Curse

Stur · May 25, 2005, 12:43 PM // 12:43

I’m trying to understand the mentality of coming on these forums with an obvious agenda to bad mouth the game. I mean if you have a specific problem with the game they have an area here that is for the constructive expression of those complaints. Posts like (I won’t buy any expansions cause this game sucks) and (A-Net sucks cause they didn’t give me what they never promised me to begin with) are just not all that constructive, and it seems to me kind of a childish attempt to get even with the designers by making new people that come here for real input on how the game is played shy away because of the negativity. I truly believe that Guild Wars is living up to the hype, and believe me that coming from someone that loathes NCSoft. For every one of these negative posts there are a dozen posts about the good the game has done. I know it won’t stop, but I just wanted to put it out there.

I just want to ask one question of these people, if you hate the game so much, why spend time on a forum dedicated to the game? Move on, maybe get some counseling.

Mr. Matt · May 25, 2005, 12:45 PM // 12:45

That's what I always wonder. If I play a game I don't like, I just put it away to gather dust or give it to someone else, and forget about it. I might make a few comments on a gaming forum I'm already a member of, if the topic arises, but I won't sign up to a forum dedicated to that particular game specifically to complain about how much of a waste of time it was. What's the use? Why waste more time complaining? If it's so bad, just put it out of your mind and find another game to play.

Ramus · May 25, 2005, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Because they have no where else to whine about it?

I think thats a good enough reason for most people.

Madjik · May 25, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Flame Warriors

That should explain it

Check out the other flame warriors there, some of 'em are really funny, that is, if you havent already seen this site, it's been floating around out there a while XD

chalt2 · May 25, 2005, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stur

I’m trying to understand the mentality of coming on these forums with an obvious agenda to bad mouth the game. I mean if you have a specific problem with the game they have an area here that is for the constructive expression of those complaints. Posts like (I won’t buy any expansions cause this game sucks) and (A-Net sucks cause they didn’t give me what they never promised me to begin with) are just not all that constructive, and it seems to me kind of a childish attempt to get even with the designers by making new people that come here for real input on how the game is played shy away because of the negativity. I truly believe that Guild Wars is living up to the hype, and believe me that coming from someone that loathes NCSoft. For every one of these negative posts there are a dozen posts about the good the game has done. I know it won’t stop, but I just wanted to put it out there.

I just want to ask one question of these people, if you hate the game so much, why spend time on a forum dedicated to the game? Move on, maybe get some counseling.

Another voice of reason, thank you but alas the ney sayers will be here soon to call you and others that are like minded "carebears" and they are only trying to "help" the game get better unfortunetly the difference between constructive critisism and negativity is lost on them...

Navaros · May 25, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stur

I just want to ask one question of these people, if you hate the game so much, why spend time on a forum dedicated to the game? Move on, maybe get some counseling.

well sometimes people can hate aspects of a game and not hate the game overall as a whole

there are lots of reasons to complain about bad aspects of a game. here are a couple:

1. if they are complained about, the devs might actually fix them. but if no one complains, they will never ever get fixed

2. people paid good money for the game and if it doesn't always do what the box/official press states it does (ie: false advertising for Divine Aura on the CE box; marketing the game as if it has almost no grind etc. etc.), then they have a right to complain about not getting what they expected for the money they have shelled-out

as for the title of this thread being "Don't Hate"; that is an ironic title because it seems that you are hating on people for expressing their opinions of a game they have paid for. but if Guild Wars is a good and completely solid game, then it should be able to withstand any such scrutiny. if it can't withstand certain scrutinies, then that means those aspects of the game should be changed and hence the criticisms are valid. therefore people posting opinions that don't gush over the game should not be a big deal.

DrSLUGFly · May 25, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

I won't buy any expansions cuz this game rocks!!! woot! that's right! It's already taken too much of my money, my time, my health (snackage and smokes), damaged my career (little sleep means poor job performance)

AND I DON'T EVEN OWN THE GAME YET!!!! he eeeeh eheeh h hehhee hheeee....

within the next 3 weeks... oh yes... then I willingly sacrifice all that i am... be the game..

be the game...

Mr. Matt · May 25, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

1. if they are complained about, the devs might actually fix them. but if no one complains, they will never ever get fixed

There is a difference between a legitimate complaint and childish whining. The former doesn't involve simply saying 'this game sux ass!', for one.

Quote:

2. people paid good money for the game and if it doesn't always do what the box/official press states it does (ie: false advertising for Divine Aura on the CE box; marketing the game as if it has almost no grind etc. etc.), then they have a right to complain about not getting what they expected for the money they have shelled-out

If a game is found to be using false advertising, it should be an advertising watchdog people complain to, not other players.

Quote:

as for the title of this thread being "Don't Hate"; that is an ironic title because it seems that you are hating on people for expressing their opinions of a game they have paid for. but if Guild Wars is a good and completely solid game, then it should be able to withstand any such scrutiny. if it can't withstand certain scrutinies, then that means those aspects of the game should be changed and hence the criticisms are valid. therefore people posting opinions that don't gush over the game should not be a big deal.

I don't think the thread author is against constructive criticism, just those people who offer no constructive criticism, only abuse.

Stur · May 25, 2005, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSLUGFly

I won't buy any expansions cuz this game rocks!!! woot! that's right! It's already taken too much of my money, my time, my health (snackage and smokes), damaged my career (little sleep means poor job performance)

AND I DON'T EVEN OWN THE GAME YET!!!! he eeeeh eheeh h hehhee hheeee....

within the next 3 weeks... oh yes... then I willingly sacrifice all that i am... be the game..

be the game...

umm 2 words : Professional help.

And thanks matt you saved me the trouble of having to reply to that other post.

Shagsbeard · May 25, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

This happens with the reformed in many other areas, other than gaming. The worst person to sit next to on a long air flight is the reformed alcoholic. They go on and on about how bad alcohol is... how it's going to ruin your life... how you need to stop...

All that when they spent most of their life drinking the stuff.

They have to do this to justify their choice. People bad mouthing the game are doing so to justify to themselves that the choice to quit playing it was the right one. The more people they can convince to quit, the greater the degree of justification they recieve. Kinda sad really. But it's just about as bad as the person who feels they have to support every aspect of something. I'm a drinker who knows that alcohol can really mess up people's lives. I don't preach drinking, nor not drinking. People in gaming that take up the games side and "preach" that the game is the best thing ever are just as annoying as those that come here complaining that it's the worst.

DrSLUGFly · May 25, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

whoa whoa whoa!!! I never said anything about quitting! Forget the 12 steps man... I'm click, tab, 1,1,2,click, spacebar!

EDIT: okay... sorry... it's 12:14 and I'm getting antsy to sleep so my brain gets a little wiggy on me. In regards to OP: I agree with what quite a few of you have said. People do have the right to complain about problems, the squeeky wheel gets the grease. And it's also been said (reiterating here) that criticism should be constructive... this gets results (casinos have been removed... perfect example). Complaining to peers? Of course we should. When someone comes on here and says "man, I gamed tonight with this idiot who wouldn't stop calling everyone a phag jew, it was so ignorant!" and then when 20 people reply with "report that punk" and "some people are just retarded," it solidifies the community. It also makes the offended feel better. Even when one or two people speak against the offended and say "you're just pissed cuz you are a phag jew" it doesn't matter cuz the majority have sided.

As for false advertising, my favorite game Black and White, had tons of stuff that was "promised" that wasn't in the game, and loads of people got pissed. As a result, the sequel being released this fall is a very secretive project with little having been revealed to us. The reason given for the failure to provide what was promised the first time and the failure to provide even promises the second time was this: "the designer (Peter Molyneux) gets too excited in a boyish way about what he wants to do with the game, and so at the early stages he starts talking about 'we'll have this and this and this, and we want to do this and this and this.' and during the dev process so much gets changed, added and taken away." This isn't false advertising, this is changed plans. If it's written on the box then you have to decide... if such and such a spell were not included in the game or had you not known about it, would you have bought it? Absolutely because until you bought it how could you have known what the spell does? And who buys a game for one feature that's included?

Okay... enough ranting... sleep...

Venting to the community is crucial.

Pevil Lihatuh · May 25, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Agree in a way. Yeah people who come on and say "This game is teh suxx0rs" etc etc usually get banned straight away anyway, and lets face it, these people probably never even heard of the game. They simply flit from place to place causing some trouble before moving on.

However I see no problem with coming on the forum and saying "I'm just not enjoying this game because... blah blah" because you can sometimes find good ways to improve the game through reading what turned someone away from it, or even suggest to them something different to do with the game that will turn them around and end up getting the person just as addicted to the game as everyone else!

One thing that i DO hate is something I see a lot on a forum for another game. Now this game has had a lot of bugs, but the company has been very quick bringing out patches to correct them. But one 'common' one is the crash to desktop. And so just occassionally someone who gets a lot of crashes will start a thread which basically ends up with that guy and one or two others, arguing against around 50 other forum members that "Everyone had the problem with *insert major bug that prevents game running here*" even though these other 50 people installed and ran the game for over a year with no problems at all.

Alzbeta · May 25, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

...if Guild Wars is a good and completely solid game, then it should be able to withstand any such scrutiny. if it can't withstand certain scrutinies, then that means those aspects of the game should be changed and hence the criticisms are valid. therefore people posting opinions that don't gush over the game should not be a big deal.

I think you missed the point entirely. I believe the OP was referring to people who never post constructive criticism or anything remotely resembling a thought-out complaint. A lot of players have legitimate ideas that would benefit the game, and they share them with a modicum of restraint and maturity. The people I think the OP is talking about are the ones who join and post nothing but "OMG PVE IS TEH ST00PID!11!" or "This game sux cuz they sed theyd have ___ but they dont. WTF??" or "N00bs suck, ANet should make it so I don't have to ever deal with anybody less 1337 than me!"

To the OP: Correct me if I'm wrong.

The IOU · May 25, 2005, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

2. people paid good money for the game and if it doesn't always do what the box/official press states it does (ie: false advertising for Divine Aura on the CE box; marketing the game as if it has almost no grind etc. etc.), then they have a right to complain about not getting what they expected for the money they have shelled-out

No offense, but the grinding aspect of this game shouldn't bother anyone. Game has farrrr less grinding then other games out there. Have you played EQ2? That is grinding... I haven't done a grind once and lvl 20.

Even if I did...I can do it in my own world and not spawn camp and steal kills like other online games out there. You can grind and not bother a soul....

You can even /dance or /guitar for 5 hours straight in Old Ascalon if you wanted...no one would even know because you are in your own world.

Loviatar · May 25, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

has anybody considered that there is a suggestions thread that the GW people actually look at?

that you can send in a trouble report and follow up on it to let your complaint be heard?

those are constructive ways to say i feel this could be done differently and better but i dont know if it is reasistic at the moment

there have been posts on this forum where people said how nice it is that GW has made changes they wanted

give them time and possibly more nice changes will happen

in the meantime i will enjoy what i have already

(err=7 and all)

Stur · May 25, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

has anybody considered that there is a suggestions thread that the GW people actually look at?

Bang nail on the head I believe. If you want to complain do it in a constructive way, and in the right area.

MyriaN · May 25, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

I agree.
What really annoys me is when people submit reviews to those player review sites and give the game 1 star because their obscure graphics card or processor wasn't supported by the game. How can you rate a game that you never played?! Just return it and be on your way.

Unfortunately, it seems to be human nature to go out of your way to complain about something. Very few people will go out of their way to say "good job."

When people shell out $50 for something, they usually expect it to be bug-free and enjoyable. Nobody buys something with the expectation that it will suck. So when they get it home and they get the game play that they expected, they usually won't go out of their way to write a long post about how they got what they expected.

On the other hand, if they feel that the game totally sucks, they will probably get more satisfaction by writing a 20 item essay on all the ways that they hate the game than by actually playing the game.

Stev0 · May 25, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stur

I just want to ask one question of these people, if you hate the game so much, why spend time on a forum dedicated to the game? Move on, maybe get some counseling.

Well, to play Devil's Advocate on this I would have to say.

Where else are they going to post about this game? On the Unreal Tournament Forum? Honda Accord Forum? Lebanese Bread Baking forum?

Dont get me wrong. We bought into this and not many of us who have this game register on forums.

One in ten or twenty register on forums. So if a bunch of people post they have issues then perhaps they are just the tip of the iceberg. Today we (the gaming community) are a collection of non-stop complainers who plod from game to game, all with the notion that there will be problems no matter how much the game is patched. There are a core group of people that comfortably continue on playing while at both ends of the spectrum there are Ultimate Fans who can't get enough and The Disillusioned who feel they pretty much should have just burned their money. It's these ends of the spectrum that end up on forums.

sybban · May 25, 2005, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stur

I’m trying to understand the mentality of coming on these forums with an obvious agenda to bad mouth the game. I mean if you have a specific problem with the game they have an area here that is for the constructive expression of those complaints. Posts like (I won’t buy any expansions cause this game sucks) and (A-Net sucks cause they didn’t give me what they never promised me to begin with) are just not all that constructive, and it seems to me kind of a childish attempt to get even with the designers by making new people that come here for real input on how the game is played shy away because of the negativity. I truly believe that Guild Wars is living up to the hype, and believe me that coming from someone that loathes NCSoft. For every one of these negative posts there are a dozen posts about the good the game has done. I know it won’t stop, but I just wanted to put it out there.

I just want to ask one question of these people, if you hate the game so much, why spend time on a forum dedicated to the game? Move on, maybe get some counseling.

Um, is it just me or isn't that the point of having a forum? Not everyone is going to like the game.

Zeru · May 25, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

You are right to say that people who bash the game and complain without reason and don't support their complaints with logical reasoning and decent suggestions shouldn't be posting (pointless and a waste of time, yes?). However, I really haven't seen that much here. The vast majority of the people who do see something wrong with the game (in their view at least), whether it be skill grind, runes, elites, or whatever, do support their views with solid logical reasoning and while less frequently, there are still a fair amount who throw possible solutions around. There's nothing wrong with that.

I don't know why you didn't mention a group that's equally as bad if not worse: those who support the other side of the argument than the 'complainers' and do so without any reasoning at all; just look through the multiple thread posts on grind or whatever and you're guaranteed to find several people saying if you don't like it don't play it, quit whining, or the grind in wow/eq was 10x worse. They don't add anything constructive either, and their sole purpose seems to be trying to prevent (assuming these threads are actually being read by the devs) others from having a game they like which wouldn't actually hurt the other parts of the game. That is definitely not right.