Curse

Phaedrus · May 27, 2005, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immortal Flame

Hm...why would you play an Online RPG without other players...That's what offline RPGs are for?

Sometimes you want to play solitaire and sometimes you want to play poker. I enjoy interacting with other players a lot, hence being a monk

What I don't like:

* The guy who charges in even though his leadership skills are lacking and he has no tactical ability at all.

* The warrior who won't listen to my (nor anyone's) advice on what should be targeted first.

* People who retort to everything by calling me a fag or noob (e.g. when I clarify for them what "rare" means).

* The elementalist who doesn't know when to use self aoes and distance aoes.

* The ranger who closes to melee distance before "pulling".

* The monk who doesn't mention he's a smiter until you're in a bad situation.

* The necro with a hammer.

* The IW mesmer who hasn't yet captured IW.

* The IW mesmer who really believes in his heart of hearts that he's a warrior.

* The monk with a bow who calls targets.

* The twelve-year-old boys who pretend to be lesbian couples with relationship issues.

* The "high-level" people who join groups to get ONLY the bonus, kill some drakes, or pop a chest then d/c with no warning.

* The monk who tells me I'm not pulling my weight and thanks me for healing him after he's died in one hit--which clearly a healing monk can prevent.

* The multitude of warriors, ranger, and casters who do not focus on called targets. While I forgive many casters this sin (since you HAVE to throw spells in different directions in order to be effective), sometimes you really just need to focus fire to win.

* The random or pick-up pvp group that has the people who taunt, cheer, dance, talk trash, insult, or otherwise pitch immature little fits about whatever isn't going their way. Clearly, as a W/Mo you should "pwn all" and how *dare* we other players be so inconsiderate as to not be W/Mos with you?

So for all these reasons and more, sometimes you just want to do a peaceful goddamn mission or quest without other people, without the randomness, even without your guildies. Sometimes you just want some exp or loot, a skill point, or even to advance your conceptual art fun-time character a bit. Please don't criticize people because they do something preventative so they *don't* burn-out on the community and quit the game altogether.

[ ]

Keure · May 27, 2005, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Why I play with henchies in PvE 95% of the time:

-Perfectly obedient
-There are inevitable real-life obligations that disrupt my game; since there aren't any people waiting on me, I feel free to walk away from the computer/leave the mission
-They work well enough (Southern Shiverpeaks)

Aside from the occasional floating or stuck henchman I haven't had any trouble. It does take a good amount of patience and a bit of planning, though...

Shadow_Avenger · May 27, 2005, 08:28 AM // 08:28

I have done 80% of missions with Henchmen only as they are good, and it is easier to use them than it is to actually find a good team for the majority of cases.
I also use them to explore and quests.
Occationally I team with Guild buddies, but even then often take Henchies to fill in numbers rather that risk taking players who are less intelligent than the AI.

Aurura Glade, Sanctum cay, Elona, and thirsty river are the only missions that I find actually require a Good player team. Saying this I know that some atleast can be do with Henchies and with patience.

Aka · May 27, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29

I think Navaros is not going to be convinced, but I thought I would add my bit.

I love the henchmen in this game. Yes they can be stupid and frusterating, and they are perhaps a bit underpowered, but they make the game very playable for the soloer. Not perfect and not easy, but playable and fun.

I was having trouble with The Wilds mission. I had run it 4 or 5 times with henchmen and kept getting overwhelmed, though I was making progress and learning the right way to do things. But I was frusterated so I joined a pick-up group. We got smeared at the first intersection. I tried to suggest some strategy (think? look? wait?) and it happened again. Joined another group. Better but still bad. The players would get distracted when the fighting started and run the wrong way, into more mobs.

After 6 tries, I gave up. Next day, with my party of quiet, stupid, and perfectly consistent hencies, I got the mission and the bonus on the first go.

Of course there are great players out there, even in pick-up groups. But it's great to be able to play anytime you want, and do what you want, and have enough help to do well.

Last bit. The other night I was about halfway through a long mission and I heard explosions outside. I ran out and a local radio station was doing a fireworks concert in sync with music simocast on the air. About ten people on my street were hanging out listening to the music and watching fireworks. Fifteen minutes later I came back in, having had a really good time, and my poor henchies were still there, waiting patiently. Love that.

Pandora's box · May 27, 2005, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Getting to know henchmen really helps in completing missions with them. Yet its unquestionable that the henchmen AI is bad: A healer who runs right into a mob of enemys is horrible. When you die, all henchmen have the abillity to resurrect you, but do they use it instantly? No, they fight on like soldiers without general. you cant complete missions where you have to use a 2nd chr. to pull some trigger, e.g. to open a gate. The archer starts to shoot as soon as one enemy is within shooting range, without waiting for an attack command. They follow you like dogs where you would like them to wait back in an ambush. In short: you should be able to control henchmen and give them commands, like you can control a party in Baldurs Gate. Maybe no advance commands since they are not your chr's, but still basic commands like 'wait here' 'always heal x first' 'protect x' etc.

butcherboy · May 28, 2005, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Fundamentally speaking, if you are in an instanced dungeon, how hard would it to be to adjust the number of MOBs to the number of party members you have? If I want to solo, why not reduce the group sizes to 1-2 instead of the normal 4. I prefer to solo sometimes, group with PCs others (nerf herders ruin the pack, but 90% of the folks I've partied with were good mates), or grab a bunch of henchies to go for the "battle" effect of taking on 4-6 MOBs at once. Flexibility at it's finest. D2 had this, a few other games I can't recall the name of have this, GW could do this cheaply as opposed to force parties.

However, at the current state the "solo"ability of GW is a lie as you have to henchie up or PC up to complete even the mundane task of going from city A to undiscovered city B. I just plain like to explore sometimes without questing. I can't solo explore. Solo with henchies isn't solo - it is taking 3-7 NPC meat bags along that you have to share with and sometimes bring on the hurt by charging monsters you've tracked around.

I can solo 24 lvl monsters at lvl 15 as long as the other henchie dudes keep the other 3 dudes busy, but the henchie dudes are usually level 8 and can't hang very long. So skill isn't an issue, but why should I take along a heater on a trip to Trinidad? It just doesn't make sense to force groups.

The henchie work-arounds are good information. I can't say henchies or PCs are better as both have boon and bane. I just don't like that "solo" is a perverted way to say "party with hencies."

I want my soloability, my flexibility, my freedom to go it alone.

Candyman963 · May 28, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

I think henchies are great. I tend to not do missions with them because well, it can be pretty boring without people there to screw it up occasionally. I really just enjoy that element of randomness.

The great thing about the NPCs is that they are completely predictable and controllable, if you know how to work them (it really doesn't take that long to google it, I swear). I'd take henches over a bad human party any day.

Having monk henchies also means I don't have to wait around half an hour for a human monk to finally decide my group is worth joining. There are people who smear the monk NPCs as worthless a lot, to which I say: Stop dying so fast. I used to play a melee pyro and never worried about dying. If you know when to get out and let someone else soak up the damage for a while, it makes your life much easier.

Think about it this way: the henchies are a tool. If they don't fit your particular style of play, don't use them. Some people are naturally going to be better with them than others are. Is it possible for people to complete the end of the game with henches? Sure, it's possible. Is it necessarily impossible for another player to do it just because you can't? No.

I also enjoy exploring with NPCs. They don't mind when you leave them behind as bait to be slaughtered by all the monsters you're running past.

Banned · May 29, 2005, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Actually there are some great tips here --- thanks! Although I have finished the game with my monk, I still have 3 other characters I play. With my 20 warrior, who is struggling with acension (with PUG's for Elona, Rivers, and Dunes) I might just try to finish his ascension trials with Henches. I do use Henches strictly upto these three trial areas, and I do find them more tolerable at levels 15 or lower. Usually I dont have a problem with them but when I do it is my fault when I look back and see what happened, aggroed to many, picked the wrong first target, etc,. The point is it can be done, and I will finish off Elona with Henches... might as well, since PUGS get me killed more than Henches do.

Just wanted to make my own observations and say a thank you for the positive feedback and tips about the the little tricks. Otherwise, sound tactics rule the day and if you observe Henchmen quirks you should be good for the win!

Principa Discordia · May 29, 2005, 02:41 AM // 02:41

This thread is being watched. Keep it nice, children.

eventhorizen · May 29, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

@original poster: no, you cannot solo in Guild Wars. not even with henchmen, because their AI is really really bad.

unfortunately many over-eager fans of Guild Wars like to propagate the untrue idea that you can solo in Guild Wars, and freely post such misinformation all over the Internet

i feel bad that you were lied to in this regard

as for henchmen getting an equal share of all drops: henchmen are barely worth 10 gold a piece. them getting an equal share of all the useful items - considering how utterly useless their service is - is completely ludicrous

Cant solo? I didnt use a henchman until I went from the gate near ascalon to Pikins Square at lvl 10. Pretty much solod Regents Valley at lvl 10 with no henchies. Solo most of Yaks Bend until the Iron mine missions, then at level 14 I solod the journey through the ice cave where the ettins mobs are, running back to the white mantle guy cos my skill set couldnt get through the Ettin bosses healing, to Lions Arch, only ever using more than 1 at Gates of Kryta.

I dont usually hang around solo in the areas near beetletun or temple of the ages or after that, because its extremelly tough at times, but Iv still completed one of the Druids overlook quests solo, although im lvl 20 now.

Me and my mate who is a monk were mucking around the other day near beetletun. Pulled 7 lvl 15 ettins and chewed through them all. Was pretty awsome to be running 2 skillsets furiously and chewing through hordes of fairly tough creatures. Tbh I was a bit bored

but he hasnt got as far as me with that character yet.

Call me a liar if you want, its obvious to me you have things you could be working on in Guild Wars

wgregory87 · May 29, 2005, 06:29 AM // 06:29

I'm not even good at this game (highest is level 12) and I can tell you why your henchmen are, by your words, having 'defective AI'.

1: When you stop before a mob, your henchmen set up a radius around you and if their radius is within enemy range, they will attack the enemy. So they're not 'running in front of you to attack'. You are simply forcing them to engage in enemy confrontation.

2: When you resurected Little Thom when your whole party was dead. Alright I'll try to let you figure this one out. All henchmen have Res Sig, your whole party was dead, and Little Thom ran towards where all your party's corpses were. Can you get that much? He was trying to resurect more of your party.

So no, the AI is not defective in the cases you've stated. If anything to complain about would be the positioning of the weaker professions. Today I was playing with a mage that trapped itself between a huge mob of melee beasts. It died extremely fast. Anyways henchmen are a viable way to complete the game. Maybe you'd have to strengthen yourself a bit more early game to give yourself an edge against the enemy but I'm sure that it is possible.

Hell Marauder · May 30, 2005, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immortal Flame

Hm...why would you play an Online RPG without other players...That's what offline RPGs are for?

Yes, I used henchmen to complete key missions. But I do like join up with PUG, not for mission completion but just for the fun of it and to meet colorful people in the group, and see how many ways human players can screw up.

SOT · May 30, 2005, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by butcherboy

Lie #1,2,3: You can solo in GW. You only need a party to complete certain quests. You can complete the game without a human party.

FALSE! You have to party up with some PC or NPC to even leave certain town areas. NPCs not only share in an equal portion of everything gained (except a few drops the server decides you want, and that isn't always quest items) but can be frustratingly over zealous when attacking enemies. Even though some could say the same for PC members at least PC members are usually over the level of the creatures being fought. Also, some of the later quest NPCs are nearly impossible to use to complete the mission due to their lack of ability to attack targets by priority or together.

bullshit.

SOT · May 30, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by wgregory87

2: When you resurected Little Thom when your whole party was dead. Alright I'll try to let you figure this one out. All henchmen have Res Sig, your whole party was dead, and Little Thom ran towards where all your party's corpses were. Can you get that much? He was trying to resurect more of your party.

Bullshit.

My necro henchman, whenever I die, runs off through the WALLS of the map to the exact spot where we died before, and by the time I circumvent the map, he's dead again.

Little Thom does the same thing to me, as does the healer and the archer. I still got to Lion's arch with them thoughm so the initial post is also still bullshit

Xellos · May 30, 2005, 12:52 PM // 12:52

I'll gladly take henchmen over most people even in tombs, let alone PVE.

Hell Marauder · May 30, 2005, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Yea, it's a known hench AI bug. With resurrection one of them often runs to where engagement was. That's a known bug often plaguing a henchmen party, though not as deadly as the one with hench stuck in sixth dimension. I hope Dev Team will fix this problem soon.

SOT · May 30, 2005, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Marauder

Yea, it's a known hench AI bug. With resurrection one of them often runs to where engagement was. That's a known bug often plaguing a henchmen party, though not as deadly as the one with hench stuck in sixth dimension. I hope Dev Team will fix this problem soon.

Also, the cultist guy, when I was going through the Stone Summit area, trying to use that damn lever 900 times on 900 things, he would walk in front of a treasure chest and...become one with it. Most damn irritating moment for me.

I fixed it by aggroing a boss mob and running past him. He ate floor. I still made it, but after -60% on my ass.

Xellos · May 30, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Look at it this way, bugs are the equivalent of people disconnecting or being afk for no reason. Plus, henchies have a flat rate of skill. It's the "safe" way.

Hell Marauder · May 30, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07

One nice thing about hench party is you get to learn the game better than with human groups. No one tells you where to go or what to do so you often have improvise and experiment yourself. Yesterday I helped my wife getting through Elona mission with a hench party, in just two tries. It's easy because I know which route is the safest and most efficient to take with my previous attempts with henchies. But with human groups you just run along with them, not able to familarize with details of a mission map. Same with Dune mission, in which there is a staff that can slow down enemies, but playing with humans first time through I didn't even know it exists, because no one bothers to go there to pick it up. There is a reason why there's a road here, trap there. With henchies it really helps learning the game.