Curse

MOOMANiBE · Apr 09, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55

An Idea: what if when you said to tydus "I want to go to the academy", you were taken to a "The Academy" Outpost similar to the mission outposts (perhaps even a shield on the map?) which would allow you to form your own groups for the PvP and following mission? The 'lore keeper' (drill seargant?

) could tell you, perhaps, that the Trainees have been asked to form groups for their first test/assignment or something like that. It would take out the annoying random groups for the academy AND give players experience in mission outposts.

Tuon · Apr 09, 2005, 11:56 PM // 23:56

I like it because I dislike it so much lol. Dunno if that makes any sense. It's a good change. Really makes me want the 8 size parties, real missions, real skills etc

DarkWasp · Apr 10, 2005, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Hey i heard it has great sight seeing though! I could hang around anywere with a nice landscape.

Vanila~NBK~ · Apr 10, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

I think that Pre-Searing was mostly to show off the landscape, imagination, of the game makers. And from what i have read, i was thinking that there wont be any Pre-Searing when the full version comes out. I got the impression that it was just gonna be a BWE thing. Am i off base there?

Marksmann · Apr 10, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

The academy is certainly an area that could change a bit, too. I remember the shock of entering, stumbling my way through, and then being disgorged into the post-searing Ascalon with no real clue about what I'd just done. And then realizing that I couldn't go back to finish any of the uncompleted quests that I still had on my seriously under-experienced level 3 character. I was chagrined. I have a friend that went thru the same experience, hadn't assigned any of his attained attribute points before entering the academy, and so spent HOURS trying to anemically battle his way through it, suffering endless verbal abuse by the "drill instructor," before finally, with luck, emerging victorious into post-searing Ascalon. It's a good thing he's an ex-Marine, or he'd have never suffered the D.I.'s abuse long enough to get through it. So I'm hoping the Academy experience will be nerfed a bit. Maybe only allowing level 5's and above to enter. And make it clearer that if you ain't done in Disneyland yet, maybe you better go back and finish up first, before exiting the park.

Loviatar · Apr 10, 2005, 12:30 AM // 00:30

my group got wiped out and continued on to the cave mission

where something came out of the blue killing mr (ranger level 6 ) with 1 hit instantly

the npc warrior then went on and finished the cave going past me 4 times and then th cutscene played and poof there i was

Quote:

Vanila~NBK~
Quiet Traveler

And from what i have read, i was thinking that there wont be any Pre-Searing when the full version comes out. I got the impression that it was just gonna be a BWE thing. Am i off base there?

and yes you are off base

they did not go to that much effort in pre sear to throw it away

besides they have put much more into it since last time so yes they will keep it

Tuon · Apr 10, 2005, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marksmann

I have a friend that went thru the same experience, hadn't assigned any of his attained attribute points before entering the academy, and so spent HOURS trying to anemically battle his way through it, suffering endless verbal abuse by the "drill instructor," before finally, with luck, emerging victorious into post-searing Ascalon. It's a good thing he's an ex-Marine, or he'd have never suffered the D.I.'s abuse long enough to get through it. So I'm hoping the Academy experience will be nerfed a bit. Maybe only allowing level 5's and above to enter. And make it clearer that if you ain't done in Disneyland yet, maybe you better go back and finish up first, before exiting the park.

loooooolllll

Sin · Apr 10, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

I can't wait for the game to be finished so people can play and stop looking at whats wrong for new players from their informed, experienced, and knowledgeable position in what's probably not gonna be identical at release to what they've seen.

Considering pre-searing was introduced 2 or 3 BWE's ago and Alpha/Beta testers don't make good noobs because they are too informed, it would appear suggestions from real noobs after the next BWE and release of the game will be far more accurate if one is truly looking at the effectiveness of pre-searing Ascalon as a training ground.

I tend to think the people that originated and developed this game over 3+ years have a pretty good idea what they're doing. Otherwise me thinks we would be posting on the WOW boards

Finis.

Marksmann · Apr 10, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12

I agree, Sin; I can't wait for the game to be "finished," so we can play, either. But I think that having alpha/beta testers submit observations on game play, is the purpose of having the beta test period. I really sympathize with how the developers must feel after they allow folks to play with what's taken them years to create, just to have a bunch of "noobs" trample all over it and then make seemingly unrealistic demands on how to "fix" their baby. Gaile Gray and others have said that they welcome suggestions, as have been made in the "Suggestions" thread, but it can't be easy for them. That's why it's important to consider our words carefully, and honestly try to see it all through the eyes of a "noob," (which has never been hard for me, since I'll STILL be a GW newbie months from now.) Suggestions made this way will help the devs come closer to presenting a finished game come the 28th, and that's what we all want.

BlackArrow · Apr 10, 2005, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Is there anyone who started playing GW on the BWE when they introduced pre-searing Ascalon? I'd like to get the opinion of someone who went through that area before playing any part of seared Ascalon.

thaumaturge · Apr 10, 2005, 01:38 AM // 01:38

As a new player to the bwe in march I didn't mind the pre-searing area. For one it introduces the game softly and it looks fantastic.I spent the majority of time playing alone in this area, it was one of the few areas where you could do so without dying every 2 seconds until I got further on. I enjoyed the quests and enjoyed the non-linearity of being able to chose what I wanted. I was in no real rush to go to the academy but after I'd seen all there was to see and realised that I wasn't getting hardly any XP I went. I enjoyed the co-op levels in the post searing too, and joined with groups more there too. However I would have liked more pre-searing, just a choice to stay and do more quests in the lovely area that it was.

Sin · Apr 10, 2005, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Marksmann thanks for understanding what I meant. I agree and think we are all "noobs" until it's released.

I am sure you realized what I meant in regard to how the past experience and information that Alpha/Beta testers have is not ignorable. Certainly the best efforts are made, admirable they are and should be applauded. Not to say that this is not just an emulator as it isn't the same as the real deal--a new player. The pre-conceived factual and other knowledge does influence, especially something that has gone on as long as GuildWars for most of these testers.

If letting go of what you know were reasonably simple there would no need for alpha/beta testers of any software, the programmers and developers could test it themselves (No BWEs?

) Even quantum theory has shown the impossibility of separating the observer from the observed, how much more difficult would that be for the tester trying to be the zero knowledge never played before new player? I am not suggesting a wrong or right anything, merely suggesting these types of threads may be more a venting of frustration over not being able to just play the finished game right now especially considering the next BWE is a few days away, let alone the release.

I am sure too that many testers made suggestions and that those probably even led up to there being a pre-searing Ascalon, however some components of those suggestions may have not been implemented as or when the tester(s) had hoped, and the clock might appear to be "ticking."

To all the Alpha/Beta testers thank you for all you've done, many of you may have made some sacrifices to make yourselves available to play and report or whathaveyou. And you all have to keep quite a bit to yourselves, which can be very hard, luckily there are quite a few of you so at least you can talk to each other somewhat. It can be a grueling task, no question. Testers are one of the many groups of "unsung heroes" who need more recognition for what they go through--and if not for the nature of their job being almost mysterious in it's details becuase of the confidtentiality in its nature--I am sure many would show them great appreciation.

My interjection is merely one of timing and how it affects accuracy and reasonable use of this kind of energy, also looking at the new eyes peering into the forums with the game around the corner. Consideration in making the effort to forsee the many interests and factors that can be affected.

Acan Vishnu · Apr 10, 2005, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Well, I've personally played in every event since E34E, but this last beta I took a buddy of mine from Pre-Searing up through Lion's Arch with a new character I had made, so I'll just relate what he said and what happened.

He really like GW experienced (visuals, gameplay, etc) but as far as skills, attributes, etc. he really had to rely on me explaining what was up, It didn't help either that he is not a MMO'er at all, but really in the case of setting up a tutorial I think such a fresh perspective would be good... But personally I do believe that the biggest thing was a lack of a manual for the game. I really think that would clear up a majority of the problems.

Sin · Apr 10, 2005, 01:51 AM // 01:51

One minor consideration...

Maybe it lacks explanation of attributes and such to encourage dialogue between the more experienced and less experienced players? One more nice break from the standard rpg would be to design in a way to disintegrate the "noob" v "gosu" class struggle.

Just a maybe

Dr Wu · Apr 10, 2005, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

I think it's more of a layered approach. First they make sure you become familiar with the game's interface in the pre-searing tutorial - learn how to use skills, how to level up, how to spend attribute points, etcetera.

The March BWE was my introduction to GW after playing UO for many years. I found the tutorial area very helpfull. It allowed me to try out various builds, which I could create and delete ad infinitum. It gave me time to get used to the UI, keyboard movements and set up macros. My time was well spent. I took 1 char to the academy to see what it was like on the 'other side', and got a good insight of the missions to come.
I will definately take all my chars up to lvl 5 before going to the academy.
I know the serious gaming starts once you arrive at the academy, but to me the pre-seared Ascalon is a good starting area.

Dr Wu

Marksmann · Apr 10, 2005, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acan Vishnu

Well, I've personally played in every event since E34E, but this last beta I took a buddy of mine from Pre-Searing up through Lion's Arch with a new character I had made, so I'll just relate what he said and what happened.

He really like GW experienced (visuals, gameplay, etc) but as far as skills, attributes, etc. he really had to rely on me explaining what was up, It didn't help either that he is not a MMO'er at all, but really in the case of setting up a tutorial I think such a fresh perspective would be good... But personally I do believe that the biggest thing was a lack of a manual for the game. I really think that would clear up a majority of the problems.

I know that the manual that will be included with the final release will HAVE to be better than the groping along & "On-the-Game-Training" that most of us have used to figure things out in GW. A lot of folks can take to this like ducks to water, but many do better with an "owner's manual" to refer to. I know that would have helped my friend thru his sticking point that I referred to in an earlier post. And that would also help with what you brought up, Sin, with the "noob" vs. "gosu" class struggle. Here's a noob query for you, What does "gosu" stand for? LoL. I know that many of the folks posting on here would enjoy the chance to help other, less experienced players benefit from what they've been through. I enjoyed "escorting" a group of first time players in pre-sear Ascalon last month, and hope to do more of that again. That's one way to eliminate the class struggle. And thanks to the game design, it's fun to do. I hope to see some of you more experienced players in the game, so that we can team up for a little adventuring and you can teach me some "stuff." I've got a lot to learn.

Wrath of m0o · Apr 10, 2005, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Same as Dr.Wu March BWE was my 1st venture into Guild Wars, 1st venture into a orpg also. Although having some experience in highschool playing dungeons and dragons. Being born in 1970 i grew up with games like pong, asteroids, Zelda, kid Icarus, atari, colecovision, commd64, nintendo, sega, playstation, finaly getting a 486dx that pushed me out of console games and into command and conquer, Quake wich turned into Team fortress 2 Fort, Halflife, counterstrike, Starcraft. Although never taking a liking to diablo, the click to swing became repetitious and i found myself longing back to the FPS games.
Guild Wars is the 1st time ive been drawn to a RPG because it combines RPG with FPS and 3rd person. Even though the 1st 3 days i was playing it was kind of hard to understand, A. game isnt out yet B. Had no instructions C. Trying to comprehend RPG's again (wish i had my Fiend Folio from 1978) I can see getting into the grove for some players will be challenging at 1st. Upon creating a character and entering Ascalon (what i like to call the sanctuary, you cant get hurt and you cant hurt anyone either, well mabe someones feelings) you start meeting people from all over. Some with game experience, others like myself with no-clue.
Ascalon is the games tutorial, you learn how to move, talk to others, learn your away around town. Right from Ascalon you can start quests, i opted to ask for a helping hand, someone was right there with an invitation to a group. Now i had someone to talk to, someone to ask questions so he told me to follow him, good way to get a feel for your surroundings. Having absolutly no idea what was going on, i kept right behind him, taking everything in like a sponge. Now i wouldnt suggest if your starting this game to run out with some level 5-10 guys, because right from the get go you will have different intrests, you might have different classes and other players might have different objectives. After following my new guide for a few hours following him on a few quests. I found myself wanting to explore areas that he wanted to run right through, because he already knew where he was, and had already completed lowly missions i hadnt completed yet.
This is where i 1st learned how to exit a group. Then starting back from ground zero Ascalon, i decided to explore the game in my own way, Starting the low missions wich now i was getting a feel for the flow of the game. Pre-Searing Old Ascalon is Huge. Larger than any online game i have yet to encounter, and thats just the pre-searing. Way too much content to just leave old Ascalon and Venture Across the Unknown. Im the kind of player that likes to know my way through a level, before i go on to the next. Make sure im not leaving something on the table. If anything you learn a sence of survival. Even though im not a ranger i bumped into a special training ranger up at Fort Ranik,and met collectors of all kinds in hard to find areas. There are so many off the beaten paths, its impossible to learn all of old Ascalon in a merly 3 days. Unless you dont sleep, or you know where your going.

Although the game really doesnt pick up speed untill you leave Old Ascalon, there is a lot to learn from it. Playing with a group and Leaving to Join the Academy is where the real fun begins. So one cant play 3 hours and think, this is guild wars. I had such an adrennaline rush my 1st battle leaving Old Ascalon, it was absolutly undescribable. Still only knowing basic combinations we won our 1st match and went over the wall....

So in rebuttal, i belive Old Ascalon is the supreme starting place to get a feel for the camera, learn some moves, a few spells, and a lot of friends.

Marksmann · Apr 10, 2005, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Way to Go, Wrath!! Glad you got the Rush. Good luck & Good Hunting!

Hope to see you there.

cc.pyro · Apr 10, 2005, 03:43 AM // 03:43

I know this is going to sound a little blunt, but who cares what it seems like to those who have not read up on the game? They shelled out the cash and if they don't like the game because of Pre-Searing Ascalon then who really cares. It's not taking away from your gameplay experience, if anything it's improving it. ArenaNet already got the money and if the person doesn't play it they are also saving server resources. So nuts to the fools who are not informed, thats their own problem.

On a side note, I do agree that the starting parties should be more than 2. I have 5-6 friends who are going to have the game at release and we are trying to start a group or possibly a guild. I was hoping we could learn the game together as a group but the 2 limit puts a "restrictor plate" so to speak on that.

Marksmann · Apr 10, 2005, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by cc.pyro

I know this is going to sound a little blunt, but who cares what it seems like to those who have not read up on the game? They shelled out the cash and if they don't like the game because of Pre-Searing Ascalon then who really cares. It's not taking away from your gameplay experience, if anything it's improving it. ArenaNet already got the money and if the person doesn't play it they are also saving server resources. So nuts to the fools who are not informed, thats their own problem.

On a side note, I do agree that the starting parties should be more than 2. I have 5-6 friends who are going to have the game at release and we are trying to start a group or possibly a guild. I was hoping we could learn the game together as a group but the 2 limit puts a "restrictor plate" so to speak on that.

Yeah, that's blunt.

Your right, in that the starting party limit of 2 is kinda narrow, but I think the devs are thinking that since living there is so easy, that more than that would be a turkey shoot. But it would be easier to break in more friends at one time if you could group up with more. I've tried getting one or two other folks with a bit of pre-sear experience to help in guiding others about, so that when they all feel like they've got a handle on the basics, they can all go thru the Academy and then team up on the other side. Maybe things will change for the last BWE or for the final release.