Curse

Stur · May 10, 2005, 07:51 PM // 19:51

I totally agree with you, but the fact remains it still goes on. The polices laid out by the gaming companies is obviously not solving the problem if anything its growing. So it is out job as a community to address the issue in an intelligent manner and offer up possible alternatives to the problem such as the experiment that SOE is trying or maybe looking at games like second life and project utopia for possible ideas. Name calling and finger pointing are for children, adults come up with solutions.

So by all means what do you think they (the gaming companies) can do different to address the problem? I personally like SOE’s solution and I’ll be following its progress very closely even though I do not play that game, because it will have deep and lasting ramifications on our community as a whole.

Ramus · May 10, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stur

I totally agree with you, but the fact remains it still goes on. The polices laid out by the gaming companies is obviously not solving the problem if anything its growing. So it is out job as a community to address the issue in an intelligent manner and offer up possible alternatives to the problem such as the experiment that SOE is trying or maybe looking at games like second life and project utopia for possible ideas. Name calling and finger pointing are for children, adults come up with solutions.

So by all means what do you think they (the gaming companies) can do different to address the problem? I personally like SOE’s solution and I’ll be following its progress very closely even though I do not play that game, because it will have deep and lasting ramifications on our community as a whole.

I also agree with SOE's position on it, "If you cant beat them, join them" and its definately not something you can beat.

ManadartheHealer · May 10, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garric

Blame capitalism.

Excellent

Acidalia · May 11, 2005, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Doubt anything can be done about this "issue".
It is in every populair mmorpg except Ragnarok Online.
Companies tell theire customers and everyone else that you are paying for the time that they took to gather the gold together.
So you are paying for the working hours and not for the in-game currency.

Axiom · May 11, 2005, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Typhoon

When you unlock an item in RP, you get unlimited use of that item in PvP. I can buy one superior rune of vigor ingame to unlock it, then go create a PvP character with 5 superior runes of vigor on his armor, for free.

The people that bother to buy this amount of stuff on eBay are just pissing their cash away. Let 'em.

Not sure if this has been stated yet, because I haven't read the whole thing, but BUYING a item doesn't unlock it. An item unlocks when it is ID'd. Not when it's salvaged, not when it's bought, when it's ID'd. So buying a Superior Rune of Vigor will not open it for you to use on the PvP server.

Pevil Lihatuh · May 11, 2005, 11:47 AM // 11:47

just to make a point here, i called no one in particular an idiot. i said i FIND it idiotic and dont understand it myself. Flames certainly were not my intention. If i offended anyone then i apologise, i was simply stating my point of view, which is what i thought this thread was about.

anyway just on the point that someone made about the EULA.. could selling an item in-game be seen as making a profit unlawfully? ... hmmm how to explain this. Like if you used a Beatles song on your website, it would be ok, but if you used a Beatles song on your video that you were selling, you could be subject to either copyright laws or royalties? Not sure if i explained that well, they were bad examples. Bah too hungry to explain things well right now lol

Inde · May 11, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

This is a point of game design more than anything else.

Sure there will always be a whee bit of selling - but buying is done usually because a person wishes to progress somewhere that ordinarily requires grinding to be done.

Bone_White_Haze · May 11, 2005, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stur

Name calling and finger pointing are for children, adults come up with solutions.

I don't believe we need a solution.

GW gold is quickly becoming valueless, the game disperses it very liberally (in excess of your needs for it). Massive stockpiles are already building up, and as the gold supply grows to infinite the demand falls to nothing--so does the ebay price. Upcoming change to shared lockerspace (allowing you to pass gold) means there will be very few new characters that don't have more than enough coin.

Items? Shared lockerspace means every new RP character you create (assuming you have an active 20, a matter of a few weeks) is twinked on creation. Again, give the game a few months, and there will be no market (or only a very small one that only takes advantage of brand new players).

The Lewt economy that exists in other games just doesn't look like it's going to work here. And I'm not sure there's a market for characters/accounts either, when anyone who purchased the game off the shelf can create a L20.

Unless the first update is just packed full of moneysinks, I don't believe we'll ever see the kind of $US$ driven economy that you see in EQ2 et. al.

All in all, I'm more impressed with the GW design every passing day. They've dodged so many issues that are a veritable plague on more traditional MMOs.

Ramus · May 11, 2005, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bone_White_Haze

All in all, I'm more impressed with the GW design every passing day. They've dodged so many issues that are a veritable plague on more traditional MMOs.

I'm not sure I understand how that works. Kill the economy and have no economy so that people do not buy things on ebay? Its not usually a good thing for a game to have no economy, if everyone has everything in a month, whats going to be the point of playing other than PVP. Theres only so far you can go in PVP with skill until it comes down to your items, just like any other online rpg.

So basically, we are further degrading the game into play with your friends and solo only. The social aspect is terrible.

Deagol · May 11, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramus

Its not usually a good thing for a game to have no economy, if everyone has everything in a month, whats going to be the point of playing other than PVP.

Guild Wars is not a usual game. The point of playing is to meet new challanges. If you have done all the PvE content, the game has excellent replay value because the professions are so different.

When you a tired of that, do something else. ArenaNet has no interest in keeping you on their servers after the content is finished by a never ending quest to "improve" your character. No monthly fee, remember?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramus

Theres only so far you can go in PVP with skill until it comes down to your items, just like any other online rpg.

"There is only so far you can go in counter-strike with skill until it comes down to your items". Guild Wars is not like "any other online rpg", it has borrowed liberaly from the FPS. And in any case, items are mostly for decoration, it is what skills you bring, how you use them, and how you work in a team that matter. There is no limit to how much that can be improved.

Stur · May 11, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bone_White_Haze

GW gold is quickly becoming valueless, the game disperses it very liberally (in excess of your needs for it). Massive stockpiles are already building up, and as the gold supply grows to infinite the demand falls to nothing--so does the ebay price.

So the whole point of this thread then, in your opinion, was just so some people could complain about a problem that does not really exist? Wow that’s something to think about huh.

Stur · May 11, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Counter-strike very much depends on your equipment or at least it did when I played it. You win matches and are rewarded with $$ that you buy better guns and "equipment" upgrades with. When I was playing everyone wanted to use that god awful sniper gun you could shoot people though walls with, (though I heard they toned that down after I left). GW just makes you play the PvE content to get the "equipment" upgrades for the PvP.

Master Elyas · May 11, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

yea... but, we arent talkin bout CS are we?

besides, in CS, when u leave a game and come back, u dont have your original weapons or money... but in GW u do... nothing alike at all

Bone_White_Haze · May 11, 2005, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stur

So the whole point of this thread then, in your opinion, was just so some people could complain about a problem that does not really exist? Wow that’s something to think about huh.

No, I think people see a problem with ebay sales all the time.

But from the way I see things developing, I don't believe it will be a problem for very long. The game's two weeks old, and the vast pile of wealth already exist. Multiplying daily.

So how long exactly do you think people will continue the traditional MMO scramble-for-coin?

Stur · May 11, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deagol

When you a tired of that, do something else. ArenaNet has no interest in keeping you on their servers after the content is finished by a never ending quest to "improve" your character. No monthly fee, remember?

So ArenaNet Does not care if they keep you playing their games after you have finished the "content" lol

That’s absurd of course they want to keep you on their servers so you will buy their expansion packs and give them more money. You are not avoiding a monthly fee, your just paying it in one big chunk every 6 months for the content upgrade.

Stur · May 11, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Elyas

yea... but, we arent talkin bout CS are we?

besides, in CS, when u leave a game and come back, u dont have your original weapons or money... but in GW u do... nothing alike at all

Actually if you read Deagols post ya for some reason we where. lol

Ramus · May 11, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stur

So ArenaNet Does not care if they keep you playing their games after you have finished the "content" lol

That’s absurd of course they want to keep you on their servers so you will buy their expansion packs and give them more money. You are not avoiding a monthly fee, your just paying it in one big chunk every 6 months for the content upgrade.

Yea, im not sure he grasp's the point of how the game works. Guild wars is using NOTHING on system resources compared to most mmorpgs. Ingenious really, they will be making more than other rpgs with expansions and costing less to the run the game.

Master Elyas · May 11, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

lol... tuche stur... tuche...

Deagol · May 11, 2005, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Ramus compared combat in Guild Wars with combat in other RPG's, I compared it in quotation marks with other FPS's, which is equaly misleading. Guild Wars is something new, your experience of how things work from other games can't be applied directly.

They don't want you to be on servers so you buy the expansion pack. They want you to have fun so you buy the expansion pack. Having fun obviously require *some* time on the server, but that is not a goal in itself.

Yes, I know the servers are cheaper to run (or have speculated so a lot in other threads). That is one way to keep the cost down. Another is not to include boring, repetive tasks just to keep people on the servers longer. Such as "leveling" being an a goal in itself. Or hunting for items needed just to make you competive.

It seems to me that a lot of you doesn't yet grasp that Guild Wars is not a (traditional) MMORPG, and all the thing you "know" from playing MMORPG's are not necessarily relevant.

Ramus · May 11, 2005, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deagol

Ramus compared combat in Guild Wars with combat in other RPG's, I compared it in quotation marks with other FPS's, which is equaly misleading. Guild Wars is something new, your experience of how things work from other games can't be applied directly.

They don't want you to be on servers so you buy the expansion pack. They want you to have fun so you buy the expansion pack. Having fun obviously require *some* time on the server, but that is not a goal in itself.

Yes, I know the servers are cheaper to run (or have speculated so a lot in other threads). That is one way to keep the cost down. Another is not to include boring, repetive tasks just to keep people on the servers longer. Such as "leveling" being an a goal in itself. Or hunting for items needed just to make you competive.

It seems to me that a lot of you doesn't yet grasp that Guild Wars is not a (traditional) MMORPG, and all the thing you "know" from playing MMORPG's are not necessarily relevant.

It seems to me you think that because we do not pay monthly fees that this somehow makes Guild Wars less of a online RPG than any other game. If you truely want to compare this to World of Warcraft, or Counter-strike, you can bet that 90% of the game has more in common with WoW than CS. They adverstised this game as the first MMORPG with no monthly payments, and now they are going to have to put there money where there mouths are and live up to that by providing features to us players who want more non-pvp content.