Curse

Ensign · May 25, 2005, 08:38 AM // 08:38

This game needs gambling badly - gambling for items, gambling for runes, whatever, as long as there's *something* to suck cash out of the economy in large amounts. The casino spam was annoying as hell, certainly, and a ton of them were just scams, but don't take that as a sign of the value of gambling in a game like this.

Peace,
-CxE

Mav · May 25, 2005, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lim-Dul

Just think of how many requirements you have to fulfill to run a casino in the real world - including a permission from the authorities. Similarly running a casino in GW shouldn't be done without the company's knowledge - even if it's virtual money ANet still are the AUTHORITY in the GW world and can set up laws as they please. :-P

By analogy: knives aren't forbidden, nor the manifacturing of knives, yet murder by using a knife is forbidden. Mamma mia! Can't you see a certain rule here?

Oh I get the real life analogies, and I agree.

But we're talking about a game here. Unless someone gets screwed over by trying to buy their stuff on eBay, then no one is getting scammed. The gold in game, is just fake gold, in a game that's not real. It's just data stored on a server, you lose nothing by "losing" gold or items in game, other than time spent but hey, theres no monthly fee, you've already paid for the game so your time is your own and not being paid for.

I played D2 for god knows how many years, and I said the same things back then. It's the peoples fault for getting scammed (less of course they gave our their CD key which is a real world type thing that you kinda do need to play). If we keep coddling people after they lose their stuff or get scammed, they'll never learn not to fall for scams or not to think things through.

Lim-Dul · May 25, 2005, 09:08 AM // 09:08

I see your point but in your approach we are mostly oriented towards letting people learn from their mistakes. They gambled, they lost, they won't gamble again. The problem is that we are then taking in-game casinos as a kind of "force of nature" we must live with. I think the main purpose of the whole ban on gambling in GW is stopping people from spamming the main chat with useless crap. Gambling is not a simple act of scamming - it is a very complex process which includes dozens of possibilities to cheat on people, annoy them or simply abuse the in-game system. If people need gambling so badly they can go to any online casino - most of them have virtual money as well as real money - and start right away. I mean - if gambling is what people want, then GW is the wrong game for them - the gambling features never were too complex in GW, were they? Rolling dice? LOL! If that's more interesting than the game itself then we are living in a strange world indeed.
I can think of 100 other possibilities to use dice rolls - GW is an RPG after all and most RPGs include dice rolling. It's nice to roll the dice to decide arbitrarily e.g. who should pull this hord of creeps. =)

Vermilion Okeanos · May 25, 2005, 09:32 AM // 09:32

people who is dumb enough to get scam by the oldest trick in the book = they deserve some smacking in the head.

people who like to grow their happiness on someone else's pain = those people deserve to be torture.

just my personal opinions.

Vynn · May 25, 2005, 09:46 AM // 09:46

I'm not sure what to think.

Basically I've never participated in these casinos and I have never seen one. I've been playing since the 27th and have not come across a "casino-spamming-player", maybe that is because I'm not that far in the game (4 characters, all in post-searing). I like casual play.

Anywho what I really want clarified is whether any of these two scenarios are against the rules:

#1 I've been adventuring with a party member, another player. I found a cool item. He/she suggests we roll a dice on who gets to keep the item = we gamble on it. The rules are simple: If I roll an even number and he rolls an even number - I get to keep the item and vice versa. If I roll an even number and he rolls an uneven number, it is a draw, and we have to roll again.

#2 I advertice that I want to gamble for credits in the local channel in Ascalon City, as an example. The rules are simple: If I roll an even number and he rolls an even number - he wins 500 GP and vice versa. If I roll an even number and he rolls an uneven number, it is a draw, and we have to roll again.

What is legal and what is not? First consider the rules. Also consider that the participant might be a friend or a family member of mine, no money or items are deposited, both players have to roll, etc. Are they both illegal?

I've never done either, but it is something that I have thought off.

BoogieKnights · May 25, 2005, 09:47 AM // 09:47

i just dont get this move atall, if u dont want to be scammed by a casino then dont roll dice for gold - there is already a foolproof mechanism to prevent being scammed by casinos in place - i.e. dont use them.

by all means get a better spam filter or shunt these lowlifes to somewhere they can spam (like a desert island) but narrowing game options and wrapping the playerbase in cotton wool is going to help anyone in my opinion.

if this is indeed a "role" playing game then the idea of role here seems to be a very narrow one. i play online rpgs because they offer options and i think removing the option of being untrustworthy and evil goes against certain freedoms that should be allowed in these environments.

i dont advocate the use of casinos atall and think they are an idiotic way to waste farmed gold but the prescence of things like this allong with the thieves etc helps make it a more rounded/realistic environment for me.

Vermilion Okeanos · May 25, 2005, 09:59 AM // 09:59

If you really want "role playing" you should be able to hunt scammers down after they scam you... obviously, Anet play the role of the hunters... and we hired them after we pay for the game.

adam.skinner · May 25, 2005, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Thank you, ArenaNet!

Kostabi · May 25, 2005, 11:55 AM // 11:55

I'm not going to wade into the on going debate here because it's basically pointless. I'm just glad that this puts an end to the endless spam in the Local channels.

Madjik · May 25, 2005, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Thanks anet. the spam was really getting bad. As to you casino operators, you've only got yourselves to blame for it. If you'd been playing fair you wouldnt have to worry about this. I was never scammed, i dont see the use in gambling myself, and i simply dont gamble, but i'll tell you one thing, weather you do it or not is your own choice. I'd have been happy with the /ignore feature working in such a way as that I would only have to put you on my list so I wouldnt have to hear you spamming the heck outta my channels, But since so many of you were scamming, on top of spamming, seriously. Do the math, its your own fault. Live with it and move on. You find another way to scam and anet will try to put a stop to that too. Those few of you who played fair only have the scammers to blame for this one too. You casino runners want to point the finger at someone you should start looking to those of you that scammed. Your casino's might still be around today if it werent for that. Blame yourselves.

Ramus · May 25, 2005, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kostabi

I'm not going to wade into the on going debate here because it's basically pointless. I'm just glad that this puts an end to the endless spam in the Local channels.

Haha, good luck with that. Maybe 10% of the spam in local channels comes from casinos.

I for one am against, "Punishing the many, to stop the few" policy that developers take. I believe in fixing the problem, and finding a way to make all players happy. Making this kind of fix, "Its illegal, do not do it" is only going to tax there own staff and ruin the experience for A) Legit Casinos and B) Players who enjoy it and have nothing better to do with the insanely large flow of money in the game.

I am fine with removing it, but perhaps it would be better if you first had a resolution to the problem before doing so. AKA a casino npc or a way to make it more legit. It is the Developers responsiblity not to add things to the game that can be exploited by legit usage.

Madjik · May 25, 2005, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

We may consider offering an NPC or other in-game system for gambling. Would that make us hypocritical? Of course not! Closing casinos wasn't a statement on casinos or gambling. It was a statement made and a promise kept to maintain a game world free of abuse and the exploitation of other players, to the best of our ability. If a gambling option is added to Guild Wars, it will offer a fair system from which exploitation is precluded. The decision on that is up to the designers, of course, with our thanks for the valuable suggestions and the valid reports offered on this whole subject.

There ya go ramus, its in consideration. It wasnt about the spam anywho, was all about the scam.

Xellos · May 25, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Yeah, I think the one thing good about Diablo 2 was the gambling for rare items and such. Sure, they weren't great in D2, since the uber uber items weren't available in some patches, but it was still a great idea.

Teufel Eldritch · May 25, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Yay! No more casino spam!

a_scrawny_gnoll01 · May 25, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Ha... banning casinos... that is just hillarious.
In all honesty, sure, I believe it will cut down spam, and less *stupid people* will try to scam people / attempt to triple their money /cough /cough.
I dont really see why they are doing this (other than the fact that it is spam...) Trading with other players is your own act of free will (so to speak) so they really have no power, in my opinion, to say that we cant trade with other 'casino players' in attempt to get more money.
Sure I may be wrong, and Anet may feel that they can do whatever they want (and why shouldnt they), but I feel that they have no right to exercise the power to ban people who want to /trade /roll for potetntial monetary values.

/rant off

-There are three kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can't.

Ramus · May 25, 2005, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madjik

There ya go ramus, its in consideration. It wasnt about the spam anywho, was all about the scam.

Yes, I saw that. And as I said, if that was done FIRST, I would be fine with it. But by just outright banning it with no solution, they are just going to create more problems and the unlegit casinos will find better ways to scam people.

goku19123 · May 25, 2005, 02:11 PM // 14:11

If they didn't spam in the local (or global or w.e channel it is), and spammed in the trade channel, then I wouldn't care, because I can uncheck the damn trade channel and be on my merry way. But when I need the local channel to find people for a group, and I can't see a damn response in all the spam of casinos, then that is a problem.

Yojinj · May 25, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

In behalf of moral and the community, thank you very much for removing "player" casino's.

Fraktyl · May 25, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Hate to say this, but almost every other MMOG/MMORPG/***G has banned the Casinos also.

I can see both sides of the arguement here.

Yes, most people would realize you could get scammed if you play. But who's to say who "most" people are? Just as in real life, you're going to run into the a**hats. There are people that make it their main goal to ruin the online experience of others. How do you tell them apart from the "Legit" (and I use this word loosely) Casinos? There may, and probably are people who do run "Legit" ones. With the conditions for winning I've been seeing SPAMMED on Global/Trade, the odds are very much in the Houses favor.

Unfortunately, we don't pay to play this game. And even it was a monthly fee, we still don't get a whole lot of say. Anet makes the rules, just like Blizzard does with WoW, SoE with EQ/SW:G/EQII..etc.. you play on their servers, you play by their rules. Don't like it... play another game.

Also, look at the massive amounts of Spam trying to 'Scam' the Casino Runners? People trying to pad chat so it fills the box and over runs into the next line. If people don't know about UI customization, they could possibly fall for it.

This is a new game, its got it's growing pains. They changed Sigil icons to stop that scam, why wouldn't they shut down another possible one, from both the player and the Casino side?

I just hope Anet keeps up with it.

Madjik · May 25, 2005, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramus

Yes, I saw that. And as I said, if that was done FIRST, I would be fine with it. But by just outright banning it with no solution, they are just going to create more problems and the unlegit casinos will find better ways to scam people.

/shrug to each thier own ramus. I dont see any diffrence in the order man, weather it happened first or last, if what your saying will happen, it will happen reguardless. Order makes no diffrence to those that run un~legitly, they'll take your money any way they can get it.