Curse

Brett Kuntz · Mar 04, 2005, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Am I the only crazy person who found the gem system lightyears ahead of any other skill aquiring system man could think of? Even the cool factor of being able to use 2 additional skills for 10 minutes was genious, though I'm guessing it was removed due to the fact it'd make balancing ever more of a nightmare. Since the inclusion of the stupid capture/signet method, skill finding took a nose dive on the fun factor.

Mar 04, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

heh E3 was like Christmas, gems galore

But yea, the system had some obvious pitfalls coming for it.

Ensign · Mar 04, 2005, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Just ignore the capture signet method.

What you have now is skill trainers and rings - rings effectively being a gem of whatever you want at no cost of skill points. It's a step in the right direction, they just have to actually finish going down that path.

Peace,
-CxE

Brett Kuntz · Mar 04, 2005, 02:25 AM // 02:25

If they made ring's actually drop, like 2 per boss, then I could see this new system working, though not as good as the uber gem system. But out of oh 12? days of capture system, I've obtained a whopping 2 rings. On top of that, most skills can just be bought at an npc. The old skill trader dudes were pro, could get money for skill gems you didn't want or buy some you hadn't found. Before killing a boss was fun, you had gems to look forward to. Now killing them is...so much less.

Aladdar · Mar 04, 2005, 01:42 PM // 13:42

yeah, the signet of capture is horrible. I never use it.

I would prefer to see the bosses have the ability to drop a few things when they die: a broken ring, a skill stone, a perfect ring, or a ruinied ring.

A ruined ring is only that, just a gold ring and nothing else, however a skill stone can be crafted into this ring.

A perfect skill ring is one that is readily equipable. (Maybe you have to train to use the skill, but nothing else is required.) These would be rare.

A skill stone would be crafted into a ruined ring to make a perfect ring.

A broken ring could be repaired by a ring crafter.

IMO, the rings themselves would not be class specific, but the skill stones obviously would. I don't have much hope of getting this implemented, but I think it would be the best of both worlds.

BlackArrow · Mar 04, 2005, 02:16 PM // 14:16

I have to disagree. I did like the gem system but I find this way much better for finding skills. In this system I can at least choose the skills I want and get good skills by exploring to a certain trainer. With the skill gem way you had to depend on drops fomr monsters that were random. In E3 I only found a few gems from my own class while I got a pile from other classes. The rare gems were impossible to buy from the skill gem trader and were extremely inflated in price when buying from other players. The non-rare ones couldn't be sold since the skill gem trader would just reject your gem is he/she had too many.

Sacred did basically the same thing and that was one minor gripe the reviewer (from PC Gamer) had with it. That system was more built for it though. (less skills per class and you could level up skills by finding more skill charms).

I am not saying this system is perfect, but I have many less problems with it that the old way. I don't even mind the SoC. I like the idea of having to track down a monster to capture it's skill, but I wouoldn't be dissappointed if it was taken out. I do prefer knowing where to get skills than having to depend on drops for them.

Ensign, you said

Quote:

It's a step in the right direction, they just have to actually finish going down that path.

Where do you think the current system has to go before it's complete?

Klael · Mar 04, 2005, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Well, except that your inventory would be so cluttered with equipment, items and gems that you'll go crazy.

Aladdar · Mar 04, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

I don't think they should do away with the trainers, I'd just rather not have to waste a skill slot on SoC. It would still work similar, I have to find a boss who is using the skills that I want and hope that he drops something I need. The inventory part could be fixed just by making rings stackable and creating account storage or bank storage where I could drop the gems I want to hold onto.

Cleocatra · Mar 04, 2005, 03:57 PM // 15:57

The SoC system is fine; the reason no one uses it is because most of the bosses either use the same exact skills that are found at the trainer or use the same exact skills that are used by every other boss of that primary.

Want people to use SoC more? Make different bosses use different skills, and make bosses use skills that aren't already found at the trainer. Problem solved.

Cicciro · Mar 04, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

SoC is not fine!
SoC is grind, grind, grind!

Barkam · Mar 04, 2005, 05:16 PM // 17:16

hahaha

Quote:

SoC is not fine!
SoC is grind, grind, grind!

I don't think so. Since we can keep track of which boss has what(due to fansites), actually limits the grind since we know where to exactly find that skill from that boss. All you gotta do is go to a fansite, check which boss has it and go to that mob. The way GW is right now you can just run and ignore all the mobs on the way to that boss, kill the boss' friends and you got your skill. I think this is a lot less grind than that of trying to find that charm and that ring.

FrogDevourer · Mar 04, 2005, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleocatra

The SoC system is fine;

Play a monk and let me know how many skills you've been able to capture, and how many players died in the process.

The whole SoC system is wobbly (targetting, timing, skill slot...). Is it supposed to provide some kind of challenge or flavour? As a result the most reliable source of skills is trading+ring. Personally I'd like to see more trainer NPCs (preferably hidden) as well as charms given as quest rewards. Such skills would be common in the PvE community for PvP players to have an easy access to these reward skills.

If I had to fix the SoC system, I'd propose something like this.
- SoC = special skill that doesn't require an attribute point and that is always available (optionally 9th skill for PvE only)
- activate it on a boss to open a pop up capture window
- the window remains open for 30s
- as soon as the boss uses a skill, the corresponding skill icon is added into the capture window (up to 5 different icons)
- click on a skill icon and you can learn it (you spend a spare skill point in the process)
- each skill icon wears off after 10s
- once the boss dies, you have an additional 10s to capture a skill then the window is closed

EDIT: Rings still do not burn a skill point, right ? This should be fixed as well.

Brett Kuntz · Mar 04, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Rare gem's weren't hard to obtain, you could sell non-needed rare's for hundreds of gold to a trader and buy the one's you wanted. It was more exciting then standing still letting a boss wack you with a low % chance of it using a decent skill, hitting a single hotkey when it does, then just teleporting out of the map once you've got it. Atleast with the gem system you had to kill the boss and hope that some of the 4 gems that dropped had your name on it.

efiloN · Mar 04, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Yeah the old system was great. I never use the capture signets in this new system.

I really hope they check it over again, maybe some hybrid of the two systems or an improved gem system.

Barkam · Mar 04, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

It was more exciting then standing still letting a boss wack you with a low % chance of it using a decent skill, hitting a single hotkey when it does, then just teleporting out of the map once you've got it.

My goal is just there to attain that skill. Once I acquire it, I am out and gonna go do something else. Wham Bam, I am done and I don't need to try again to get my skill. Less grind is always good in my book.

Quote:

Atleast with the gem system you had to kill the boss and hope that some of the 4 gems that dropped had your name on it

By the sounds of it you like to grind and test your luck. I don't like to do that and A.net seems to agree with me with their mantra of "skill over time spent." That's the reason I am playing this game and not WoW. No BS of preparing to get ready to fight.

Dragonne · Mar 04, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

The thing I find most annoying is that I can find most skills on the NON-BOSS enemies and barely anything of any use on the bosses. The distribution of skills and the skills that bosses use needs tweaked... massively.

The fact that the SoC also takes up a skill slot is what ruins the whole SoC system. Bring back the 9th slot for SoC and maybe res signet only and we have a much better system.

Barkam · Mar 04, 2005, 06:40 PM // 18:40

In PvE losing a slot isn't a big deal. I think it gives the game the added challenge. Anyways it's not like you need all slots for PvE. In PvE i only really use 4 skills, the rest are all gravy.

Quote:

The term 'mob' is already plural people. A single mob is a single GROUP of creatures, not just a single creature. Learn your english grammar please.

BTW for your information, the term 'mob' in the gaming community refers to a AI 'mobile' which is another term for NPC. It all started in MUDs. Learn your context please.

Greentongue · Mar 04, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

I've heard that if you return to a specific Boss, you can capture a skill that you don't already have. Even if he doesn't use it. Basicly pealing the onion.

If they have to keep the SoC grind system, at least that is a help.

Brett Kuntz · Mar 04, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkam

My goal is just there to attain that skill. Once I acquire it, I am out and gonna go do something else. Wham Bam, I am done and I don't need to try again to get my skill. Less grind is always good in my book.

By the sounds of it you like to grind and test your luck. I don't like to do that and A.net seems to agree with me with their mantra of "skill over time spent." That's the reason I am playing this game and not WoW. No BS of preparing to get ready to fight.

No one is more anti-grind then me, just check about every topic I've made about the PvE grind in GW to PvP. Never once did I think the gem system was grind, because it simply wasn't. Back in E3 when bosses were actually tough and worth fighting, the gem system rewarded teamwork and player skill. Now the new SoC system is 100% pure grind. It rewards gold/skills to time played rather then player skill or teamwork. Anyone and their mother can write a bot to capture skills from bosses because it actually takes absolutely no AI, just run to boss and hit hotkey, tp out, repeat. You state that this isn't grind, however my friend, you are terribly mistaken, it's about as grind as grind gets.

Gem > Capture

Can't argue different.

Barkam · Mar 04, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Ok, I don't understand how going to a known mob (you don't have to kill) in a known place that has the skill you want more grind than having to kill a mob that MIGHT drop the skill you want, which MIGHT have your name on it? I am trully befuddled.

Edit: Also Bots are only valueble when time is a very significant factor. As you mentioned that it requires no AI and you can get it done so fast, there is no point in botting. As for Gems goes, you need to keep trying till you find that gem that you want. Trying takes time and this is where bots will difintely help them.