Curse

smitty-gw · May 18, 2005, 01:22 PM // 13:22

I'm a PvE level 17 w/mo.

I have been using a shield. I read Rex's positioning post.

In PvE, I'm looking for opinions on whether the area specific effect of the shield's added AL is a necessity, or might it be better to use a focus to increase energy to say 30.

The latter would allow greater use of my energy-based secondary monk skills as well as not be so dependent on adrenaline-based warrior skills.

I've invested nada in tactics and don't use any countering sword skills. I don't use stances either which, if I did, would guide me towards the shield route.

I'm pretty sure there's no right or wrong way to go here, I'm just looking for opinions.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Straegen · May 18, 2005, 01:41 PM // 13:41

PvE speaking the most effect build I have seen run for a w/mo is actually a defensive warrior build to reduce damage and using zealot's fire to kill everything around the warrior. That build is virutally indestructable.

As for me, I find that using a shield and sword so I am ad based allows me to run one perma-enchant (such as live vic) and fire off two-three heals back to back in a fight. This is usually more than enough to finish off most mobs and the fighting goes quick since dps is rather high. I have tried a few non-shield builds, but none seem as effective. Course I only know what I have tried and I am sure there are some non-shield builds out there that give my w/mo a run for the money.

smitty-gw · May 18, 2005, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Yeah, I use a similar build minus the Zealot's Fire or the smiting tree.

I went healing tree to run Mend or Live Vicariously always.

Healing tree boosts Healing Breeze nicely, which keeps me alive.

The character is doing well. I was mainly wondering if the benefit of the shield is really noticeable in lieu of stances or counter attack skills.

smitty-gw · May 18, 2005, 08:06 PM // 20:06

146 views and one reply?

Cmon everyone, somebody must have an opinion.

Warriors are commonly played.

RepinsMirg · May 18, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Well I don't really play a W/MO but I would keep the shield sence the extra energy isn't really going to matter after the fight starts due to your slow energy regen. How many times in a fight do you see your self ever with max energy?

nechronius · May 18, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

I wield a 7 defense "crude shield" that looks like a seashell with my character "Bigs McLargeHuge" because it looks cool. I don't even have the tactics level high enough to wield it properly. It requires around five, I think I have mine at 3. This character has a pet warthog tagging along named "Sweet N Sour" which gives you an idea what kind of character this is. He still does pretty well in PvE so I have little incentive to tighten him up into something better.

I like shields that look cool. There's my worthless opinion. I just thought I'd share it unlike some of the 146 others.

smitty-gw · May 19, 2005, 12:21 PM // 12:21

LOL
thanks Nechronius, that did make my morning.

P.S. Nice character name

Letos Mondlicht · May 19, 2005, 12:40 PM // 12:40

as a War/Mes i prefer more Energy ofer the shield defense (mes spells have high energy cost esp the domination spells i am using) .... more i cant tell because ive never tried a war/monk build ;-)

Red Rumm · May 19, 2005, 01:05 PM // 13:05

I dont like the current trends i see in warrior builds. There are tooo many sword/shield combos and tooo many people wanting a cool dragon sword. I thought warriors were damage dealers? Nothing beats a good hammer for dmg. If u have a good monk u have nothing to worry about. The only sword/shield combos should be W/M, and if warrior is primary i would stick with mostly warrior skills since u can only use primary proffession runes to enhance your char. Im a R/M and in the harder quests found that i had to mainly specialize in 2-3 Ranger skills to be effective leaving little attribute pts for monk skills. I always keep a res skill and will go w/smite skills in heavily populated undead areas. I leave the healing for the primary monks.

varyag · May 19, 2005, 01:43 PM // 13:43

It really depends on what situation you are going into.

I usualy carry both the shield and an energy scroll into PvE battle, and switch to the shield once I become the target. Its quite easy with the weapon sets (F1 and F2 in my case).

I was using Eruption against large groups of melee mobs in the early missions and switched to shield right after casting it.

Offtopic:

The reason why Sword/Shield is so popular for PvE at the moment is because the Sword skill line becomes availiable so early in the game - you can obtain most crucial swordsmanship skills, including Hundred Blades, by the time you reach Piken square. Conjure Flame and a Fiery Sword means a ton of pain for the enemy when you position yourself well and hit that HB.

Hammer is not best damage because of its slower hit speed, hammer skills are very rare in the early missions and good speed boosting stances are not availiable untill almost endgame. Endgame Hammers shouldn't be damage dealers either, since they are so much better at other things.

Axes tend to have good AP skills and Cyclone Axe is almost like Hundred Blades, and the hit rate is almost the same as a sword. A near max damage Axe with low skill requirement would only set you back less then 1 platinum and you can still carry a shield. Then consider all the critical hits for max damage you will be getting on enemies chasing after your monk.

Red Rumm · May 19, 2005, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Good point Varyag, I didnt know that about hammers so now im the wiser. I totally agree w/you on the axes. People shell out tons of cash for cool swords when u can get an axe w/same or better stats at very low prices. Supply and demand.

xakia · May 19, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Comparing hammers to swords...kinda difficult. My hammer hits for 75 on most encounters...90 to softies...145 crits. I can't really say that hammers are the best either. I've seen some sword swingers lay on some nasty damage as well. Matter of fact, I'm collecting all of the sword skills to play around with now. Always testing new builds...always.

Tala · May 19, 2005, 02:56 PM // 14:56

My W/Mo is still lower level (11), but I do use the Sword/Shield Combo. I believe I have an odd build compared to those talked about here.

I pretty much don't use my energy in combat at all. I have mending and live vicariously on me at all times. This prevents my energy bar from moving up at all. It's static. I pack resurrect for my hencies. For an extra healing buff I have spent points in tactics and use my healing signet.

I rely on my adrenaline based skills for damage. My motto is slow and steady. I can pretty much wear down almost any group simply because it's very hard to kill me even with everyone concentrating on me.

Now, I also tend to solo and travel with henchies. I'm not sure a party would want me along with my build. I'm very self sufficient and wouldn't waste a true healers energy, but I'm not sure they'd appreciate the slow and steady pace. Most groups I've seen want to kill everything in sight as fast as humanly possible and I really can't help them much in that regard.

So, that's my two cents.

Manderlock · May 19, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

You will have more energy, great

You will still only have 2 pips of regain, not so great.

You'll have the ability to cast abit more spells at one time, but after that you are right back to how you where with the shield. Without the added AL.

Trenchsoul · May 19, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by varyag

The reason why Sword/Shield is so popular for PvE at the moment is because the Sword skill line becomes availiable so early in the game - you can obtain most crucial swordsmanship skills, including Hundred Blades, by the time you reach Piken square. Conjure Flame and a Fiery Sword means a ton of pain for the enemy when you position yourself well and hit that HB.

I believe they nerfed hundred blades from the charr boss. He doesn't have the skill anymore.

chowdah · May 19, 2005, 05:24 PM // 17:24

My problem with shields is they seem to provide very little compared to may of the off hand items.

Why would I (for example) take a shield (the best I've seen is AL 14) instead of a off-hand item that gives +10 Eng/+20 HP (and I have seen much better). Sheilds should offer comparable AL to a helmet - currently all the sheilds in the game seem to be made of paper or cardboard.

If we could put Runes and/or other upgrades on sheilds then maybe they would be worth it - right now I just don't see it.

MisterYoda · May 19, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I am playing an alt char w/n. I always have an alternative sword/shield or sword/off-hand item just because I want to be hurting and keeping myself alive (That is why I need energy for blood spells)...I have yet to see the shield's effectiveness here (I have a armor 16 shield) and I have to say it is pretty good. I finished the ashes and galzaak (or whoever charr i need to kill) solo on lvl 12 with those gears. (Well of course I died a lot), but if u manage to defend+hurt the enemy at the same time, it is doable. To be honest though, for Ashea, i just basically run toward the ashes then died

(Thats how I finished the quest)

smitty-gw · May 19, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Manderlock and Chowdah make good opposing points.

More energy = another castable in very critical situations to stay alive like endure pain and/or sprint where I would normally not have the energy to do so. This is a probable scenario on what to do with the extra 10 energy.

I usually only run one -1 pip enchant at a time and I have a very nice +10 healing ankh with added life.

The main question is the shield's overall effectiveness.

I read Rex's positioning thread but still I don't understand.

They supposedly don't block, but add a pitiful amount of AL against front side attacks. I am also beginning to question the true effectiveness of the shield. As Chowdah said, they should be comparable to the armor AL of a helm.

The order or process by which a shield's AL is used is vital to fully evaluate a shield's value.

Obviously, using stances or skills that require a shield is a no-brainer (which by the way I don't use in this build).

Can anyone elaborate further? Where is Ensign when you need him?

Thanks again for all your replies.

Redfang · May 19, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty-gw

I've invested nada in tactics

There are plenty of shields where strength is the requistite, not tactics. So you can still use a good shield even without tactics.

Your decision all comes down to whether you want to be beat on a little less, or have more energy and healing bennies. Just do what works for your playstyle.

madog · May 19, 2005, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tala

My W/Mo is still lower level (11), but I do use the Sword/Shield Combo. I believe I have an odd build compared to those talked about here.

I pretty much don't use my energy in combat at all. I have mending and live vicariously on me at all times. This prevents my energy bar from moving up at all. It's static. I pack resurrect for my hencies. For an extra healing buff I have spent points in tactics and use my healing signet.

I rely on my adrenaline based skills for damage. My motto is slow and steady. I can pretty much wear down almost any group simply because it's very hard to kill me even with everyone concentrating on me.

Now, I also tend to solo and travel with henchies. I'm not sure a party would want me along with my build. I'm very self sufficient and wouldn't waste a true healers energy, but I'm not sure they'd appreciate the slow and steady pace. Most groups I've seen want to kill everything in sight as fast as humanly possible and I really can't help them much in that regard.

So, that's my two cents.

You might want to try an ax instead of a sword. You can use them with a sheild, and they seem to have better adrenaline skills, at least at the lower levels.

The bleed skills on the sword are nice, until you run into undead. Sword users have a disadvantage against fleshless mobs.