with embark Beach is one of navigation.
The other trading centres are just as spread out but they have a central focus area usually an open courtyard, a gate to the outside world and a harbour area.

I know in Kamadan that the merchant, skills rune and dye traders are by the gate so is storage.
Opposite end of the town has weapons and armour another merchant and some storage just down by the harbour.

Kaining centre similar with a lot of traders in a lower open area armour and weapons in their own little nich, you get lost a couple of times but it quickly becomes familiar.

Lions arch has been updated since the early days with more storage but again the architecture and gate makes orientation easy.
You have to move around a fair bit in all of them but at least you know instantly where you are running.

Embark beach is a loose collection of wooden structures pretty much the same as each other and set amongst some small hills.
It has the feel of being recently set up so I would hope that over time the traders get some permanent structures set up and move a few of the resources around.

If only the game remembered where you were at eb when you last visited and always returned you there it would be a big help.

Cuilan · Oct 14, 2011, 02:19 AM // 02:19

I still find new players getting stuck there asking me questions like "how I do quest." Their only option is to really make a new character if nobody answers them well.

Star_Jewel · Oct 14, 2011, 06:03 AM // 06:03

The size and spread of Embark Beach has kept me away. I can't stand having to orient myself, holding down all names and turning my camera to find which blob of NPCs I need to head towards. I could probably deal with that if we had a constant environmental effect to make running from camp to camp a bit faster. But as it is, I only go there when I absolutely have to: To pick up the ZV or buy consumables. The consumable crafters are handy -- it's easier to go there than have to map all over North -- but for Zaishen quests, I personally would prefer 4 signposts in both EB and GToB. Drives me batty having to map PvX characters to both outposts to pick up all the quests, mainly because it just smacks of lazy programming.
And God help me if I want to turn in a ZQ and happen to map in at the Elonian camp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I still find new players getting stuck there asking me questions like "how I do quest."

This is the biggest EB fail on ANet's part. As little time as I spend at EB, every occasion I'm there, I see at least one newbie in Local asking, "Um, how do I leave this place?"
They either need to make the directions more explicit or create a "Leave Embark Beach" button on the party panel to return one to their last outpost, similar to the Guild Hall tab. I realize it's probably not the same programming mechanic as for the GH tab, since EB is itself an outpost, but something really needs to be done. I feel sorry for these lost newbies, especially when they get smartass tips like "Press Alt+F4."

Skyy High · Oct 14, 2011, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I still find new players getting stuck there asking me questions like "how I do quest." Their only option is to really make a new character if nobody answers them well.

Indeed, I've seen this too. It's like a newbie death trap. Zaishen Scouts shouldn't have quest markers over their heads (or, at least, not the same ones as normal quest givers).

Miteshu · Oct 14, 2011, 02:17 PM // 14:17

I don't really care about your suggestions but I agree that Embark Bay should be more useful.

I prefer if teleport NPC are parked closer to each other. The time to get from Zenchu to the Elona NPC is pathetic. I find that using map travel is easier, with Heroes being better organized, it makes map traveling easier due to adding party members.

ErinMaelranaidh · Oct 14, 2011, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Murphy's Law being what it is, you can be sure to spawn at the opposite side of the NPC you want to speak to, each time you zone into EB. Nine times out ten. x)

Otherwise, maybe suggested before but anyway... Even if we don't have to speak to them much often, I think that putting Storybooks NPC in Embark Beach would not be a bad idea. At least, it would not be inconsistent with its purpose.

Aviator The Hunter · Oct 14, 2011, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Well I disagree to make it more useful than now.. It'll kill the travels between the major cities..

Tactical-Dillusions · Oct 19, 2011, 07:23 PM // 19:23

More usefulness can never be a bad thing!

I'd have thought portals, like the ones leading to the next levels in Dragons lair, but each leading to ToA etc might have been better than NPC's with big lists of locations. Even one NPC with an interactive map of all continents would be better.

It's been mentioned, but i agree with a speed buff in EB. Perhaps less cliffs and rocks too. A cool feature would be to allow weapons and ranger pets to be shown in Embark Beach. It would add an extra attraction.

The Super Chilli · Oct 21, 2011, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Im relatively neutral about EB. Time could have been better spent delevoping weaker sections of the game (but thats another tread).

The thing that gets me is that no effort has been made to integrate it into this years Halloween festivals. If some quests too part there or even started forming there it could give EB the much needed kick its been waiting for.

I remember how april fools took place there, and it brought the place to life...seems a long time ago though

Outerworld · Oct 21, 2011, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Super Chilli

Im relatively neutral about EB. Time could have been better spent delevoping weaker sections of the game (but thats another tread).

The thing that gets me is that no effort has been made to integrate it into this years Halloween festivals. If some quests too part there or even started forming there it could give EB the much needed kick its been waiting for.

I remember how april fools took place there, and it brought the place to life...seems a long time ago though

Wouldn't be much point, it would just die again as soon as Halloween ended.