Curse

Odd Sock · May 12, 2005, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

It's funny how the other "group" of players who weren't "turned on" has so much hatred towards PvP'ers who have basically lost their game.

Yes Shinsei we have lost our game. What was so fun about the BWE's ? The magical 'Unlock all skills buttons' which made PvP and GvG so much fun. GW was supposed to be about PvP and now it just seems like it's a nightmare. I for one feel somewhat ripped off: the BWEs were awesome, refreshing and cost me 5$ while retail is an enduring nightmare of skill and item grinding and cost me 50$ It's not too late to save this game, all it takes is ANet getting a bucket of cold water in the face and realising that they messed up on elites and item grind and giving us the chance to unlock skills more easily.

Bring back the charm vendors, what was wring with them ? Not even rings, just charms and necklaces so that the skills remain temporary. Or if you insist on pleasing the drones who play PvE and for some reason find it fun and challenging make them their own server where every 15000th monster killed will drop 2 iron ingots and let us PvPers actually challenge each other on our PvP servers with actual real builds. Right now tombs is resumed to 2 skills: Mending and Bone Minions, why are nubs using them ? Because they cant find anything better, quite sad that ANet failed in both helping new players know whats going on and satisfying the more experienced ones with actual real builds

Master Elyas · May 12, 2005, 03:37 PM // 15:37

hey... dont diss GW... the ppl who play PvE are just as good as the ppl who play PvP... they just want to get their skills so they can do PvP... anyway, if u feel ripped off, then dont play.

chalt2 · May 12, 2005, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odd Sock

Well I have the box right in front of me and it specifically says right here, in caps mind you,'YOUR SKILL WILL BE YOUR LEGEND: you'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played...'

How will you be competitive if you don't have Zealous upgrades on your PvP warriors ? How will you be competitive if you dont have Superior Expertise or Superior Air Runes ? Can you even consider yourself worthy without Superior Vigor ? and dont get me started on elite skills. Up till now I racked 120 hours and the only reasons why I can be close to where I want to be for PvP is because I abused the Desert wreckage exploit which I grinded for about 20 hours. Even with that I dont even have all the component unlocked for all classes. ANet said GW wasnt about grind yet to be worth a little more than an onion you need to spend hours farming for your runes. Watching grass grow or watching baseball is funner than farming. So you want a promise they didn't fulfill ? read your box. The only real one they have accomplished is 'free online play' and 'release is for April 27th' and in all honesty they should have done some balancing skills and work on removing the Elite mecanism instead of an early release.

Ahh ok finally something specific to raise my awareness, you are exactly right the Box does say that and maybe that means that you should be able to have ALL the items the game has in a two week or sub 120 hour time frame I don't know. I do know this I have pushed on out to the Divinity Coast and have participated in 10 to 15 PvP matches in Ascalon and Yaks bend and so far I have done just fine with 14th level character and my meager 57 hours of game play.

I acquiesce to your greater knowledge of what YOU need to compete in PvP.

LaMort · May 12, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

This may have been brought up before, but to me it seems obvious.

This game is catering for what seems like 2 seperate groups. Those that have come up through UT and CS and similar games where the gamers classifaction of fun is one on one (or teamed) hands on PVP. The other is those that may have come through D2: LOD and EQ and similar games that enjoy spending time improving their characters and acheiving goals.

Why then have we a system where they both are interlinked? Surely ANet could make a seperate PVP ladder and a PVE one. The PVP aspect of the game being totally seperate from the PVE. Where PVPers are given everything available to chose from and can jump right in to the "slugfest" and PVE is left to enjoy the years of landscape and storyline crafting and develope their characters at the pace they wish, and eventually enter there own "slugfest" at the end.

Like I said I guess this has been answered but it just seems everyone would be happy this way.

Stur · May 12, 2005, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odd Sock

What was so fun about the BWE's ? The magical 'Unlock all skills buttons' which made PvP and GvG so much fun.

I read that and was like he is just being silly but the more I read it seems you really want a magical button. That gave me a head ache.......

If you’re reading this and your new to the game, I will make it plan and simple, if you want to log in and start pwning people with all the skill and equipment in the game available to you THIS IS NOT THE GAME FOR YOU. Get counter-strike, or that new X-box Unreal game. This game requires you to do a little work, note I say a LITTLE. But for that love of all that is holy don't come here after the fact and whine incessantly about it.... it is an RPG let me say it again, AN RPG, not a deathmatch/capture the flag game with a fantasy theme! Get over it.

butcherboy · May 12, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Wow, this thread has turned into a flame war over PvP folks wanting l33t skills vice working for them via PvE play. I guess all games have their scandals (some wait a few months before creating their own it seems) and PvP only folks are GW's. Even if PvP was the sole point of GW, you would **NEVER EVER** have all the skills you need off the bat. Some skills, like the elite skills, would need to be locked to encourage folks to actually win in ladder games. Of course, to truely go gusto with PvP there would be an extensive configuration available to turn on/off elite skills, select skills, pets, etc just to keep the non-l55t ladder guys from being rolled over by the uber-l33t I teamed with a guild just to get l55t skills playa's.

Oh darn, GW doesn't feature any of that. Wow, would that make GW a PvE oriented game? Ya think? "Oh no, PvP isn't tacked on, you start off with lvl 20." "Oh no, GW PvP isn't tacked on, it has multiple arenas that you can fight in." "Oh no, PvP isn't tacked on, that is why it is called Guild Wars, silly!" "Oh no, PvP isn't tacked on, it's got random matchups PvP in PvE." "Oh no, GW PvP isn't tacked on, why else would you get access to all the weapons, armour, etc you have in PvE in PvP?"

PvP in GW seems like a natural growth from PvE PvP arena's and hence, a bonus feature. Not a lot of "l55tness" was designed into it (CTF? Assault? Point Capturing? nope not in GW). Those who want to PvP in GW are probably still going to have to PvE for hours so they can get their dream l55t skills to wpn[sic] in PvP no matter how much complaining goes on. Unless they prove to be the numerically supperior user base for GW and then that could change or not.
Just remember, "Guild Wars is all about PvP that is why it is called Guild Wars," right?

Odd Sock · May 12, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalt2

Ahh ok finally something specific to raise my awareness, you are exactly right the Box does say that and maybe that means that you should be able to have ALL the items the game has in a two week or sub 120 hour time frame I don't know. I do know this I have pushed on out to the Divinity Coast and have participated in 10 to 15 PvP matches in Ascalon and Yaks bend and so far I have done just fine with 14th level character and my meager 57 hours of game play.

I acquiesce to your greater knowledge of what YOU need to compete in PvP.

Ok buddy now you're just talking silly. Let's make a 1 on 1, I'll make a level 20 with superior runes, any skills I want and the best item upgrades and you keep your level 14 character. You'll quickly see what color the floor is. Unless you have experience and know what you're talking about don't post any ridiculous statements like you just did. People in Ascalon and Yaks Bend arena have no clue what they are doing. When you'll play some GvG and reach the top 50, top 20 and top 10 you'll know what real PvP is, how items are crucial and how every skill that you AND the other 7 players equip is important. And by the way the skills that I want to find are the nasty ones like Barrage, Battle Rage, Flourish, Oath Shot etc... Please stop posting, with every post your credibility goes down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaMort

Where PVPers are given everything available to chose from and can jump right in to the "slugfest" and PVE is left to enjoy the years of landscape and storyline crafting and develope their characters at the pace they wish, and eventually enter there own "slugfest" at the end.

Frist of all it's not a slugfest. High end PvP is an orchestra of skill and coordination that requires acute awarness and team work. The slugfest you are referring to is that little 5 minutes you survive in Tombs with your PUG and sometimes make it to the actualy HoH where you get served by actual real teams. There is no such thing as slugfest when you know what you're doing and quite often there is very little killing but until the very end of the fight where one or two people make a false step and drag down their team. Now for years of landscape... Maybe you're right for that, Guild Wars has beautiful landscape and I'd be an idiot to say otherwise. I totally agree here, my screenshot folder is at limit with breathtaking landscapes. But in all honesty, is that enough to keep 200000 people entertained ? Now for the storyline, cmon: Charr kill Ascalon, White Mantle are bad, go to Ring of Fire and bam it's over... wow. I think Olsen Twins movies have better storylines than that and if that's enough to entertain you, why did you spend 50$ on a game when you could have bought a yoyo at the dollar store ?

You people should stop being such PvE fanboys and realise that PvE is nothing when you compare to actual RPGs like Fallout, Baldur's Gate and even Dungeon Siege. Last I heard, GW was made for PvP and right now it's failing at that

Granamyr · May 12, 2005, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Seems like it depends on what you define as your personal goal and the timeframe you give ANet to accomplish its stated goals.

If your personal goal is to amass 1.4 million in gold, I think it is reasonable to expect a certain degree of grinding to get there -- likewise if your goal is to have every elite item possible for your character.

Regarding skill being THE deciding factor, I'd give the game 3 months. I think we can all agree that equal footing will be established by that time. It seems rather unreasonable to expect the game to meet all of its goals in the first two weeks of release. Even so, if everyone is having trouble finding all of these elite items, then we're all on the same itemless ground and skill is the deciding factor.

Somewhere along the way, it was decided that a major rune (that almost nobody has) trumps skill and I still haven't seen that argument made effectively. What item-heavy team keeps winning in the tombs? Name for me this unskilled Guild that has been able to dominate the ladder because of all the runes they've farmed. Just because the potential for item unbalancing exists doesn't mean that it has already happened.

It sounds like this is the time where a skilled player can truly shine. Right now it's all about who can build the best mousetrap with a limited number of tools. I say embrace this itemless age now instead of depressing yourself with a bunch of theoretical flaws.

A skilled player should be able to overcome any item.

Sausaletus Rex · May 12, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Yet another thread about things that's turned into a PvE vs. PvP flamefest. This is an important and to many people vital issue just why is it that we seem unable to discuss things in a civil and respectul manner? Honestly, I don't know. But I do know that I'm getting sick of it. Passion is no excuse for misbehavior. Emotion is not excuse for personal attacks. Nor, will I add, are any of you designers of Guild Wars and really qualified to talk about what the goals and ideas of the designers were.