Curse

SardaTheSage · Mar 09, 2011, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Edit, quoting my second post because it really says all that needs to be said:

Quote:

The problem here is that it is possible to screw up your character in a way that cannot be fixed short of starting a new character. With the recent changes to survivor, it seems like ANet is trying to move away from allowing that sort of situation. Now, there are only 2 situations I can think of in which you can permanently have a character stuck in an inconvenient situation.

1) You accidentally leave pre-searing.
2) You plan to stay in pre-searing and chose the wrong secondary.

Problem #1 cannot be fixed because that would mean allowing characters to return to pre-searing, which would ruin the whole point of it. #2 on the other hand, has a relatively simple solution, so why not fix it?

Last week's update brought a few changes to pre-searing that have, I think, breathed new life into that particular aspect of the game. I myself have started playing on my perma-pre monk again and am going to try for a second LDoA (my current one is post-searing). Unfortunately, I have found myself in a bit of a bad situation.

Since I no longer really felt the need to start saving quests for level 19, I began questing and soon ended up choosing a secondary profession. I almost immediately regretted my choice of secondary profession. This was further compounded when I found out that there is a new skill trainer that makes it possible to learn skills that were previously restricted to primary professions only in pre (e.g. Flare and Empathy), which would have affected my decision.

So, now, having made a poor decision, I am forced to choose between the following options: 1) Delete my 44-month old character and start over, 2) struggle on with a mediocre secondary profession, or 3) buy another character slot and start over.

Given the recent update to pre-searing, it seems reasonable to me that ANet could provide an alternative - a profession changer that becomes available once the player has reached a certain level (either level 10, as with the skills trainer, or perhaps level 15 if ANet feels 10 is too low).

The only possible downside that I could see to this is that some people, for whatever reason, might feel the need to reach that level and unlock all the secondaries before leaving pre. The solution to this would be that when a character leaves pre-searing, they become locked in their current secondary profession until the normal criteria for changing secondary professions have been met. This way, the change would only affect those who plan to stay in pre-searing. For those leaving, it would generally be easier to leave and then change their secondary than to try and level up to the point that they could do it in pre (since all you need to do is get to LA then go to GToB).

Any thoughts/comments?

Rites · Mar 09, 2011, 03:09 AM // 03:09

if they do this, then they might as well provide all the other bonuses that you get from post ie: max armor, storage, henchies/heroes

seriously, pre was only meant as a training ground. the reasoning behind the recent updates was to make it easier to get LDoA without their servers being full of deathlevelers. now you want one of the benefits of actually moving on to be implemented into the beginning of the game?

ascension is a big part of the prophecies storyline which allows you to then change secondaries, if they allow you to ascend in pre, then the whole story goes down the drain.

/NOTsigned

the game has become so boringly easy, and still people want it easier, pathetic

plus not to mention the fact that you want the devs to make changes based off of a stupid judgement call on your part. a little petty don't you think

go cubs · Mar 09, 2011, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Ok, true storyline would be fked....

yeah, Itd be nice though, I guess i can just finish my LDoA haha...Mo/E is fun is shit tho...

SardaTheSage · Mar 09, 2011, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

if they do this, then they might as well provide all the other bonuses that you get from post ie: max armor, storage, henchies/heroes

seriously, pre was only meant as a training ground. the reasoning behind the recent updates was to make it easier to get LDoA without their servers being full of deathlevelers. now you want one of the benefits of actually moving on to be implemented into the beginning of the game?

ascension is a big part of the prophecies storyline which allows you to then change secondaries, if they allow you to ascend in pre, then the whole story goes down the drain.

/NOTsigned

the game has become so boringly easy, and still people want it easier, pathetic

plus not to mention the fact that you want the devs to make changes based off of a stupid judgement call on your part. a little petty don't you think

No, I don't want any of those things, and I think that pre is fine without them. The problem here is that it is possible to screw up your character in a way that cannot be fixed short of starting a new character. With the recent changes to survivor, it seems like ANet is trying to move away from allowing that sort of situation. Now, there are only 2 situations I can think of in which you can permanently have a character stuck in an inconvenient situation.

1) You accidentally leave pre-searing.
2) You plan to stay in pre-searing and chose the wrong secondary.

Problem #1 cannot be fixed because that would mean allowing characters to return to pre-searing, which would ruin the whole point of it. #2 on the other hand, has a relatively simple solution, so why not fix it?

Rites · Mar 09, 2011, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SardaTheSage

2) You plan to stay in pre-searing and chose the wrong secondary.

Problem #1 cannot be fixed because that would mean allowing characters to return to pre-searing, which would ruin the whole point of it. #2 on the other hand, has a relatively simple solution, so why not fix it?

because your solution for problem #2 is based upon an aspect of the game that you earn when you achieve the proper level/quest in the storyline.

with your chain of thought, then they should make it so you can change secondaries from the starting point in all campaigns, which would break the storylines completely

pre is a TRAINING ground, thats why they let you test all the secondaries before you choose. just because your ignorance caused you to choose the wrong profession does not mean that the whole game should be broken to accommodate you. if you dont like your secondary, then PROGRESS in the storyline to where you need to go so you can change it

RedDog91 · Mar 09, 2011, 03:43 AM // 03:43

In order to change your secondary in Tyria, you must be ascended. The quest of ascension takes place in the Crystal Desrt, which you cannot access in pre-searing.

I don't want to be the one that has to explain to Turai Osa that he and his followers died for nothing in the desert when they could have searched for ascension in the lush green fields of Ascalon.

Shayne Hawke · Mar 09, 2011, 03:58 AM // 03:58

You can already change your secondary as much as you want in pre-Searing. All you need to do is not accept the rewards from the quests that would give you a secondary. It doesn't count as your secondary profession, and you lose the option to re-learn those skills if you complete the quest, but you essentially do have the option to switch your secondary while you are in pre-Searing.

If you are going for LDoA or LS, I have no idea why you would make your secondary to be anything besides Ranger, unless you are already a Ranger.

Rites · Mar 09, 2011, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

You can already change your secondary as much as you want in pre-Searing. All you need to do is not accept the rewards from the quests that would give you a secondary. It doesn't count as your secondary profession, and you lose the option to re-learn those skills if you complete the quest, but you essentially do have the option to switch your secondary while you are in pre-Searing.

If you are going for LDoA or LS, I have no idea why you would make your secondary to be anything besides Ranger, unless you are already a Ranger.

but that was the reason of his whole post. he made a stupid mistake and accepted the rewards thus plugging him into a secondary that he now regrets. so his solution to this problem is to break the storyline so he doesn't have to start over

SardaTheSage · Mar 09, 2011, 04:09 AM // 04:09

In Nightfall, you just need to do the quests for building up the Command Post in order to change secondaries, and as far as I know, no explanation is ever given for why this is possible, but I don't see people complaining about it. If ANet is worried about the lore, they can put in a quest requirement for it. Personally, I don't care and it wouldn't ruin my immersion or anything.

I appreciate Tyria's rich lore and I enjoy the GW storyline, but I don't think it's all that relevant to the suggestion here. I'm just thinking about this from a game design perspective. Lore can be fabricated to accommodate the change if necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

You can already change your secondary as much as you want in pre-Searing. All you need to do is not accept the rewards from the quests that would give you a secondary. It doesn't count as your secondary profession, and you lose the option to re-learn those skills if you complete the quest, but you essentially do have the option to switch your secondary while you are in pre-Searing.

If you are going for LDoA or LS, I have no idea why you would make your secondary to be anything besides Ranger, unless you are already a Ranger.

You can't put attribute points in secondary attributes unless you choose a secondary. Also, /Me is better.

Kojima · Mar 09, 2011, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Don see the need for a profession changer at all in pre.
1) You can change your secondary as often as you need to without any problems as long as you do not give in the quest. If you did, then it is your lost.
2) Pre searing is in Tyria storyline and the only way in Tyria to change your profession is to ascend. This should not be changed just because the other two campaigns had made it easier. Pre-sear Ascalon has nothing to do with the other two campaigns.
3) So you have made a mistake. Learn from it by either starting over or not. I can imagine the amount of mistakes everyone made in the game, even the best of us. We all learn not to do certain things again and again to get what we all got.

Rites · Mar 09, 2011, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by SardaTheSage

In Nightfall, you just need to do the quests for building up the Command Post in order to change secondaries, and as far as I know, no explanation is ever given for why this is possible, but I don't see people complaining about it.

in building the command post your character takes command of the sunspears, and the benefit for that is the ability to change your secondary

in cantha, by becoming Weh no Su, you are able to channel your energies better to combat the spirits (Shiro). with this renewed insight, you are able to learn more than the average mortal (aka second class can be changed)

in tyria: Quoted from Guild Wars Wiki:

Quote:

Ascension is a legendary feat that gives characters the blessings of the gods of Tyria, and the gift of True Sight.

so you are saying you want the characters to be able to recieve the blessings of the gods earlier just because of your ignorance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

I was wondering how long it would take before someone suggested this. We were lucky enough to get the "updates" to Pre-Searing as is, and even they are a little bit out of league for the tutorial area.

/agreed

the simple fact of the matter is that pre-searing was only meant to be a training field, it was never their intention for people to stay. the fact that people have however, has caused some changes to be made to accommodate those players, but if you stick in all aspects of the game into pre, then why should anyone move on in the storyline?

SardaTheSage · Mar 09, 2011, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

the simple fact of the matter is that pre-searing was only meant to be a training field, it was never their intention for people to stay. the fact that people have however, has caused some changes to be made to accommodate those players, but if you stick in all aspects of the game into pre, then why should anyone move on in the storyline?

I edited my second post into the OP because you all seem to be ignoring it. You're missing the point entirely.

The potential for a player to screw up their character in a way that is irreparable seems to be contrary to ANet's design philosophy.

Indigo Diablo · Mar 09, 2011, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by SardaTheSage

The potential for a player to screw up their character in a way that is irreparable seems to be contrary to ANet's design philosophy.

Grab hold of yourself there; you can repair the character. Suffer through your bad choice, get LDoA, sear, ascend. That will solve your problem.

Think if you were making this statement about your primary profession. "But I really wanted a Necromancer!"

Rites · Mar 09, 2011, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by SardaTheSage

contrary to ANet's design philosophy.

having a perma pre character also falls into this. whats your arguement on that

SardaTheSage · Mar 09, 2011, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

having a perma pre character also falls into this. whats your arguement on that

It's true that it was not intended, but it is something that they have been trying to accommodate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indigo Diablo

Grab hold of yourself there; you can repair the character. Suffer through your bad choice, get LDoA, sear, ascend. That will solve your problem.

Think if you were making this statement about your primary profession. "But I really wanted a Necromancer!"

I have no intention of ever leaving pre on this character. I already have an LDoA in post-searing. As for your second point - nice strawman btw - that was a choice made in character creation, which is quite different from gameplay consequences. At the point when you made that decision, you had nothing invested in the character.

Rites · Mar 09, 2011, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by SardaTheSage

I have no intention of ever leaving pre on this character.

then you have one choice... suffer the consequences of your mistakes by having a secondary you do not like.

ANet has done enough "Accommodating" for a training area, they dont need to do anymore.

Kook~NBK~ · Mar 09, 2011, 06:08 AM // 06:08

/not signed.

1. More experienced players shouldn't make the mistake of choosing the wrong secondary.

2. If one isn't happy with their choice of secondaries in Pre-searing, they haven't invested that much time in that character, so re-rolling isn't a big deal.

3. It's Pre-searing - an area that is very forgiving of mistakes like that, even when dealing with the higher-level enemies that come with the new quests. (And even on into post.)

4. New players are generally interested in playing through & learning the game, not grinding out some obscure (to them) title. So they won't be hanging out in pre-searing anyway

5. It seems to me that this suggestion has an ulterior motive - to allow players who have taken a secondary profession the ability, however limited, to modify their builds when tackling the new quests. Taking a secondary profession is something that experienced, aspiring LDoA's would not do until they reached 16 or 19 prior to the update since they know that saving that XP for later is the better option. (By that time, one would hope that one would know the "best" secondary to take before accepting it.)

Scorpion Knifehand · Mar 09, 2011, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Dude, it's Pre. You can't really mess up your secondary. I'm sure that whatever you're stuck with will kill everything there just fine.

drkn · Mar 09, 2011, 07:55 AM // 07:55

If you're planning LDoA, you're probably already an experienced PvE player, bored with post-searing enough to get back to pre.
If you're planning perma-pre char, see above.
Story-wise, you gain the ability to change your secondary only after ascension, or similar act in the other campaigns.
Mechanically, you can switch your secondary as long as you don't accept the quest reward, which is not useful anyway.

I've made E/N that's going for LDoA, accepted the quests, and i'd love to change it to E/Mo or E/Me instead, but meh - it's not worth breaking the game's story and flooding pre with even more NPCs.

Aeronwen · Mar 09, 2011, 08:41 AM // 08:41

No I do not think you should be allowed to change secondaries in pre. If you made a mistake either live with it or restart.

Pre has already been ruined to accommodate those who want title without effort.

But I do think that it is illogical for the skills npc to offer skills for your primary/secondary but not to offer the free skills that you get when taking (not completing) the initial secondary quests if you still have not yet accepted a secondary.