Curse

Starflower · Apr 23, 2005, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Like some other posters on this board, I am a refugee from EQ. I played EQ for about 4 years, but it does get old eventually. Since then I've played some City of Heroes, some World of Warcraft, and some EQ2. All have been more or less fun (some very much "more," some very much "less"...but that's another topic), but none have been really satisfying, somehow.

When I looked into GW and saw the 8-skill limit, my first thought was "Whoa, I don't know if I can go back to that...all the new games give you access to all your skills." But I've come to realize that the 8-skill limit is what's really giving me hope about this game.

Here's the reason: In WoW/EQ2/CoH, when you go up against a mob or a situation, you have access to all your skills. That means if you can't beat it, pretty much you can't beat it. Period. Oh, you can try some little tweaks in tactics, but mostly it means "Come back later when you have more health/mana/resists, and then you'll win easily." Access to all skills=no having to think carefully about strategy.

Here's my fantasy about how GW will go: my group will enter a dungeon and be doing fine, then hit some boss and totally wipe. We'll leave, regroup, and say "OK, how do we deal with that boss next time? Which skills do we both need? OK, maybe these two will work together..." and eventually we come up with a combo that wins the encounter. I'm telling you, just imagining having to rely on my planning and ingenuity to win is bringing tears to my eyes right now. I'm all verklempt.

You who have played BWEs, does this make sense? If I get even a little of this out of GW PvE, I'll consider it money very well spent.

Starflower

worthless · Apr 23, 2005, 02:00 AM // 02:00

your fantasies are about to come true... thats exactly how it works

Raumoheru · Apr 23, 2005, 02:25 AM // 02:25

yea that pretty much sums up the PvE and PvP experiance

Garrett OneEye · Apr 23, 2005, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Hehe...during the very 1st public event (E3 for Everyone, almost 1 year ago now) there was a mission that a group of us (8 strangers) tried to tackle. Wiped? Man, we got wiped like half a dozen (or more) times during that mission. Every run through, though, our team tactics got better and better. No skill selection adjustments, just improving the concept of team co-operative play. Finally, we beat the boss at the top of the mountain...man were we giddy with our hard-won success; I mean, everyone was just overjoyed. But, there was this tunnel nearby that was just begging to be explored....

THAT battle introduced us to the concept of REAL team play, with skill strategy & team roles: dedicated healing, tanks blocking access to back row nukers, anti-hexers, etc.

It was hard, but it was just.....GLORIOUS.

I think you'll find what you are looking for here

.

Starflower · Apr 23, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by worthless

your fantasies are about to come true... thats exactly how it works

/swoons

OK, must pull self together, still have a week of work before release...must not spend the whole time staring at the blank login screen and making fangrrl posts to Guild Wars Guru...

Starflower

Sgt Allen · Apr 23, 2005, 03:09 AM // 03:09

i love guildwars for this reason....because no other game ive come across has had this and no lag, good graphics, and amazing gameplay to boot!

Weezer_Blue · Apr 23, 2005, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starflower

Like some other posters on this board, I am a refugee from EQ. I played EQ for about 4 years, but it does get old eventually. Since then I've played some City of Heroes, some World of Warcraft, and some EQ2. All have been more or less fun (some very much "more," some very much "less"...but that's another topic), but none have been really satisfying, somehow.

When I looked into GW and saw the 8-skill limit, my first thought was "Whoa, I don't know if I can go back to that...all the new games give you access to all your skills." But I've come to realize that the 8-skill limit is what's really giving me hope about this game.

Here's the reason: In WoW/EQ2/CoH, when you go up against a mob or a situation, you have access to all your skills. That means if you can't beat it, pretty much you can't beat it. Period. Oh, you can try some little tweaks in tactics, but mostly it means "Come back later when you have more health/mana/resists, and then you'll win easily." Access to all skills=no having to think carefully about strategy.

Here's my fantasy about how GW will go: my group will enter a dungeon and be doing fine, then hit some boss and totally wipe. We'll leave, regroup, and say "OK, how do we deal with that boss next time? Which skills do we both need? OK, maybe these two will work together..." and eventually we come up with a combo that wins the encounter. I'm telling you, just imagining having to rely on my planning and ingenuity to win is bringing tears to my eyes right now. I'm all verklempt.

You who have played BWEs, does this make sense? If I get even a little of this out of GW PvE, I'll consider it money very well spent.

Starflower

congrats. you have grasped the concept behind Guild Wars' skill system. of course, when you become better, you won't have to be defeated before you realize how to beat something. when you're ready, you won't need to dodge bullets... oh... crap... stupid movies... what i mean to say is, eventually you'll learn very well what works against this and that and will become a successful "build" maker. it takes time to learn what goes together, what skills synergize, and so on.

Galatea Orea · Apr 23, 2005, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starflower

Here's my fantasy about how GW will go: my group will enter a dungeon and be doing fine, then hit some boss and totally wipe. We'll leave, regroup, and say "OK, how do we deal with that boss next time? Which skills do we both need? OK, maybe these two will work together..." and eventually we come up with a combo that wins the encounter. Starflower

That pretty much sums up my experience the last couple of BWE. My guild getting wiped, going back to town and everybody saying, "I've got to redo my skill bar." Eventually, we all got it right and it was extremely rewarding.

At the same time, I've realized that Level 20 is not a magic number. You don't become invincible at that level. You still have to work at the missions, which is really exciting and promises great gameplay ahead.

Tozen · Apr 23, 2005, 05:49 AM // 05:49

I would disagree with your comment about how having a lot abilities doesn't require skill. As I mentioned in an article that I posted on another fansite a week ago, the real fun of having all of those spells available comes through twitch gaming. Anyone that has played a melee WoW character will know what I mean. I had my entire F1-F12 keys hotkeyed, my number keys hotkeyed, random letter keys hotkeyed, and my entire numpad keys hotkeyed.

I know many WoW players were never such "hotkey addicts," but man spamming all of those keys at just the right time took a lot of practice and was a lot of fun! It really made you think on your feet, because as you mentioned health and mana reserves are always such a serious concern.

Guild Wars is fun for the planning aspect of it but really can't be compared to a game like WoW because, quite frankly, the two games are totally different!

Starflower · Apr 23, 2005, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tozen

I know many WoW players were never such "hotkey addicts," but man spamming all of those keys at just the right time took a lot of practice and was a lot of fun! It really made you think on your feet, because as you mentioned health and mana reserves are always such a serious concern.

[rubs forehead and ponders a second]

Let me clarify my position by drawing a distinction between "skill" and "strategy." I'm not saying it doesn't take skill to learn to spam spells, nor am I saying it can't be a lot of fun. What I'm saying is that once you go up against Bignasty Foulboss with this spam skill and fail, you're pretty much done. You've used everything in your arsenal and there's no surprise that you can pull out and go back and win with. You mostly just have to wait until you level up or get better gear and go back. That, to me, lacks strategy and becomes quite frustrating.

I'm not planning to drop all those other games and just play GW (ok, I'm planning to drop one of them). They can be a blast to play. But I really miss being able to think about a fight, take a long hard look at my skill options, and then go back and defeat someone who mopped the floor with me.

Starflower