Curse

Mintha Syl · Aug 09, 2012, 03:33 PM // 15:33

/absolutely not signed
for all the above reasons, especially what Wielder of Magic said.

Your proposal is something that would kill the game in favour of GW2, again, as the only reason to want titles SO fast is to have your HoM full and move there. Sure not someting for those who REALLY want to keep playing.
Boardwalk open all the time would only make people afk fulltime, thus making servers heavier and keeping people from actual play. Consumables dropping like for events...a sad scenario I don't wanna see. I don't get all this urge for titles without working for them. As said titles are wanted if you have fun in working for them, people who don't find them fun usually just ignore them (like I mostly do). So the only reason for wanting them without work would be hom and gw2...good way to keep the game alive, really.

The only think that would make sense would be turning normal drop rates as they once were, as with less players and SCs and such I can see it hard to aquire rare weapons and such.

Missing HB · Aug 09, 2012, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

/notsigned
Probably the worst suggestion I've ever seen.
There is one big flaw in your way of thinking. That is the assumption that people will actually move to GW 2. I asked tons of OLD and ACTIVE players and NONE of them likes nor wants to get GW 2.
Although it shares the name with guild wars, GW 2 has nothing to do with it. You could also say: "people will quit GW to move on the next WoW expansion." It just makes no sense at all.

Game is supposed to be played. You're not supposed to be lazy and do nothing and get all the rewards (whic his what you're suggesting in your post). If you ever really wanted those titles (pve or pvp) you would've already worked hard to get them. I'm just tired of all those lazy people who just say: "Oh this is too hard, no one wants to help me so I won't do it." If you simply play and love and enjoy the game you'll eventually EARN all your titles and have fun doing so. There is no need to make anything easier than it already is.
My point is simple: just play and enjoy the game.

Your point is totally unvalid for 1 reason ( actually observation) :
- 1st point is an assumption, we both saw how the game was on those gw2 beta week ends. PvP was totally inactive( and for once, i'm not exaggerating at all..)... And it was week end..

The second point turns as a consequence. I found 5 friends to PvP with, unfortunately there are no opponents.. What shall we do ? For that reason, it would be nice to have at least the opportunity to bring in 3-7 henchs in order to be able to compete and to be able to do something else than watching syncs.

I will say /not signed considering that it would just hurt the game more that help( basically those few players left would finish titles in a matter of time, and have nothing to do after..), but the PvP needs a better discussion

Kamedin · Aug 09, 2012, 05:29 PM // 17:29

/not signed. I've heard of arguements similar to this one in a few other games, we should not just open the flood gates and make it for newer players to get everything in only a couple weeks, unlike the older players that took a lot longer to get. Although there are some things that need to be addressed, like PvP, but in a reasonable way.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Aug 09, 2012, 05:43 PM // 17:43

hmm, the "whine cuz they dont wanna work" isnt directed to me i hope, cuz i do get sweet tooth and a few others for fun, but WHILE using cons.
i just think the more droppings should be the future, so we (at least i...) can play the game and at the same time get nice stuff

i also think that people who want this only for titles (and ingame money), dont enjoy the game itself, as i do... i make own challenges and roleplaying ideas (2 chars which only enter lower lvls areas and 1 char which only uses proph+eotn skills and heroes... lorewise)

i also think that if most people here say NO to this beCAUSE they want the titles the hard way (which isnt that hard at all), also dont enjoy the game by itself, at least thats what i can make of it, as they only talk about titles

i mean, i have many ways of playing for fun (including pre sear of course), and i dont NEED titles, i just like to work ntoward them slowly by using sugary buffs (mostly party wide ones), alcohol when i do easier stuff and party while doing easier and random stuff (like nick farms)

i dont join in GW2, so dont need 50/50, heck, i try to avoid getting GWAMM on my chars, by only getting titles i really like

1 more example: i get wisdom by getting chests (normal key ones and elona ones) and treasure hunter by getting kurz/lux/shiverpeak/vabbi keys, so that i dont get unlucky, and can sell lp's as they are popular

and now my question is: how can it hurt the game if people (like me) enjoy GW itself without doing titles and such? if it DOES hurt the game (which we dont know for sure) after GW2, then not many people like GW itself.....

as for my HoM, i got 30/50 in case i'd buy GW2 after all, which i still cant and wont... and i just wanted to get rewards for fun... even though it wont gimme stuff in GW

hope i explained enough, so that people dont think i "whine" (which is lame, as it sounds like people who want some more, are complainers right away, meaning you call them whiners, cuz you cant win the arguement, or dont know what else to say)

i dont try to offend people, just explain something.... sry for going offtopic cuz of it

and thats my point
GW should become more fun for everyone (whether its selling these drops, or using them), so that GW will be fun enough to stay in, and HoM is done easily, so people dont need to stick in GW while wanting to play GW2, they prolly will come back some time after.... really...

Konig Des Todes · Aug 09, 2012, 06:12 PM // 18:12

@OP: Per listed idea

1) 9 rings is perhaps the most lag-causing aspect of all GW1. I'd rather remove it for something that isn't "afk to win" rather than spreading the lag out throughout the year.

2) No thank you. Ruins their uniqueness. There are plenty of alternatives, all still relatively cheap.

3) So what it sounds like you're wanting is to remove the weekend events, thus removing the primary thing that centralizes the PvP community at certain places each weekend, and make the benefits of each weekend the "norm" (effectively, remove weekend events, double all points). I can see the benefit of the latter part - the doubling all points - but removing the weekend events will only do harm. Pass.

4) And let GW1 become the home of farmers once more. "Exodus" or not, pass.

5) It would take too many resources to make "Unreal Tournament AI" for GW PvP, quite simply because it's much harder due to how different the systems are. Not a bad idea, perhaps the best here, but unfeasible.

Now, on top of this (untied to 5 btw), I would disagree that the game will become "empty" like so many play. GW1 and GW2 are completely different games. The primary reason for GW1's "emptiness" in is two-fold, imo:

1) Community's too spread out. Reducing some of the districts will solve this the best we can. Zaishen quests attempted and do centralize groups, but it's unhelpful for those who haven't done most of the game (especially those who have not yet done the primary storyline).

2) Too few new content, which will go back to how it was - if not with more resource due to GW2 no longer being in initial development - after GW2's release.

In the end, I do see plenty of players leaving GW1 for GW2, but those are the people who are only playing GW1 to fill out their HoM and would have left long ago if GW2 was not coming. Everyone else will remain if they only get new content to play through.

And for this, the primary thing for Anet to do is not to make the game easier, but instead to expand the Live Team and, in turn, add more content to the game. Whether it be in the form of Beyond, or in the form of expansions or DLCs.

Overall, /notsigned

Perkunas · Aug 09, 2012, 06:46 PM // 18:46

First off, I play GW because I enjoy the game. The HoM is a record of my journey through the games.

I don't know, and I am sure no one knows, how many will remain in GW1. Should there be more than a 60% drop in the population, who will be around to buy those rare skinned weapons? The merchant? With the inevitable loss of buyers willing to pay "e" or "k" for those weapons, the merchant will only give 200g to 400g for them. To make up for some of this loss, is the reason I say remove loot scaling. This will help offset the loss of rare weapons buyers. Same for drop/salvage rates for the rare materials, as there will be fewer sellers.

Title chasing for GW2 items should still be a time/gold sink. The loss of a significant portion of the population will, for the most part, increase that time, for the above reasons, loss of buyers and sellers. So allow some offset, just not a flood.

TSBasilisk · Aug 09, 2012, 07:01 PM // 19:01

ANet wanted to give long-time, dedicated players a reward for their support and an incentive to move to their new product. That is the entire point of the Hall of Monuments. New players can benefit somewhat, but the lack of time spent hinders them. This is exactly how it was intended.

ANet can make a number of changes to ensure the game's economy doesn't completely crumble when the GW2 players jumps ship. But there is no reason for them to give all-bonuses-all-the-time-plus-all-holiday-items except to appease players who want to fill their HoM as fast as possible. And sorry to say this, but it's still an award for dedication to the first game, not impatience to get into the second.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Aug 09, 2012, 08:27 PM // 20:27

i've been thinking and thought about this:

why not make every event item drop at any event?
that way its not every single day, yet people can enjoy the drops at all events

Kaleban · Aug 09, 2012, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wielder Of Magic

As always its the same people that come in threads like this crying about how they want everything in the game for free.
How predictable.
People that will play GW for the love of GW won't give a shit about the titles, they will simply play for the story.
Those that DO play for titles will be dedicated enough to put some effort into them, so the title feels like an achievement.
These two groups will be the ( and already are ) majority of the GW playerbase.
The crybabies on these forums are ( thankfully ) a minority.
In the end you just want the same titles as others, but you do not want to put the same amount of time and dedication into it as others did.
So is it anything more then jealousy over our pixels combined with lazyness?
Either go play the game if you want the titles, relax if you don't care about them, or simply shut up if you just want an easy GWAMM button to press.

/not signed

As usual its always the same people who complain that everyone has to "work just as hard" or get out crowd that says no to game changes that ANet has set various precedents to already doing.

First off, my account in GW is 87 months old, and I still don't have a GWAMM because I don't care about titles. So your assumption that my suggestions come from wanting an easy street silver platter have no basis in fact.

Second, its quite apparent that the naysayers cannot read. I'm not and never did ask for titles to be handed out easier. My suggestions are based on the educated guess that once GW2 does go live there will be a significant drop in the current GW1 population. Gamers have a statistical likelihood to embrace the new, otherwise we'd all still be playing Pong. Given that the player environment will be much more barren, it alters the way the game can be played.

For example, allowing 7 heroes made it possible for many players who otherwise could not get a human group to complete many end game content they would never have seen. I remember the outcry on this forum that 7 heroes would ruin the game, its immoral, etc., etc. That players who didn't wait around for two hours in an outpost spamming LFG were getting unfair advantages over those who did it the oldschool way.

The sad thing is, so many of you naysayers sound like the really old dude yelling "you darn kids get off of my lawn!" Stuff changes, deal with it.

And what's even more pathetic is the attitude of the naysayers. The idea that players of a game have to "work for it" which means grinding and suffering through the grind just as much as you did back before the game acquired the obvious needed improvements that everyone takes for granted. If the idea is to keep GW1 alive and kicking, along with the cash shop and a healthy player base to keep money flowing in, then the design philosophy must be to make the game fun and accessible. Many who start with GW2 may buy GW1 to see what it was like and possibly get into it. If ANet listens to the pathetic "WORK HARD IN A GAME" crowd, you'd have a GW1 where half the content is unplayable without 8 dedicated players which of course won't be around because the game is unfun and people picked GW2 instead.

My suggestions make perfect sense when taken in context of the player exodus, HENCE THE TITLE! If you're too dense to realize that, well, then I guess there's nothing more I can say that will make you realize the obvious.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

And for this, the primary thing for Anet to do is not to make the game easier, but instead to expand the Live Team and, in turn, add more content to the game. Whether it be in the form of Beyond, or in the form of expansions or DLCs.

This is not going to happen and is pure wishful thinking at best. ANet has switched its focus to GW2, and given the technology difference, are unlikely to marginalize their newest cash cow to address issues with a game as old as GW1.

Face it, when they can't even get one person to make sure the weekend event gets updated once every seven days, its hard to believe they'll pull people off of development of DLC and expansions for the new game in favor of one with a near dead community.

Single player games like the Elder Scrolls solve the issue with an extremely dedicated mod community, a luxury MMOs don't have.

Its basically like triage. ANet is going to pour money into the game most likely to earn the most money, and I can all but guarantee that will be GW2.

Like I've said before, I'm not asking to make the game easier, but simply more fair. The game's environment as an MMO is incredibly dependent on a reliably stable player population, from forming groups for PvE stuff and PvP competition, to a stable in game economy. When sequels come out and large amounts of players disappear in favor of the new game (which always happens) all of those player dependent issues get thrown completely out of whack and generally contribute to a FASTER death.

Think of it this way: if one hundred players each sell 1 alcohol point on the market, then 100 alcohol points are available for sale, allowing a player to raise his rank. Now if there are only ten players each selling that same point, then there are only 10 points available, meaning that new players have to spend TEN times as long as the oldschool morons to achieve the same thing.

akelarumi · Aug 10, 2012, 12:41 AM // 00:41

first of all, I was opposing you proposal and i did read it. I never said that you where a cry baby or wanted to get your points easy. So pleasde don't generalise by saying that all nah sayers can't read. This way you are only making a fool of yourself and acting like a troll.

So nothing you said made me change my mind. if you want my reaction to your last post rewrite it in a way that you are respectfull to those who don't agree with you (and yeah even those who where disrespectfull to you, and some where and shouldn't, but an eye for an eye etc.). Cause the way you just acted was imo very disrespectfull to me and others who brought up very valid arguments. You are only attacking some people who where (wrongfully) overreacting in there judgement, but don't put me (nor yourself) on the same level.

Thank you very much.

Kaleban · Aug 10, 2012, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelarumi

Hmmmmm

I think this idea would make GW1 go dead earlier then later. The great power behind GW1 has been the titles and achievements (as far as I know nobody in the world got all titles max+50/50. So that would include the pvp-titles at max as well as the lucky/unlucky ones). The main content including elite zones can be done in 1 months if your play with realy experienced players that want to take you with them and get to that point.

And this is what gets me frustrated and annoyed because its obvious you didn't read. The whole point of the thread is to suggest changes to the game's environment and economy that are simple to enact without requiring a lot of programming effort. I bolded your above statement because its obvious you don't understand that, if players LEAVE then how does one do elite zones with "really experienced players" when there AREN'T any??

Quote:

So the interest in GW1 (beside the social interaction) is mostly title based. I have been alright (though agregated) by the way they made titles easier to make gw2 more interested for people. And even though I will be mostly playing GW2, I hope that GW1 will be activly enough to last for atleast several years and open for me to return and have fun when im bound to my crappy laptop.

So cause I strongly believe your measures are going to be counterproductive I say /notsigned

Most of the /notsigned in this thread is out of a knee-jerk reaction to prevent titles from being easier to acquire for newer players. As very few titles have any in game benefit, there is no logical reason to care about title acquisition speed. If you care about the game being fun, then it makes no sense to be aggravated by others getting titles, as this does not impact your gameplay AT ALL. And returning to GW1 for the fun factor is great, and impacted not at all by newbies with easy gotten titles.

Your "strong belief" doesn't make any sense, because like the others in this thread, you don't seem to understand simple math. Fewer players means fewer opportunities for trade, which means slower or impossible acquisition of certain titles, rare skins, miniatures, etc., etc.

The simple fact can be illustrated by a newbie who buys GW1 tomorrow attempting to get Fame and the fun experience of playing Heroes' Ascent. If no one plays HA, this is completely impossible.

And I wasn't referring to your posts until now, if people want to be rude and jerky, they can expect to reap what they sow.

**cosyfiep** · Aug 10, 2012, 04:08 AM // 04:08

yes, we can read...we just dont see the need to dumb the game down for 'fewer players' the economy has been the hole for many years now...trading with other people??? is that what this game is about??? no! its about PLAYING not trading. I have rarely traded with other players, so the smaller player base means NOTHING to me. So you wont be able to sell that uber elite gear..since none of the 'few remaining' players will have the cash for it---that part of the economy was WAAAAY out of whack for a very very long time (eg, should NEVER have been a part of it). Your suggestion will NOT help this..only hasten the end. People will play for the week it takes to get that title and never come back--how exactly is this going to help the few of us still playing? Its not, it will ONLY help the people who are trying to finish up those titles and MOVING away from guildwars to another game.

You will still be VERY able to play this game with only a few players, that was what the 7-hero update was about.

Again pvp is a totally different animal--right now even if your newbie tried HA he isnt going to get in with the elitism that is running rampant-----with less players there MIGHT be a (better) chance of this happening (with your exodus of players).

I do not see a reason to add extra drops or double/triple/quadruple weekend content so a 'few' new players can get their 50/50 and stop playing never to return again. That will NOT bring new life to the game, only quicken its END.

Winner · Aug 10, 2012, 07:30 AM // 07:30

I agree with cosyfiep in all points except pvp elitism crying, but that's what people who're not willing to try and put some effort into it do. Pvp is obviously completely different world and game than pve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Like I've said before, I'm not asking to make the game easier, but simply more fair.

No. Making the game easier is exactly what you're asking for. Why would they make titles easier to gain? What is the point of it? The game is supposed to be hard and challenging, if you're good and skilled player you'll find the way to achieve titles and victories, and if you're not good then you'll lose, same as in any other game. Also, you can use heroes in every possible pve area so there is no title that is impossible to get, it all depends on your effort, skill and love for the game. Stop being lazy.
You could use your point for any other game. Why not remove 3 enemies from pacman just because it's impossible to finish it and stay alive. Why not stop increasing speed in tetris because it gets impossible to achieve what you want (beat all the levels). Why not make things automated in starcraft to make it easier (example: press one button to have all your workers harvest minerals, or press a button to make your forces automatically micro in fights in best way possible), why not remove last hitting creeps from dota so everyone gets gold without any effort or skill, why not remove all puzzles from Limbo so game is easier, I could keep going on and on. You are supposed to show skill in a game, you have to earn your wins and rewards, not get everything the easy way. Titles are already way too easy obtainable (pve ones), there is no need to make them even easier to get.
Also, trolls, cheaters and abusers killed pvp.

Captain Bulldozer · Aug 10, 2012, 08:19 AM // 08:19

OP: Chill out. Just because a load of people diagree with you doesn't mean you have to start raging and ranting. You're accusing a lot of people of simply not reading simply because they disagree with you, yet many of them (including myself) gave reasonable counter arguments to your proposals. As you didn't seem to discuss the lion's share of them, and as you generalized them all in a rude an inappropriate way, perhaps we should conclude that it is you who didn't read those posts. Either way, none of what you said changes the fact that you are clearly over-reacting.

Now, if you want to maintain that a lower population will affect game-play, I don't really see anyone here disagreeing with you. However, when you claim that newer players won't be able to do things like Elite content without super experienced players around, you're forgetting that all of us were new once. I played my way through the entire game with H/H without asking anyone for help or really joining many parties at all. That was BEFORE 7 heroes (some of it before heroes at all). It was before PvE only skills and consumables, before there were extensive guides and builds documented all over the internet; before Youtube was filled with videos showing how to do it. Even IF all the expert players leave (and that's a big if) new people will learn the same tricks (maybe even some new ones) and be able to teach others.

Now, you're certainly right about a smaller number of sweets/alcohol/fireworks on the market to trade. That just makes it harder to be able to buy 3 certain titles, which I am perfectly ok with. Since you yourself claim to not care about titles, I don't see why you would have a problem with this either. But, even so, sweets/alcohol/fireworks can be purchased year round from various NPCs already, and also can be gained from things like the Nick dailies, so there's no need to add tons more to the game.

As for the state of PvP, it would be great if they could do something to revive it. However, there are many reasons why PvP is the way it is right now, and not all of it has to do with decreased player base. Many players who are not even planning to leave have never had any real interest in it, not liking the competitive nature. Others feel it would take far too much time to get into it, or that the rewards are not enough, or simply don't want the grief that often goes along with it. Anet introduced Codex to combat some of these issues and it was a miserable failure. Still, if the player base drops even further, who's to say that PvP won't get a resurgence? Especially if some of the more "elite" griefers leave the game, others might find it more friendly. There's no way to know for sure at this point, so again your suggestions are premature/excessive.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

if people want to be rude and jerky, they can expect to reap what they sow.

Read that quote of yours carefully.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Aug 10, 2012, 09:04 AM // 09:04

i thought i'd let this rest, but why do people "DOOM" this game here again?
and, why do people think the game itself gets easier by getting mostly user-only buffs?
maybe the titles are a lil easier to get (faster), but that wont hurt the game, as those who will leave GW cuz of GW2 (or any other games) will do so anyway, so anet gains no profit from those in GW

also, the small community we have now, have alot of "done that, not gonna do again" AND "its easy, just use this [builds]" (without understanding what the real problem is...) so teaming already is rare (i know it, cuz i've been looking for help a long time now, and got it from 1 person)

once people are done with GW, most simply dont help others, cuz they have better things to do, so breaking the community is nearly impossible, as GW2 will take away the oines who have done HoM and/or are bored in GW, so join GW2 for years, prolly

i have yet to see 1 reason good enough to not do this to a game which has only people playing who like the game (after everyone who wanted GW2 got it)

ingame market? for these sugary buffs? it wont do that much, as people make their own prices, and the majority will base on it

example for the game itself NOT getting easier
consets + powerstones = party wide buff without needing anyone, as the materials are easy to farm, and the money required is easily obtained by doing wanteds and z quests

seriously, look: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Conset
and pvx, then everything is complete (for most people)

EDIT: both are useable all year

so, anyone else who can make me believe the game gets easier with user-only buffs (except for clovers.... lol)
not talking about HoM, as people who want HoM done for GW2, will mostly do it by themselves, with these consets and pvx, most likely

Kaleban · Aug 10, 2012, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Its funny. I make a post that focuses on the totality of the environment, from titles to PvP to trading, etc. And what do people focus on? "TITLES SHOULD BE HARD FOR N00BS JUST LIKE MINE!!1"

This isn't about titles. Its about keeping a game in decline not just from age but about to suffer from sequelitis from dying relatively quickly.

Face it, what is one of the main reasons people play PvE for, especially if all they ever do is 7 Hero it? Do they really like vanquishing Pongmei Valley because its pretty and fun, or is it because they might get a rare drop? Loot motivates people.

Having said that, with the way GW has progressed over the years, ANet has seen fit to decrease loot rates making rare skins even rarer.

But even that is just one small piece of the puzzle. I think a comprehensive example might best lay out why you're all wrong!

Joe the Player buys GW today. Knowing the system a bit from the wiki, he creates eight different characters in his slots. So right off the bat there's a problem. Take miniatures for example. There are 6 birthdays that grant minis, which means a total of 48 minis available by just natural time. This assumes that the game stays live for another 7 years. Out of those 48, its possible and likely that some will be duplicates, speaking for myself I got three Thorn Devourers on my toons for their birthday presents, and I think four mini Aatxes. So without trading amongst a large and diverse player base, that's one monument that is likely to be unfinished.

Next Joe decides he wants to PvP. All the smug elitists have left to go ruin GW2 WvW lol. Unfortunately, there's no one left to PvP with, because those jerks were the only ones who did it. Everybody else is content to 7 Hero Shiro over and over again. Joe tries to get some like minded people together, but the lack of players hinders those efforts to the point where he either can't even find a guild, or has to spend several hours spamming LFG before he can get a team ready to go PvP. And then there's never an opposing team.

Moving on, Joe decides heck, let's work on his HoM then, and move into GW2 because obviously GW1 isn't going to be fixed anytime soon because so many naysayers didn't understand how basic economics worked and convinced ANet to just leave it alone. No one is trading minis so that's one monument that's probably impossible. Next is the Fellowship monument, and while trying to get enough armors, diminishing returns kicks in. Joe tries to trade, but long ago people stopped bothering with this monument. He then moves on to the Honor monument, and realizes that all the PvE statues are going to have to be acquired by himself playing with 7 Heroes, since everyone has either moved on to GW2 or already finished it. The inclination of others to help is not so great because that means less loot for them, which at this point is the only draw in 7+ year old game. Joe could try for the Sweet/Party/Drunkard statues, but without being able to buy bulk points via trading, he'd have to spend ten times as long acquiring those titles as most of the "oldschool" players did.

Good luck trying to get the Obsidian armor statue Joe, seeing as how the UWSC guilds are gone and no one really wants to invest two hours for the potential drop of one ecto in an 8 player party and a full clear. Or the Tormented Weapon statue, given the lack of DoASC guilds, and again no one wanting to invest two to three hours for a few torment gems, with the real possibility of failing with PuGs.

I am really amazed at the naivete of some people in this thread. Ask yourselves this, why do people still play Diablo 2? For many, its the high level dueling, and the attraction of the rare drops from Hell Baal. Or perhaps completing the insanely hard Uber Tristram with a goofy character build. Its certainly not for the story or scenery. While GW1 even given how old it is has a neat storyline and some stunning visuals, even this blends into the background after a moderate amount of time.

My hope is that ANet realizes this, and rather than pulling resources away from GW2 (which will never happen) instead changes a few simple things in GW1 making it more attractive to new and old players alike. Rolling back loot scaling, having event drops drop normally the entire year, and perhaps allowing a limited amount of Heroes in PvP (or even allowing people to go in with less than a full party, i.e. 1v1v1 HA dueling) would serve to invigorate both the player base and the economy, to COMPENSATE for the reduced player population that is certain to hit when GW2 goes live.

This isn't about making the game easier for new players, its about leveling the playing field so that new players have as similar a gameplay experience as exiting players.

akelarumi · Aug 10, 2012, 03:00 PM // 15:00

@Kaleban,

You just made it to my trololololo list. You ruined you big change to show you are capable of discussing things in a mature matter.
So to everyone else. please move along and pls don't feed the troll.

**cosyfiep** · Aug 10, 2012, 03:30 PM // 15:30

not being able to get the uw statue?? ...gee did it with HEROES, got my gems by doing doa with my spouse for my torment weapon as well.
Yes there will be less players, yes, your friend joe may find he winds up playing by himself more--but the game CAN be completed that way. Underworld and Fissure of Woe as well as Sorrow's Furnace can ALL be completed with heroes (even with crappy builds on said heroes). Yes, Joe will also find that he will have to (gasp) go to events and farm for sweets/party/alcohol just like everyone else who played before him did.
As for the minipets....guess what, we had to wait around for our birthdays as well.

Yes, some changes need to be addressed. Pvp is in such a state that its not worth playing NOW let alone in a few weeks. Sigils are impossible to get from the trader. Loot scaling? should have never been introduced and yes, can be done away with.

Gill Halendt · Aug 10, 2012, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Joe the Player buys GW today. Knowing the system a bit from the wiki, he creates eight different characters in his slots. So right off the bat there's a problem. Take miniatures for example. There are 6 birthdays that grant minis, which means a total of 48 minis available by just natural time. This assumes that the game stays live for another 7 years. Out of those 48, its possible and likely that some will be duplicates, speaking for myself I got three Thorn Devourers on my toons for their birthday presents, and I think four mini Aatxes. So without trading amongst a large and diverse player base, that's one monument that is likely to be unfinished.

Define "unfinished":

You either mean

- unfinished = unfinished display
- unfinished = not getting the full rewards on the HoM calculator

Case #1 = Display is considered "full" when 20 miniatures are displayed in the Monument of Devotion

Case #2 = Why bother? Joe isn't getting GW2, is he? Why is he sticking with GW1 for 7 years to get a measly ammount of miniatures if he plans to buy the sequel?!

Anyway: there are other means of acquisition. Also trading is the solution to both problems... It's not like players are going to disappear all of a sudden... and if they do, it means the game isn't played anymore and maybe it's time for Anet to just pull the plug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Next Joe decides he wants to PvP. All the smug elitists have left to go ruin GW2 WvW lol. Unfortunately, there's no one left to PvP with, because those jerks were the only ones who did it. Everybody else is content to 7 Hero Shiro over and over again. Joe tries to get some like minded people together, but the lack of players hinders those efforts to the point where he either can't even find a guild, or has to spend several hours spamming LFG before he can get a team ready to go PvP. And then there's never an opposing team.

Unfortunately, this is pretty much the current scenario already, and it has been for the last 2 years anyway. How exactly is a "double HA points" going to solve this? If there's never an opposing team, you won't be getting any points. If you implement bots, you're not PvPing anymore, so what's the point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Moving on, Joe decides heck, let's work on his HoM then, and move into GW2 because obviously GW1 isn't going to be fixed anytime soon because so many naysayers didn't understand how basic economics worked and convinced ANet to just leave it alone. No one is trading minis so that's one monument that's probably impossible. Next is the Fellowship monument, and while trying to get enough armors, diminishing returns kicks in. Joe tries to trade, but long ago people stopped bothering with this monument. He then moves on to the Honor monument, and realizes that all the PvE statues are going to have to be acquired by himself playing with 7 Heroes, since everyone has either moved on to GW2 or already finished it. The inclination of others to help is not so great because that means less loot for them, which at this point is the only draw in 7+ year old game. Joe could try for the Sweet/Party/Drunkard statues, but without being able to buy bulk points via trading, he'd have to spend ten times as long acquiring those titles as most of the "oldschool" players did.

So, you're worried about the future of GW, and all you see is trouble filling the HoM? Well, how's that a problem? GW ≠ HoM

HoM was designed as a little reward in the next game for continued devotion. People need to realize that by now they either have their HoM ready for launch, or they're late starters that need to get cracking at it if they feel like.

Option #3: they could simply do without entirely optional bonuses in the sequel.

There's no need to help "new players" catching up: they're out of time now and so is life. They're still given a possibility, but time is not the best to start now, deal with it. It's not like they're missing much, they should just skip the whole HoM part and either keep playing GW1 because it used to be a great game or point straight at its sequel.

Sure, more ways to acquire consumable points would be nice indeed. That's always been the case.

Still, it's not like doing anything in this game is going to become impossible all of a sudden with the release of the sequel. Besides, there's more in GW than just HoM, so I wouldn't be tailoring the game experience around it any further: people staying have no need (and likely no interest) to reach 50/50 if they're not getting GW2. I really don't see anyone getting GW1 now, or in a two-weeks time, just to rush for HoM rewards anyway.

That is, if it's about life in GW1 after GW2 we're talking about. HoM is likely turning irrelevant by the end of the year or so, so why bothering?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Rolling back loot scaling, having event drops drop normally the entire year, and perhaps allowing a limited amount of Heroes in PvP (or even allowing people to go in with less than a full party, i.e. 1v1v1 HA dueling) would serve to invigorate both the player base and the economy, to COMPENSATE for the reduced player population that is certain to hit when GW2 goes live.

Now this sounds better. A lot better. Your first suggestion was a lot more extreme. Just tell me again how double reputation points are going to compensate for a reduced player population? How is getting double the points related to the number of active players?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

This isn't about making the game easier for new players, its about leveling the playing field so that new players have as similar a gameplay experience as exiting players.

This is simply impossible: we played a supported game that periodically received updates, our interest was fueled by new content, new items, rebalancing and such. New player joining now are playing an old game in maintenance mode, there's no way their experience is going to be like ours. Dumbing the game will just make it boring more quickly for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

I am really amazed at the naivete of some people in this thread. Ask yourselves this, why do people still play Diablo 2? For many, its the high level dueling, and the attraction of the rare drops from Hell Baal. Or perhaps completing the insanely hard Uber Tristram with a goofy character build. Its certainly not for the story or scenery. While GW1 even given how old it is has a neat storyline and some stunning visuals, even this blends into the background after a moderate amount of time.

Your suggestion isn't doing anything to prevent this.

On the contrary, streamlining game achievements further is just going to take away any residual challenge in the game a lot sooner than anticipated. Once you got everything and accomplished everything, what's left? The stunning but dated visuals? The story? The scenery? You move to another game, you move to more productive activities, you move to GW2, but you surely don't keep playing GW1 once you're done, do you? So how is all this doing any good to a shrinking playerbase?

Existing content is fine as it is. There's only two things that will keep GW from fading away, and those are:

- New content, which isn't happening anytime soon
- Strong devotion/affection from the playerbase

Something about ease of access and playability can be done, but everything-faster-and-easier isn't the answer.

Kaleban · Aug 10, 2012, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

not being able to get the uw statue?? ...gee did it with HEROES, got my gems by doing doa with my spouse for my torment weapon as well.
Yes there will be less players, yes, your friend joe may find he winds up playing by himself more--but the game CAN be completed that way. Underworld and Fissure of Woe as well as Sorrow's Furnace can ALL be completed with heroes (even with crappy builds on said heroes). Yes, Joe will also find that he will have to (gasp) go to events and farm for sweets/party/alcohol just like everyone else who played before him did.
As for the minipets....guess what, we had to wait around for our birthdays as well.

Yes, some changes need to be addressed. Pvp is in such a state that its not worth playing NOW let alone in a few weeks. Sigils are impossible to get from the trader. Loot scaling? should have never been introduced and yes, can be done away with.

There's a difference between CAN (painful slogging) and FUN. A game should not be a difficult trudge from moment to moment, there needs to be a carrot on the end of the stick to encourage players.

If 50% of the playerbase leaves, then your example of doing DoA with your spouse becomes spurious.

As for my claims of others not reading, your comments regarding minipets and consumables bears out my statement. Example: due to duplicates and impatience, to complete my minipet monument, I had to purchase/trade for about 20 miniatures. And my account is 87 months old. If the economy and trading environment is thrown on its ear, incoming players will have nowhere NEAR the same options as I and many other oldschool players did.

As for consumable titles, yes they're not necessary, but they're a nice option for people. Especially in lieu of the more difficult statues such as UW and DoA. Again, I'm not asking for E-Z mode on acquisition, but you have to agree that at any point in Spamadan there are quite a few people spamming WTB AND WTS on consumable points. With a great reduction in the playerbase, this option for players will likely vanish, meaning that incoming players again lose out on options as compared to the oldschool crowd.

Bottom line is, GW1 is an MMO, and the focus should be multiplayer. There are simple changes that increase the size of the carrot on a stick as I've proposed (increased loot, 1v1 and 1v1v1 HA dueling options, etc.) that will help retain a playerbase to keep it multiplayer. A smaller playerbase by definition will decrease the rate at which players can acquire EVERYTHING in the game, from Fame points to cupcakes.

Right now, there is no large incentive to stick with GW1 as GW2 is coming out to supplant it. I'm sure in time ANet hopes to move everyone to the new game, and shutdown the GW1 servers. But if they hope to do so without leaving a bad taste in the mouths of all the players, simple and effective options as I've layed out could easily serve to extend the lifetime of the game.