Curse

Renowned Spartan · Jul 19, 2012, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick1027

no what was sad was having to wait til we got favor so we could play an area of the game. i know those names cause i did halls and was part of one of those group we didnt care one way or another about favor we just wanted to win. i remember after i was done with pvp waiting days on end to be able to play uw or fow. no the title system was better always gave you the scroll route if not enough titles were earned. i havent waited a single minute to play one of those areas afterwards since the change

Apart from your horrific gramatical attempt at downplaying the significance of HoH, you sir, are the minority if you think that people didn't play tombs back in the day to win favor and get into FoW/UW. Winning was a bonus, seeing your name pop up across the game was cool, and being able to go into UW/FoW to farm ecto's and shards was the selling point at the infancy of this game.

Premium Unleaded · Jul 19, 2012, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Pretty sure 99% of everyone who did tombs/ha did it either 1) because they actually enjoyed it and/or 2) because they wanted (to farm) fame.

Renowned Spartan · Jul 19, 2012, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium Unleaded

Pretty sure 99% of everyone who did tombs/ha did it either 1) because they actually enjoyed it and/or 2) because they wanted (to farm) fame.

I wish I had there where-with-all to pull random statistics out of my ass just like you. Unfortunately, I can't bring myself to do it. While those statements are partially true, it is EASILY arguable that once again, for those that don't read, tombs upkeep and popularity in it's infancy was also largely dependent on the favor system being impacted by it.

Take it from someone who played tombs when it was first really starting to get played.

Premium Unleaded · Jul 19, 2012, 06:14 PM // 18:14

You're talking about a very brief period in the game, when things like shitting out 9001 fertile seasons was meta for holding halls, and quite possibly even before then during the earliest months of the game proper. It bears little relevance to what the motivation was for most of those actively doing it, and denying that fame/rank & the competition itself were by far the biggest alure of it is denying the truth.

Renowned Spartan · Jul 19, 2012, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I can't argue a point that you're obviously having a hard time wrapping your thick skull around.

People could care less about fame and rank at the infancy (shall I bold, underline and italicize this word for you?) of this game. Most people couldn't comprehend the basic schematics of PvP at this point. Fame was an obsolete number, titles were not around, and emotes were undefined by the amount of fame they required. Tombs was played for the thrill of winning fame, seeing your name flash across the screen in game worldwide..and again, for the sake of getting you and your PvE buddies into untapped, unexplored, unknown areas in the game such as UW/FoW (we're talking before 55 monks, before SS necros here).

Edit: This whole "tiff" between our arguments has been regarding this game in it's infancy which most people still playing today were not around for.

I still maintain my original argument that removing tombs favor was a big mistake.

rick1027 · Jul 19, 2012, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renowned Spartan

I can't argue a point that you're obviously having a hard time wrapping your thick skull around.

People could care less about fame and rank at the infancy (shall I bold, underline and italicize this word for you?) of this game. Most people couldn't comprehend the basic schematics of PvP at this point. Fame was an obsolete number, titles were not around, and emotes were undefined by the amount of fame they required. Tombs was played for the thrill of winning fame, seeing your name flash across the screen in game worldwide..and again, for the sake of getting you and your PvE buddies into untapped, unexplored, unknown areas in the game such as UW/FoW (we're talking before 55 monks, before SS necros here).

Edit: This whole "tiff" between our arguments has been regarding this game in it's infancy which most people still playing today were not around for.

I still maintain my original argument that removing tombs favor was a big mistake.

then why when they got the emotes they flashed them at everyone. nope when i was doing tombs i was doing it cause i wanted to win get fame and rank and when i played fow or uw i didnt care. i think your wrong i never saw people in toa say lets form a group so we can win favor so we can play fow or uw nor did i ever see group say lets quite our streak to go play fow or uw. pvp and pve have never cared what either did and you could see that by the thread here on guru with complaints of adjusting skill for pvp versus the pve crowd. the exact reason why they split some skills.

Winner · Jul 20, 2012, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renowned Spartan

.

People could care less about fame and rank at the infancy (shall I bold, underline and italicize this word for you?) of this game. Most people couldn't comprehend the basic schematics of PvP at this point. Fame was an obsolete number, titles were not around, and emotes were undefined by the amount of fame they required. Tombs was played for the thrill of winning fame, seeing your name flash across the screen in game worldwide..and again, for the sake of getting you and your PvE buddies into untapped, unexplored, unknown areas in the game such as UW/FoW (we're talking before 55 monks, before SS necros here).

I still maintain my original argument that removing tombs favor was a big mistake.

You're talking about what? First 6 months of GW, which is 7 year old game. If you played back than it doesn't make you any better than people who started 6 months ago. Actually the ones who started later should be more skilled, simply because nowadays everyone knows what to do, everyone knows what to play (talking about serious HA players). And back in the old days, it was the smart ones who adapted faster against everyone else (complete newbies).
Also, I didn't care about winning or losing favour that much, sure it was cool to see it going away from the americans. I did care about fame because it was a challenge, it was a title to get, a final goal to achieve, and the best way of doing it was while actually having fun and competing against other players, and the best part of all that, at least for me was winning HoH and getting dozens of random people saying grats and all that, that is prolly what kept me going for all those years. I played HA almost since the beginning and I never abandoned it (ok I had 2x few months breaks but thats all). And I can say that HA was getting more and more competitive and fun as the years went by, and if it had its old activity now it would be more fun than ever.

But, I still think it would be a terrible idea to introduce the favour system as it was before. It would be heavily abused by all those german players using japanese or korean guild names, and I'm sure many more would follow their example just to look "cool".

MithranArkanere · Jul 20, 2012, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auron of Neon

Appreciation for... what, exactly? They haven't accomplished anything. It took a shitload of effort to get to Hall of Heroes, let alone win it, let alone win it 5 times in a row to change the favor of the gods. It was a literal achievement in every sense of the word, and their name being displayed to every player was a fitting reward for their effort and accomplishment.

Opening a chest and finding a rare item takes no skill, and isn't an accomplishment - there's nothing to be rewarded for, and certainly not enough to have their name displayed. The reward of opening the chest is the contents of the chest - whatever purple or gold item you manage to find. It's a reward balanced around the difficulty of the task - as in, it's not difficult at all to obtain or open those chests, so the rewards aren't as great.

Adding in a name display small drop chance item for opening a lockbox is pointless. Keep rewards meaningful and in perspective.

Looks like you though I suggested any chest to drop such item, which I didn't suggest, and so I must assume that you didn't read what I wrote, but simply skimmed though it.
To understand a post, you must read it, I mean, actually read it. If you don't, when you answer a post someone else made, you won't be answering them, you'll be wasting everyone's time.

Anyways...

The only reason it was hard for some people to get to the Hall of Heroes was because there was quite some other people trying to do the same from all over the world.
It was the people and the competition what generated the need for skill, and people developed their skill in response to that.

Now there aren't that many people. And no matter what you do, you won't attract as many people there (or anywhere for that matter) anymore.
They switched to titles, but titles won't do it anymore either. As the flow of new players decreases and the existing ones have less and less titles to get.
That's why

So instead relying in people winning in the hall, or people getting achievements, you must make something that can be done by the people that is left, anytime even if they already got all titles, even if they are few, even if it's just one.

This means something that can be done even if it's solo, but not something too fast or too easy. Something like a dungeon or elite mission.
Those have usually a prestige chest at the end.
Just finishing the mission or winning at the HoH could do it, but even better than that, it would be to let people choose when they'll trigger the favor.
You can do that with an item they can keep and save.
That way, when you have time, you can use them all at once one after another, and activate the favor when you'll have use for it.
This also allows selling the item to those interested if you are not interested in favor.

And that's how you get to creating an item to increase favor, and making it drop from Prestige Chests like The Underworld Chest; the chest that should be added at the end of Tombs of Primeval kings but it's not there; the Citadel Chest; and, of course, the chest in the actual HA, because it's alaso a prestige chest with unique drops, and it's HA, and it only makes sense to have a source of favor also there, even if it's just for nostalgia.
As not all 'prestige' chests are as 'prestigious', the rarity of the drop would have to be higher the easier the chest is to get. For example, Fronis' and the Wintersday Past chests won't drop it, as they are insultingly easy, while chest that might drop it would have a higher chance in HM, and the HA and Tombs chests would have a 100% chance to drop one for each player, being the one ones which would have such a high chance.

Then, once they have the item, they can either use it, sell it or, I don't know, shove it up their noses if they want.
They could even make that lazy-ass of the Sigil trader deal with them, so he was something else to do, and people have it easier to buy the stuff from others.

When you use one of these, you'll get less effect than with HA wins or titles, as they'll be slightly easier to get, even if they are rare drops.
Something like 60 scrolls being used (regardless of who uses them) to start favor, and +1 minutes of favor for each additional one used.

As an extra bonus, those who use the scroll would get a system message with their names, so people can know who's the guy they have to thank for the favor being activated.

From my experience, people that skim though text and answer with nonsense will do it repeatedly, so you'll probably skim through the text again and answer with more nonsense, but oh, well, at least this "extended explanation" of my solution to the problem will be there for others to see.

Perkunas · Jul 20, 2012, 02:23 PM // 14:23

The way I see it, you (individually) won favor of the gods when you ascended. IMO, this should now be the only requirement to enter the elite areas, perhaps with an additional cost of 1k for all, except ToPK. I have pretty much gotten all the titles I want, but I would still like to get FoW armor for my main character. I don't need/want to start another title chaser to gain access to UW or FoW.

Renowned Spartan · Jul 20, 2012, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

You're talking about what? First 6 months of GW, which is 7 year old game. If you played back than it doesn't make you any better than people who started 6 months ago. Actually the ones who started later should be more skilled, simply because nowadays everyone knows what to do, everyone knows what to play (talking about serious HA players). And back in the old days, it was the smart ones who adapted faster against everyone else (complete newbies).
Also, I didn't care about winning or losing favour that much, sure it was cool to see it going away from the americans. I did care about fame because it was a challenge, it was a title to get, a final goal to achieve, and the best way of doing it was while actually having fun and competing against other players, and the best part of all that, at least for me was winning HoH and getting dozens of random people saying grats and all that, that is prolly what kept me going for all those years. I played HA almost since the beginning and I never abandoned it (ok I had 2x few months breaks but thats all). And I can say that HA was getting more and more competitive and fun as the years went by, and if it had its old activity now it would be more fun than ever.

But, I still think it would be a terrible idea to introduce the favour system as it was before. It would be heavily abused by all those german players using japanese or korean guild names, and I'm sure many more would follow their example just to look "cool".

1) Cool your jets. I didn't say anyone that played back in the day was more of a skilled player. In their, and my defense, most of those players had the IQ to see the game going in the wrong direction and jumped ship to better, more intriguing games and platforms. Kudos to them. GW2 will be a mere fraction of PvP prowess/presence than GW1 was. Fact, not opinion.Secondly, players back in the day had the creativity to come up with new builds, try new things and see what worked and didn't. Even though I did not state it in my previous point, players who played in the infancy were simply more creative, more attuned, and yes, more skilled than players today. Like you said, players today know what to do. And why is that? Because players of yesteryear gave them the ability to run all kinds of fun builds through their creativity in trying new ideas. They did not have a build, a template code, an armor upload handed to them on a silver plate like today. They tried new skills, applied new armors, and tested new theories to see if they worked. That is not present today. With a simple click I can upload armor, a set of skills and enter HoH and hold halls for as long as I can button smash. But I digress, that is neither here nor there in terms of this argument.

2) Continuing on, you represent an extreme minority in the HA community if you think that the way tombs was going in terms of progression from 8v8 to 6v6 back to 8v8, multiple map changes/introductions, from holding an altar to relic runs and the countless other pure garbage introduced into it was "more competitive and fun as the years went on". Again, fact not opinion. Look at the HA population today which is A) non-existent B) only populated during double point reward systems/quest. This is a direct result of the "let's fix what ain't broken" mentality by developers that killed HA. Sure, skills need nerfing once in a while but formats need not be changed. Holding required skill, timing, communication..a lot of different constituents to go your way. Capturing a relic did not - it required an extremely lag-filled map in Halls, body blocking with tons of spirits and lag filled teams combined with the last of organized groups of cronies or friends deciding to gank one team in order to battle it out. Oh joy, what fun. Luckily players like myself had the where-with-all to run some kind of spike that was near perfect and hard to catch (ie: blood spike). I would argue that there were more interesting builds back in the day (even with all the IWAY garbage) than the SWAY/Thumperway/VIMWAY you saw towards the end of any populated HA district. At least then you had people thinking on their toes to come up with an Ele ball, ranger spike, blood spike, dual smite, monk spike, balance, etc etc..instead of the same old waffle Balance, SWAY..rinse repeat that you saw in 09' when HA was actually last active.

Favor relying on tombs wins in HoH and then subsequently being switched to title farming/grinding is a classic example of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

It is a moot point, really, to try and argue that it should be switched back to the old way or to some new way. It is clear, and understandably so, that GW1 is on the backburner and will most likely fade into mediocrity within the next year as a result of the release of GW2.

Not A Standard Name · Jul 21, 2012, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renowned Spartan

Favor relying on tombs wins in HoH and then subsequently being switched to title farming/grinding is a classic example of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

It was broken and you do nothing but repeat "no it wasn't".
You simply live in a fantasy world and no reasoning is going to take you away from there.
You claim people won favor to then go FoW/UW. Let's assume this happened regularily (it didn't but whatever), this at any time only affects 8 players out of the thousands of players, who wanted to go there.
So you're saying that a comparably extremely small group of maybe 100 players overall should be catered to at the expense of hundreds of thousands of other players, who are simply frustrated by this system, because they can only join a fraction of the time, they build groups but have to disband because favor changed, they agreed to meet but the favor was somewhere else at the time and so on.
You now call these people dumb, because they cannot go into Tombs and win the favor. This is both the most elitist and stupidest thing I ever heard on guru.

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 21, 2012, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Standard Name

It was broken and you do nothing but repeat "no it wasn't".
You simply live in a fantasy world and no reasoning is going to take you away from there.
You claim people won favor to then go FoW/UW. Let's assume this happened regularily (it didn't but whatever), this at any time only affects 8 players out of the thousands of players, who wanted to go there.
So you're saying that a comparably extremely small group of maybe 100 players overall should be catered to at the expense of hundreds of thousands of other players, who are simply frustrated by this system, because they can only join a fraction of the time, they build groups but have to disband because favor changed, they agreed to meet but the favor was somewhere else at the time and so on.
You now call these people dumb, because they cannot go into Tombs and win the favor. This is both the most elitist and stupidest thing I ever heard on guru.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renowned Spartan

Favor relying on tombs wins in HoH and then subsequently being switched to title farming/grinding is a classic example of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

It was changed because there was a distinct dichotomy in the playerbase between PvE and PvP that Anet had not accounted for when they designed the game. Ultimately, the PvE playerbase felt that access to PvE content should not be dependent upon PvP content, especially when it was high end PvE content in a game that didn't have an end game or anything more challenging at the time. Eventually Anet agreed and changed the method of accessing UW/FOW.

It was the same reason they fixed the mechanic of having to play PvE to unlock skills and such for use in PvP. Both may not have been broken mechanics in the base sense of the term, but were badly designed mechanics that were subsequently fixed.

Hanok

Auron of Neon · Jul 21, 2012, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Ultimately, the PvE playerbase felt that access to PvE content should not be dependent upon PvP content, especially when it was high end PvE content in a game that didn't have an end game or anything more challenging at the time.

Guild Wars was designed from the ground up as a PvP game. The PvE campaign was merely an introduction to the basic mechanics and a means to unlock skills - the intended endgame *was* the PvP content.

(This is fact, by the way, not conjecture or opinion - it's how the game was built, and ANet devs discuss how the game was designed around PvP in several interviews).

Premium Unleaded · Jul 21, 2012, 07:32 PM // 19:32

You could have also just pointed towards the 3 crystal desert missions as examples.

Auron of Neon · Jul 22, 2012, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Oh I know :3

Flag running in maguuma missions, relic running, priest annihilation and king of the hill game types introduced in crystal desert (and you got dumped right into tombs/HA at the end of it). ANet's intention was obvious, but some people still manage to miss it somehow.

MithranArkanere · Jul 22, 2012, 07:43 PM // 19:43

The thing about the past is... well... It's past.

How the game originally was is mostly irrelevant when it comes to current designs, the same way you don't look at how a city was several years ago when you are planning a building, because there might be new buildings, and so you must see not only how the city is, but how the city will be along other building projects other people is making.

Still, you might keep in mind how the city was, if you want to stick to it's 'essence', but that's it.

In the same way, you might keep in mind that hall wins were the only source of favor, and add it back there, but you can't count on people going there anymore, and so you must put other alternate sources available to those not doing PvP.

Therefore, an item in prestige chests(Dungeon, Elite mission and PvP chests and maybe even lockboxes) is the best viable option as of now, as anyone that has reached the higher end content of the game is bound to open one of those once in a while.
Having a 100% guaranteed drop per player of such an item in the HoH chest (both the one in HA and the one in Tombs of Primeval Kings) would be an extra touch that would make sure that they are still the main source of favor as they once were.

Winner · Jul 23, 2012, 12:04 PM // 12:04

I really dislike it when people who played the game for first year or two and then abandoned it, come back and think they have all the knowledge in the world. Beginnings of GW weren't as good, the game got way more advanced since then.
@Renowned Spartan - old HoH holding mode sucked, op builds designed just for that would be holding for hours. Sure, people would spend time making builds, but that was just because they didn't have enough knowledge to make a good, working build. These days people know which skills work and which don't, and they still do keep trying to make new builds. Only difference is that now they won't make completely rubbish builds like newbies in the past used to. Would you say that newborn baby is smarter than 7 year old kid? Your point just fails. Everyone was a newbie and "stupid" in beginning, but people advanced now and they did learn how to play.
And of course the HA population is low, it is because entire GW population is low, the game is dying, now that is a fact. It can't be proved by clear facts and figures (pure statistics) unlike your "facts".

HoH wins favour system was bad, it was so easily abused. Sure, I had fun waking up in the mornings and instantly taking the favour from silly yanks, but pve people didn't have fun at all. It was just unfair.
Just keep the favour as it is, it will for for another month at least since people will grind titles for GW 2 (read: WoW 2).

Zaph · Jul 23, 2012, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

Only difference is that now they won't make completely rubbish builds like newbies in the past used to.

I was a newbie once, you were a newbie once, do you know what you're talking about anyway??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

..the game is dying...

This game died long time ago, hello? It's been around for 7 years? Duh!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

GW 2 (read: WoW 2).

Can't compare GW2 and WoW... one is b2p other p2p, and everything is different, they might looks similar... but they are both MMORPG's..

needles to say: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltjqipG2Vx1qje3w7.png

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 23, 2012, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auron of Neon

Guild Wars was designed from the ground up as a PvP game. The PvE campaign was merely an introduction to the basic mechanics and a means to unlock skills - the intended endgame *was* the PvP content.

(This is fact, by the way, not conjecture or opinion - it's how the game was built, and ANet devs discuss how the game was designed around PvP in several interviews).

Oh, I know, though I have also seen comments in the past from the devs that would indicate it was also a PvE focused game. However, it is an absolute that PvP was supposed to be the end game, and hence my comment about the dichotomy of the playerbase being unforseen by the devs design of the game (though in truth it shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone), and my related comments thereafter.

yitjuan · Jul 24, 2012, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chyanne W

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]
Do not give me this is not a fair thing actually it is fair and will open UW and FOW up for everyone without the fear of losing favor or running out of scrolls

3 silver zcoin gives you a scroll, no need favor. Everyone bring 1 silver zcoin for the run. What so hard? Doing Zmission?