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Tone Down AP

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Jun 10, 2010, 01:45 PM // 13:45	#1
Essence Snow Unbridled Enthusiasm! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: EST Guild: DPR	Tone Down AP I'm pretty sure most of know that Asassin's Promise is OP in PvE. It reduces the need for one to know how to play a particular class. It's pretty sad that a lot of people consider the most effective build for multiple classes to be AP. So having that in mind maybe: 1) Move AP to assasin's primary line? 2) Modify AP to only effect assasin skills? (as noted by someone in another thread) 3) Modify Ebon Sin, so only one may be out at a time? 4) Modify AP so it only recharges other skills and not itself, but reduce it's recharge? 5) Modify the E gain? There are too many options to change this skill to note. AP as it stands allows players to avoid having to utilize their profession. Somewhat like a caster form of Ursan..if you will. Thanks!~Take care and Have fun~

Jun 10, 2010, 01:51 PM // 13:51	#2
chadS Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Guild: Don't Rage [シシ] Profession: W/E	What do you want to do next? Make it so that only rits can spirit spam? People need to stop asking for things to get nerfed. Eventually, everything will be gone. Because we know anet does a awful job and buffing things.

Jun 10, 2010, 01:54 PM // 13:54	#3
Lishy Forge Runner Join Date: Jan 2008	Question about the reasons to nerf it: So what? Seriously. So what? So what if we can spam sins? So what if we "Aren't using our profession." Seriously. So what? This thread has to be a joke.

Jun 10, 2010, 01:59 PM // 13:59	#4
Essence Snow Unbridled Enthusiasm! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: EST Guild: DPR	Looks like some are very defensive bout their fav builds...lol

Jun 10, 2010, 02:30 PM // 14:30	#5
Lishy Forge Runner Join Date: Jan 2008	Nah, I don't even play sin or mes. But I still acknowledge that the reasons to nerf AP is ridiculously stupid and just takes the fun out of the game.

Jun 10, 2010, 02:34 PM // 14:34	#6
sthpaw Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Australia, Sydney Guild: Overclockers Australia [OCAU] Profession: W/	I agree, its so people can actually play their chosen profession, hmmmm sounds a bit like ursan.

Jun 10, 2010, 02:55 PM // 14:55	#7
IronSheik Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom] Profession: N/	Nah, just remove all PvE skills from game. If not, this sounds fine too.

Jun 10, 2010, 03:19 PM // 15:19	#8
McMullen Krytan Explorer Join Date: Oct 2005 Profession: R/W	A lot of things in PvE need changing to up the difficulty.. as it stands a gorilla chewing a keyboard could probably beat the best part of PvE with the right build. I'm all for an overall balance of PvE but it's not likely to happen.

Old

Jun 10, 2010, 03:30 PM // 15:30

#9

Xenomortis

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Join Date: May 2008

Location: UK

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Originally Posted by Essence Snow

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1) Move AP to assasin's primary line?

With no other modifications, this would nearly kill the skill. Assassin's have no reason to use it and the duration is only 5 seconds making timing its use all the more crucial and difficult in harder areas.
If this is done, fix the duration to 10 seconds and only make the energy gain depend on the attribute rank. I see no reason for this though since it means you don't need to sink as many attribute points into an otherwise useless line as before (unless you really need the energy).

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Originally Posted by Essence Snow

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2) Modify AP to only effect assasin skills? (as noted by someone in another thread)

This would also kill the skill. The commonly used assassin skills simply do not have long recharges and shadow steps are not important in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

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3) Modify Ebon Sin, so only one may be out at a time?

Modify it so each person can only have one Sin out at a time. Not sure how necessary that is since only Mesmers really go for sin spam and nerfing that will only make them cry. When other professions get loads of sins out it's simply because they've already won the fight.

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Originally Posted by Essence Snow

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4) Modify AP so it only recharges other skills and not itself, but reduce it's recharge?

Perhaps. Adding a "skill is disabled for 10-20 seconds" clause might do something without killing it.

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Originally Posted by Essence Snow

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5) Modify the E gain?

Really the only immediately sensible thing you can do. Doing this will hurt pretty much all the casters trying to spam (yes, even Necromancers will feel something) but it's still going to be fairly minor.

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Originally Posted by Essence Snow

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There are too many options to change this skill to note. AP as it stands allows players to avoid having to utilize their profession. Somewhat like a caster form of Ursan..if you will.

Not quite.
Assassin's Promise as it stands, is fine (well, ish). Dedicating an elite to recharge your powerful non-elites with long recharges is I think, fine - at least in PvE.
The problem arises from the fact that just under 3 years ago, ANet pushed in 50 powerful skills into PvE that can be used by any profession. Some of these rival elites in their power and function whilst not being elite themselves and you can equip three of them. This is were the problem lies, not with AP.

Of course, if you nerf AP then people will simply try to use other recharge reducing skills.
Mesmers might try Mantra of Recovery, Rits might go with Ghostly Haste but I imagine most will switch to X/R for Serpent's Quickness or perhaps Oath Shot.

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Jun 10, 2010, 03:31 PM // 15:31	#10
Morphy Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: The Netherlands Guild: Not going to keep up with that anymore Profession: R/	Who cares. PvE is beyond repair.

Jun 10, 2010, 03:35 PM // 15:35	#11
SkekSister Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brighton UK	Comparing AP to Ursan is ridiculous. You don't see teams of AP using secondary assassins tearing their way through DoA & UW. AP is the least of this game's problems. Dev time would be much better spent elsewhere.

Jun 10, 2010, 03:43 PM // 15:43	#12
Benderama Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: UK Guild: [Rage] Profession: Rt/	sorry what? i haven't been using AP because i do what i want in GW. really, doesn't it just give like 17 energy on kill if the hex is still there? plus it's an elite, you heard of siphon spirit? considering you can get 3 spirits free of charge and get 14 energy from each one this isn't that OP. kinda like saying energy storage is OP. sorry if i'm not seeing the whole thing but it isn't in serious need of a nerf right now, paragons still need a helping buff.

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Jun 10, 2010, 03:47 PM // 15:47

#13

Xenomortis

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Originally Posted by Benderama

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sorry what? i haven't been using AP because i do what i want in GW. really, doesn't it just give like 17 energy on kill if the hex is still there? plus it's an elite, you heard of siphon spirit? considering you can get 3 spirits free of charge and get 14 energy from each one this isn't that OP. kinda like saying energy storage is OP. sorry if i'm not seeing the whole thing but it isn't in serious need of a nerf right now, paragons still need a helping buff.

Perhaps you should check a skill's description before posting in a thread regarding it.
Let me help you:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars on Assassin's Promise

Elite Hex Spell. For 5...13...15 seconds, if target foe dies, you gain 5...17...20 Energy and all your skills are recharged.

Emphasis mine.

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Jun 10, 2010, 04:06 PM // 16:06	#14
Masmar Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2008 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland Guild: We Gat Dis [HRUU] Profession: E/	Why don't we just remove secondary professions and all run single prof builds, cause that's what's meant to be done! wait...

Jun 10, 2010, 04:22 PM // 16:22	#15
Lanier Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2010 Guild: [Pink] Profession: P/	Im really surprised there is so much resistence to nerfing AP. I mean it is kinda common knowledge that AP is one of the most overpowered skills in PvE. I have been advocating for awhile now for it to be nerfed like option 2 in the OP. This way, Assassin's promise would still function in the same way for sins, allowing them to use a longer recharging skill chain in PvE, but it would not be abuseable by other professions.

Jun 10, 2010, 04:26 PM // 16:26	#16
Cuilan Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2008 Profession: Me/	Assassins don't have any real use for Assassin's Promise in PvE. They have fast recharging attacks and energy management. The original poster I don't think has anything against necromancers MoP nuking. Last edited by Cuilan; Jun 10, 2010 at 04:34 PM // 16:34..

Jun 10, 2010, 04:27 PM // 16:27	#17
jazilla Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2006 Guild: Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk] Profession: E/Me	lolz. i can name you 20 other elites that need reworking before AP. Buff the Paragon or make splits for it? rework the ranger spirits in PvE?

Jun 10, 2010, 04:34 PM // 16:34	#18
Shayne Hawke Departed from Tyria Join Date: May 2007 Guild: Clan Dethryche [dth] Profession: R/	There's no point in the game even being divided into professions when there are builds that don't require any strong investment in the primary attributes or features of your class. Functional builds that can be copied from one class and used on every other class with little variation in skills and results should not have power that is significantly superior than a decent build on any class that is focused on doing something with their primary. Assassin's Promise caller builds and SoS spam builds need to be hit hard, or be made more exclusive to the profession that they originate from. Solution 1 might totally kill it. Solution 5 kills it for non-caster professions, because the other ones probably can find extra energy management from somewhere else. I don't see EVAS as the problem, so solution 3 wouldn't be suitable. Solution 2 would likely kill the skill, as there aren't enough useful skills with a long enough recharge for this to used. If assassins wanted to recharge their attacks on demand, they'd use Flourish instead. Solution 4 is the only one of those that I see being reasonable, but even then, I wouldn't need to see the recharge lowered.

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Jun 10, 2010, 04:42 PM // 16:42

#19

tcratty

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Join Date: Aug 2008

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Originally Posted by SkekSister

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Comparing AP to Ursan is ridiculous. You don't see teams of AP using secondary assassins tearing their way through DoA & UW. AP is the least of this game's problems. Dev time would be much better spent elsewhere.

this says it the best

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Jun 10, 2010, 04:48 PM // 16:48

#20

Lanier

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Join Date: Jan 2010

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Assassins don't have any real use for Assassin's Promise in PvE. They have fast recharging attacks and energy management.

It would still have its uses for sins. There are many powerful sin attack skills with 8-12 second recharges that arnt used because of those recharges. I have an AP build for my sin like this.

Quote:

lolz. i can name you 20 other elites that need reworking before AP. Buff the Paragon or make splits for it? rework the ranger spirits in PvE?

Sure you can name a bunch of other skills that need buffing but when it comes to nerfing skills, AP is one of those that severely needs a nerf.

I really think that option 2 is the best for the skill. True it would significantly reduce the usefullness of AP but the skill would still be useful for certain Assassin attacks skills/chains.

And really, at this point, I dont care if AP gets nuked. Its better dead than it is in its current state.

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