Curse

Morat · May 26, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by xakia

Think that's stressfull?

Try running 3 nations in Shadowbane. You don't play, you talk politics 24/7. Only thrill I ever got was pking dumb members with the ol' /sick um guards ban habit.

sounds very similar tbh. Especially when you throw some alliance politics into the mix. 3000 people in a single alliance makes for some massive politics.

OutcastHawk · May 26, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Don't forget that teens can be mature, too. I'm in a guild of about 20 members, mostly teens with five or six college people, but we're all pretty mature. You don't have to be an adult to be mature.

As far as recruiting, we mostly let people come to us, or just tell people about the guild who we played with. We never go around shouting "ne1 wana jion my gild?" You're not gonna get any decent members that way. We also don't let people join right away. They have to go to our forums, read the rules, post an application, ect. We're not growing really fast, but then, what's the point of growing really fast with a bunch of bad members?

DrSLUGFly · May 26, 2005, 03:31 PM // 15:31

The chap who mentioned "grow or whither" has it right. We're only in the first couple months. Eventually small guilds will dissolve into larger guilds and before the first expansion is out I bet we'll start seeing some guilds hit the 100 person cap and become well known throughout Tyria.

vai demine · May 26, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Seems like the main question to be addressed here is "what do I want a guild for?"

If you're in it for being a leader, for designing your own cape, for having your own name, then you're probably going to have to deal with small numbers (at least for now). If you're in it for the teamplay, the ladder, the comraderie, etc... you should probably look at joining a guild, and not creating one.

The best place to find a guild, in my opinon, is on the forums, not in-game. Search the forums, go to potential guild websites, register on their forums, and get to know people. Then look them up in-game through your friends list and see how you work together.

Anyway, this game is all about the guilds. It should be easy to create a guild and anyone who wants one should have the ability and opportunity to create/join one. Let's wait and see how they evolve over time.

Vai

Grim_Grom · May 26, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

My guild has about 14 members, all the people there were invited because I quested with them.

Navaros · May 26, 2005, 04:13 PM // 16:13

i have found recruiting guild members into your guild in Guild Wars to be virtually impossible

that is because as of post-Searing, just about 100% of everybody is already in a Guild before you do any quests or missions with them

and if you go recruit in pre-Searing, you get people who abandon the Guild after a few days.

seems like creating a viable guild in Guild Wars can not be done unless you happen to know a lot of people from real life who have the game, or you have monetary incentives to offer because you're rich or something like that

this is a huge issue that needs to be addressed by the devs somehow

Dreamsmith · May 26, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

this is a huge issue that needs to be addressed by the devs somehow

This is a non-issue, and you should never ask the devs to fix something that you should be fixing yourself.

We don't offer monetary incentives, and only a few people in my guild know each other in real life. Are we having trouble recruiting? Yes, but it's the opposite problem. A few months ago, we decided we were growing too fast, and started applying the brakes. We now make it a lot more difficult to join, because we'd be swamped with new members if we didn't. After a couple of bad experiences, we've stopped saying yes to anyone who asks (not that we ever did, but we used to be less selective -- we'd have already hit the guild size cap if we'd continued doing things the old way).

If you aren't beating off potential recruits with a stick, maybe you should be asking yourself why your guild isn't and some other guilds are? What are you doing to promote yourselves, and why isn't it working? How are other guilds promoting themselves? Is there something you could learn from them?

The devs can't force people to join your guild. If you're having a problem recruiting, there really isn't anything the devs can do to fix that. Look instead at what methods you're using and why they aren't effective, and do something different.

Navaros · May 26, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

If you aren't beating off potential recruits with a stick, maybe you should be asking yourself why your guild isn't and some other guilds are? What are you doing to promote yourselves, and why isn't it working? How are other guilds promoting themselves? Is there something you could learn from them?

i know why my guild isn't and some guilds are. because my guild is small. therefore, potential recruits are not interested in it simply by virtue of it being small. everyone wants to join a big huge guild which is active in PVP. when you are small, no one will join.

it's a catch 22.

Epinephrine · May 26, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Not really. You have to recruit. I posted that I was interested in joining a guild in the guild section of a popular forum, with a description of my playstyle, hours of play, what I was looking for in a guild and so on, and I got numerous invites to check out webpages, tag along on missions and see whether I fit in, and actually ended up deciding on a guild through all that, and I couldn't be happier than where I ended up.

They were recruiting, you see? They combed through the site looking for potential matches, and invited them to come out and play. If you actively recruit, and recruit people who fit your guild you'll likely have people join in. All guilds start small pretty much, the guild I am in started as 3 people, and I don't think that's unusual.

Dreamsmith · May 26, 2005, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

i know why my guild isn't and some guilds are. because my guild is small. therefore, potential recruits are not interested in it simply by virtue of it being small. everyone wants to join a big huge guild which is active in PVP. when you are small, no one will join.

it's a catch 22.

I see. I don't really think that's your problem, though. I see you quoted my questions but didn't answer them. Instead, you've simply stated it's impossible from the get-go. Well, in that, you're right. It's impossible to do anything you decide is impossible. You can't win with that kind of attitude. The reasons you give are wrong, but with the attitude you have, it's a foregone conclusion that your guild will fail.

Getting a new guild going isn't impossible. It just isn't necessarily easy. Don't expect the devs to be able to wave a magic wand and make it easy, either. If you don't do the work necessary to get one going, it ain't going to happen. Standing around Ascalon City shouting "Guild Recruiting" isn't going to get you very far (assuming that's what you're doing; since you haven't said what you're doing to promote yourselves or find and screen recruits, you give off the impression that you're just expecting a great guild to drop fully formed into your lap without having to work for it -- if that's not the case, you should give a lot more details in what you've done before asserting it's too hard right now and that the devs need to change something).

Let me ask a classic marketing question: what have you done to distinguish your guild from all the other tiny guilds out there? This game is a competition on many levels; like the marketplace, a product doesn't succeed without both addressing a need and distinguishing itself as a better choice than its competitors. The question you need to answer, and then communicate the answer to, is, "Why <your guild name here>?"

My guild has an entire thread on its fora devoted to that question, seeking input from all members. So far, no one has answered, "I was seeking a big huge guild which is active in PvP." (Thus my skepticism for your quoted assertion above.)

One more classic question: who is your ideal customer, err, guild member? Describe that person. Now, what are you doing to find, recruit, and retain them?

Jab · May 26, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

I got around 7 people in mine, most haven't been on in a few days, hopefully once more people pick up the game it will be easier to get some recuriting done.

CheshrKitn · May 26, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

My guild is at about 20 players and we didnt recruit a single one of them.

We were actually a CS clan that moved into GW and so we had a decent base from that (8 or so who started playing gw). From that we only let in people that current guild members already knew in some way.

Its been slow but its nice because everyone in the guild is either a rl buddy, family member or good ol friend of someone in our guild. So the result is a very happy, close knit, fun guild. I cant stand seeing people running around the cities shouting out for others to come join their guild just to boost numbers. Whats the point of playing with complete strangers you may not even get along with? =/ I suppose someday we may take in other folks but only after they have spent time playing with us and have gotten to know us as people and become friends. Its too bad more guilds dont have that type of group because imo its such a great way to go.

Keesa · May 26, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

i know why my guild isn't and some guilds are. because my guild is small. therefore, potential recruits are not interested in it simply by virtue of it being small. everyone wants to join a big huge guild which is active in PVP. when you are small, no one will join.

it's a catch 22.

I love being in a small PvP guild--sure, back in the day when I had to have 40 people to do anything high end, being in a small guild would have been tough, but when tournament play is 8v8 it doesn't matter. Being small isn't necessarily a detraction for a guild. Being small and snobbish or or narrow-minded or elitist or something else might be, though.

And this is just a guess, but the activities in which you partake documented in this thread http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=13163 may or may not effect the number of quality (ie., non-moron and loyal) guildmembers you attract.

It's just a thought.

Adaria · May 26, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

We have about twelve memebrs in our guild, we keep growing daily by at least two or three. We've had a few people leave their current guild to join ours due to the community factor of it. I'm very ahppy with how things go, I wouldn't want to grow any faster than this, because its hard to keep track of everyone as is at th emoment

Ordas · May 26, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

they might want to look into a system for merging guilds... like if > 50% of both guilds agree to merge, it will combine and a leader is chosen (or there are 2 leaders... or something)

that way people don't have to leave their small guild that they've made friends with just to get a feel of a larger guild.

Epinephrine · May 26, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

My guild has an entire thread on its fora devoted to that question, seeking input from all members.

OMG. I thought I was alone in using the word fora for the plural of forum. So good to meet someone who bothers. I'll admit to being a bit pedantic and old fashioned, but there are proper plural forms of words such as stadium, forum and formula, as well as singular forms of words such as data and alumni. Now I want to start the Grammar Guild!

Keesa · May 26, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

I knew stadia, formulae, datum, and alumnus... but not fora.

I sit corrected.

The IOU · May 26, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Guess I have been kind of lucky. Having found it too hard to invite. I'm not trying to invite 5-10 members a day or anything. If I can get one in the door to see how they like it and how well they blend in it is a good day.

We have about 20 members so far...

cyberzomby · May 26, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

yes my guild has about 12 members right now. Were going to try and recruit some high level players and get the guild to know each other well. And than try and win that signet in the HOH

Navaros · May 26, 2005, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

Let me ask a classic marketing question: what have you done to distinguish your guild from all the other tiny guilds out there? This game is a competition on many levels; like the marketplace, a product doesn't succeed without both addressing a need and distinguishing itself as a better choice than its competitors. The question you need to answer, and then communicate the answer to, is, "Why <your guild name here>?"

My guild has an entire thread on its fora devoted to that question, seeking input from all members. So far, no one has answered, "I was seeking a big huge guild which is active in PvP." (Thus my skepticism for your quoted assertion above.)

One more classic question: who is your ideal customer, err, guild member? Describe that person. Now, what are you doing to find, recruit, and retain them?

@the first question: i can't do anything to distinguish myself from the other guilds because i have nothing tangible to offer new recruits other than answers to some of their questions about the game. i am not rich, therefore i can not offer them gold or other items. i do not have a guild large enough or of high enough level to PVP with, so i can't offer to teach them PVP skills because i myself do not have much PVP experience. i can't offer them a guild with lots of players always online to help them with missions, because my guild is too small and the players are of too low a level. other than the awesome cape which i designed, there is not much i have to sell with.

@the forum thread comment: my conclusion that everyone is seeking a big huge guild which is active in PvP has been based on interaction with numerous individuals in various towns of the game. whenever i talk to them the first questions the ask always are: "how many members do you have?" - to which they are expecting a high amount for an answer. and then: "do you have a Guild Hall?" - for which they are expecting a "yes" answer to.

@the last question: my ideal guild member would be someone who is loyal and will always remain loyal to me and the guild. and is committed to doing everything legally possible to succeed and win in PVE and PVP. and who is not a moron who dies every 5 minutes. as for what i do to find them...there is not much i can do, because whenever i encounter any even semi-competent player on a mission or quest, it is a 100% guarantee that they will already be in a guild. this is the main issue i think the devs should address. that there is no viable way to recruit good players who you meet during the normal course of playing the game since 100% of them are in a guild before you meet them. because of this gargantuan barricade, i feel my hands are tied in terms of bringing a substantial number of quality players into my guild. as for retaining them...i shouldn't have to retain them. if they are not disloyal jerks instead of real men, then they should retain themselves, shouldn't they?