Curse

Khrysyl · May 22, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdwoody

The good thing about running that 13 times is I had plenty of minotaur horns to give to guildmates so they could get better gauntlets...

Every difficult task is not without reward.

NiknudStunod · May 22, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khrysyl

While it may not be grindless (that depends on your definition I guess) it certainly is a game where you only have to grind as much as you want to.

I also find it rather strange that some people have this idea that they have to have elites (some even feel they have to ahve all elites, all runes, and all enhancements) to be competitive. That is just so much nonsense! I'm sorry if that offends, but it is the truth.

Anyone, and I mean anyone, can be competitive at any level. I could be, you can be, anyone can be, so long as they compete at their level.

One of the facts of life with RPGs (and this is an RPG, a CoRPG according to A.Net) is that characters progress, some characters are higher than others and have more abilities, skills, etc. We all have the choice though, we can compete in PvP at the level we find ourselves, or we can wait until we have reached the absolute pinnacle of development and uber-skill possession before PvPing. It is the choice of the individual though, and not something imposed by A.Net

So, go out, enjoy the PvP that you can participate in today (I know I will be soon enough) and don't worry about being at the very top from day one. Only one person (or team) can be at the top, and in a competitive game, it is not likely they will be able to stay there for long. Peace.

edit: corrected spelling errors induced by dyslexic fingers, did I miss any?

No you can not be competetive at the top of the ladder unless you grind. It is a simple fact. I have already left this game and moved on. I had really high hopes for the fact devs said,"Skill over time spent". I am back playing planetside using my guild war head set and 6 months of team speak lol.

Redfang · May 22, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

There is a difference between having a viable, competitive character in a few hours and a game where you can have everything in only a few hours. No one ever promised you the latter.

Khrysyl · May 22, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiknudStunod

No you can not be competetive at the top of the ladder unless you grind. It is a simple fact. I have already left this game and moved on. I had really high hopes for the fact devs said,"Skill over time spent". I am back playing planetside using my guild war head set and 6 months of team speak lol.

Good for you! I am glad you have a game that suits your particular playstyle. All the best in Planetside!

Shadow_Avenger · May 22, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

Not another one of these threads, not another one. I can't take another one.

*curls up in bedsheets*

Exactly,

There is that old saying a GOOD WORKMAN DOESN'T BLAME HIS TOOLS.
Now if this is to be true, then ALL the people moaning about grind to get x skill are actually C**P players as they get beat and blame it on the fact the didn't have x skill.

They may have 1 thousand excuses or reasons but it doesn't matter, even basic skills used in the correct order are deadly and you don't need Elite skills to win. At Highend Guild play it is about player coordination and team work. Not what skill " I " have. There is no I in team.
It is teams working together with skills that complement each other that win, not elite skills or runes etc.

nub · May 22, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

No you can not be competetive at the top of the ladder unless you grind.

why do you HAVE to be at the top of the ladder, in order to be competitive? i'm quite sure you're not the only one without this and this elite skills, and are making do just fine being competitive and enjoying the game. and not being the l33test with the all the elites unlocked.

sybban · May 22, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

It's not a "grind" if it's optional. If you don't want it then don't get it. Do you just want some guy to sell it to you?

sama · May 22, 2005, 06:02 PM // 18:02

well...this is probably the 25th or so thread about grind in guild wars. If nothing else, the quanity of the complaints would suggest that there is an issue.

However, the arguments (on both sides) have been repetitive with no progression. It would seem the issue now isn't so much whether there is grind (there is to a large quanity of people anyway), but what each person wants to believe.

Different people have different tolerance for grind and different people had different expectations of this game. To argue who's experience is more valid is to engage in what many of gw forum users have been doing, participating in a losing debate.

To all the people concerned about the skill grinding in guild wars, change is coming soon, possibly as soon as two weeks. I don't know in what forms the change will be, but I've been told that changes will happen.

Loviatar · May 22, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sama

To all the people concerned about the skill grinding in guild wars, change is coming soon, possibly as soon as two weeks. I don't know in what forms the change will be, but I've been told that changes will happen.

would you mind passing on who told you this and a link to it so we can get an idea of how reliable the source is?

elorei · May 22, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khrysyl

Every difficult task is not without reward.

what you fail to realize is this IS NOT ABOUT DIFFICULTY. its not difficult to do the same damn thing 120 times. its not challenging to do the same damn thing 120 times. its not skill to do the same damn thing 120 times.

where is the diffuclty? sure, its difficult to sit in this chair for 10 hours straight i guess. maybe thats what you are talking about?

is it difficult to roll dice til you get double 6s 5 times in a row? hell no, its not difficult, its boring as hell.

none of us ..let me say it again: NONE OF US want it to be easy. what we want is to not have to do the exact same thing over and over and over and over and over til the right boss is there. where have i EVER asked for the skills to be handed to me?

all i have asked for is to remove the grind. the repetition.

if you think doing something 150 times makes you more skilled than someone that does it 1 time, i feel sorry for you.

Aurixis · May 22, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

I think it'd be a start if they just made it so items with colored names wouldn't have a chance at being nothing. THAT's just cruel. The only 3 yellow (potential superiors?) drops I've gotten have been nothing. The only plus is the 200+gp they're worth. But who wouldn't rather have any superior?

Some sort of PvP reward system would, in my opinion, be sufficient. The wins counter with the ability to buy or unlock runes, skills, and upgrades with these wins would be perfect (in my opinion). There just needs to be some other way to get things as a class combo with no possibility of extensive farming (ranger/mesmer).

Lazarus · May 22, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

I really must be playing the game wrong. In just under 200 hours of play, I have yet experience this "grind" stuff you guys are complaining about. So the game gets repetitive while you are trying to capture your skills. You keep trying over and over and over and over. Still no boss with the skill you want.

I think you guys should let life experience and common sense take over at this point.

"Insanity can be defined as trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results each time."

So my question is this:

Is it grind or insanity that is at the root of your problems? Have you tried doing it a different way or do you just want it your way? Remember, you cannot change the game. You can only change how you play it.

Lazarus

Khrysyl · May 22, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by elorei

none of us ..let me say it again: NONE OF US want it to be easy. what we want is to not have to do the exact same thing over and over and over and over and over til the right boss is there. where have i EVER asked for the skills to be handed to me?

None? Are you absolutely sure about that? You are willing to state with certainty that the request for a UAS button has been universally dropped by all PvP players? Because, that is not what I am hearing.

You say you have no desire for the game to be easy, and that is good. I wish (and hope) there were more like you. I don't want the game to be easy either. I also don't want the game to be split in two, which will happen just as soon as the efforts of a PvE player are made irrelevant when it comes to PvP. A UAS system would make PvE effort irrelevant, as would some other systems that have been discussed.

edit: to clarify a question

elorei · May 22, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus

I really must be playing the game wrong. In just under 200 hours of play, I have yet experience this "grind" stuff you guys are complaining about. So the game gets repetitive while you are trying to capture your skills. You keep trying over and over and over and over. Still no boss with the skill you want.

I think you guys should let life experience and common sense take over at this point.

"Insanity can be defined as trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results each time."

So my question is this:

Is it grind or insanity that is at the root of your problems? Have you tried doing it a different way or do you just want it your way? Remember, you cannot change the game. You can only change how you play it.

Lazarus

lazarus, i would love another way to do it.

the fact is though, ONE boss has the skill. that boss has a low chance to actually exist when you load the zone.

if you can tell me a way to change these facts in my favor, im all ears. i cant control what spawns. i cant give the skills to other bosses. if i want that skill (ppl seeking flourish, well of power, and ...hell if i can remember the mesmer skill also) i have to go and camp that boss spawn.

there is no other way to get that skill. no quest. no missions. no random boss that might have it so i can catch it while exploring. if i want it, i camp. and camp. and camp. can i play WITHOUT that skill? sure. can play without any heals too, but would i be a very good monk? prolly not.

apparently camping a spawn point equates to skill, listening to most of the people in this thread.

elorei · May 22, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khrysyl

None? Are you absolutely sure about that? You are willing to state with certainty that the request for a UAS button has been universally dropped by all PvP players? Because, that is not what I am hearing.

i over generalized, and i apologize. *I* dont want the uas, i want a fun way to get the skills. im not saying uas is bad, or good. i am ONLY saying that camping is bad.

taion · May 22, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Note that the general gist of the UAS suggestions was that, even if available, UAS should be restricted to characters who have progressed through much of PvP (either Ascension or beating the entire storyline), so it's impossible to skip the PvE game entirely.

And, honestly, grinding for runes and weapon upgrades is a whole lot more annoying to me than grinding for skills. At least I have a small chance of getting some good drops when hunting for an elusive elite.

Lazarus · May 22, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by elorei

lazarus, i would love another way to do it.

the fact is though, ONE boss has the skill. that boss has a low chance to actually exist when you load the zone.

if you can tell me a way to change these facts in my favor, im all ears. i cant control what spawns. i cant give the skills to other bosses. if i want that skill (ppl seeking flourish, well of power, and ...hell if i can remember the mesmer skill also) i have to go and camp that boss spawn.

there is no other way to get that skill. no quest. no missions. no random boss that might have it so i can catch it while exploring. if i want it, i camp. and camp. and camp. can i play WITHOUT that skill? sure. can play without any heals too, but would i be a very good monk? prolly not.

apparently camping a spawn point equates to skill, listening to most of the people in this thread.

So you are saying that it imposible to play the game effectively with this ONE skill?

I am sorry, but I do not agree that point of view.

Lazarus

Teh Azman · May 22, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

It's called elite for a reason...

Shadow_Avenger · May 22, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Just a little observation.
The Rune drops etc are random, but also very very very rarely do you actually get a drop that is related to you class, I would say 75% of the time it is actually for a different class.

I.E. My main is R/Me and I have unlock vigor runes lesser / greater, all elementist minor runes, most minor monk runes,most warrior minor runes. All staff upgrades, some bow upgrades, most hammer upgrades and a couple of sword upgrades. etc etc. But have not yet found one Ranger Rune.

Elite skills, hmm they are supposed to be rare elite skills, hence not every one has them, You are ment to be lucky to find them. If everybody had them they may as well just be skills like the rest. They are not hugely more powerful than other skills, if used in conjunction with other elite skills they may be, but you can only use one at a time anyway.

If you are aiming to find that one elusive upgrade then folly you, you have just created a grind for yourself. On the other hand if you are just interested in playing and not bothered what you find, then there is actually no grind at all.

ALL GAMES get boring if you over dose on them. The "Grind" is totally dependant on how you play and what you want.

Now if thats all, the to grind or not to grind is not a game design flaw or advantage, but is relative to the player themselves. Please let this be the end of a pointless debate.

taion · May 22, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

The rune drops are random. There are six primary professions. That means you should expect to get a rune for your profession around 1/6 of the time, which is about 17%. I don't think it's actually exactly this because some professions have more runes than others, and vigor runes are not profession-specific.

Elite skills are precisely not just other skills like the rest because they are strictly better than normal skills, or else do the same thing as two normal skills at the same time, or else just have an effect that's straight-out too powerful for a normal skill. If they were just like normal skills, what would the purpose of the restriction be?

Moreover, how do you expect to PvP competitively if you're measureably less powerful than your opponents? Perhaps the power difference is less than it might be in other games, but it still detracts from the skill-based component of PvP.