Curse

Paladin_Adoni · Jun 17, 2005, 09:06 AM // 09:06

I am a full-fledged PvE'r no PvP for me at all.

I have posted my suggestion for this PvP UAS and other problems in many places, but seem to get ignored.

but I will keep trying until my idea is seen as a bad one, or accepted as a good one

Currently you have 2 options when creating a character PvE and PvP.

I can see a simple way to fix alot of the issues both camps are having

add a third option. PvE/PvP.

this way, us PvE only ppl can create our PvE character and do our thing and not worry about all the PvP stuff.

PvE/PvP character are still able to enter the PvE world and unlock things and have are able to compete in PvP in one of the (below) modes.

PvP only characters can unlock all the skills / runes / upgrades. but have the option to only compete with other characters created with this method.

PvP available Modes :

PvE/PvP characters can opt to only play versus other PvE/PvP characters, or also compete with PvP only characters.

PvP only characters can only fight with/against other PvP character and those PvE/PvP characters that have opted to fight with the PvP only character. (PvP only character should have an option to not be teamed with PvE/PvP characters should they so with)

with a setup like this. the PvE only side of the game can be modified to suit the PvE players without hurting the hardcore PvP'ers.

there is still the option there for those PvP players who like to play the PvE game and compete with there PvE character (they of course will have to work for there skills/runes/upgrades. which alot of poeple actually like doing)
to get in there and compete with other hardcore players

PvE only characters dont have to worry about the gameplay being changed in order to make it easier for PvPers to get what they want

PvP only characters have every option available to them. and so does the opposing team. returning the game to a player/team skill based game.

what do you think?

I am looking for sane and calm suggestions as to what you think about this idea, especially those who only PvP. but keep it nice please!

Mimu · Jun 17, 2005, 10:41 AM // 10:41

I, personally hate the idea of UAS/UAR..even though I am going to be doing a lot of PvP in the near future.

If you allow someone to create a character with every ability from the first time you install the game, people will enter into PvP with absolutely no knowledge of the game.

Personally, I think the best idea would be this:

If a player completes the game (Doing EVERY mission, not skipping straight to Ascension.) they unlock every skill from their primary profession for PvP.

This would (hopefully) give players at least a little knowledge of the game, before they attempt the Hall of Heroes.

The PvPers would complain..but no matter what happens, somebody is going to be unhappy.

It would not be too much effort if they got their guild to run them through the missions, and it's not like they're THAT difficult for someone who is good enough to do some real PvP.

I suppose it would still be a little bit of 'grind', but there is grind in all games..I suppose it is required in order to keep people playing.

However, compared to most online games (Excluding FPS, which this game is clearly not.) the grind in Guild Wars is minimal, and asking for a button to unlock everything in the game right from the start is kind of unreasonable..

Anyway..Rant over:

Your idea sounds like it would be separating PvP and PvE, which is not a good thing..

I doubt people would really choose the PvE/PvP option if they could just get every skill with no effort (A sad fact) so the other arenas would most likely be deserted..

Sekkira · Jun 17, 2005, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Agree, this is not too much of a good idea. It's making that semi transparent line between PvE and PvP very solid, on top of that, it divides the community into three camps. The game was meant to be for all, no division. I'd speculate that if it were implemented, it would tear the game apart.

Also, Mimu is right about people being unhappy. No matter what decision ArenaNet makes to address this 'problem' or ignore it completely, you're going to have unhappy people. The problem is I don't think they as a company have quite got the idea of how to deal with these people. And that's telling them to suck it up. ArenaNet can't make a game that focuses on each and every persons gaming needs and they shouldn't try either. I'm happy with the way the game is now (A few things I'd like changed, but if they aren't or going to be yet, No biggie, I can wait/live with it.). I'm just hoping I like the game when they get it to the perfect model they invisioned originally. It will be a very sad day if I have to put this game on the shelf.

Schorny · Jun 17, 2005, 11:20 AM // 11:20

You would divide all players into 3 parts. So you effectively reduced the people you could play with.

You get nearly 3 separate games.

Paladin_Adoni · Jun 17, 2005, 12:06 PM // 12:06

being a PvE only player perhaps im missing something, but I was under the impression that the community is already totally split down the middle. I dont remember actually meeting a hardcore PvPer in the PvE environment (I've probably seen one for a few seconds in a town just before they head off to do there grind thing. and I am sure one of those people i've had in the group that grabs a skill then leaves, or says nothing and rushes the whole mission were hardcore PvPers. I didnt actually meet them just saw them). the hardcore PvPers dont want to be in PvE (as far as I can understand from reading threads) they just want to do the arena and GvG stuff. they have there own community already of others who just want to PvP. at the moment though they are forced into PvE and bring with them a generally bad attitude thats not productive.

once these PvP hardcore people finally unlock everything, are they going to return to PvE? I highly doubt it.

for me. I would much prefer a small comunity of people who are there for the PvE experience rather than a large community full of people who hate the experience and dont want to be there.

I must be the only one...

john little · Jun 17, 2005, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

for me. I would much prefer a small comunity of people who are there for the PvE experience rather than a large community full of people who hate the experience and dont want to be there.

it's not a 'large community full of people who hate the experience', its a vocal minority voicing their opinions on the current system. Lots of moaning on websites by a couple of people does not mean they speak for the community at large. Most PvP'ers that are unlocking runes etc. do it without moaning about it, they simply see it as the logical thing to do. It is the players that can't be bothered to do that that moan (perhaps legitimately).

Splitting people apart is bad. You only have to look at the moaning by some players when the language districts were added on the EU servers - it became harder to find players in some of the less popular areas/languages. That created a whole new set of players unhappy - and that's the reason changing stuff has to be thought through carefully, a change that is good for some players will always be bad for others.

Jaythen Tyradel · Jun 17, 2005, 01:34 PM // 13:34

My idea for the PVP people about getting runes and skills and upgraes:

if they play a PVP only character..

thye start out with basic skills and options such as they have already
when they succesfully kill another player, thier reward is to unlock skills the person had used on them, or runes that person is wearing, or weapon upgrades that they were using.

The primary idea behind this is that if they want to play PVP only, it gives them the incentive to keep playing PVP to unlock skills, runes, upgrades without "the grind"(as some have called it) of playing PVE to get stuff they want for PVP.

Feel free to nitpick...just running an idea by you.

Celes Tial · Jun 17, 2005, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Oh my god... several people already disagreed with your idea, and pointed out why, somewhere else, and you just make a new thread?

Will you keep on making new threads until, through lucky coincidence, the first 5 posters agree?!?

...walks away, shaking her head in mild amusement.

Keesa · Jun 17, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin_Adoni

being a PvE only player perhaps im missing something, but I was under the impression that the community is already totally split down the middle. I dont remember actually meeting a hardcore PvPer in the PvE environment (I've probably seen one for a few seconds in a town just before they head off to do there grind thing. and I am sure one of those people i've had in the group that grabs a skill then leaves, or says nothing and rushes the whole mission were hardcore PvPers. I didnt actually meet them just saw them). the hardcore PvPers dont want to be in PvE (as far as I can understand from reading threads) they just want to do the arena and GvG stuff. they have there own community already of others who just want to PvP. at the moment though they are forced into PvE and bring with them a generally bad attitude thats not productive.

once these PvP hardcore people finally unlock everything, are they going to return to PvE? I highly doubt it.

for me. I would much prefer a small comunity of people who are there for the PvE experience rather than a large community full of people who hate the experience and dont want to be there.

I must be the only one...

As others have said, please don't judge an entire community by its most vocal members. Not everyone has the same opinion or background. And not everything is so black and white as PvE v. PvP. I use my PvE character in PvP and enjoy both aspects of the game. But it makes me a liability in some ways to my guild because I don't have access to other classes, skills, and runes, which means my ability to experiment with builds is very limited, but I'm fortunate that they can work around me.

Not every guild or player has that luxury, and that is the concern of some of the competitive PvPers you hear on these boards--they would like the ability to remain competitive through versatility and adaptability, without having to replay portions of the game 3 times and then have to find the runes besides. It is a major time sink for many people that detracts from the reasons they love this game.

They don't necessarily want isolation or separation--just that when they've completed the game, they don't want to have to do it again and again and again to compete in PvP. That's all.

(official disclaimer: this is not an endorsement of the UAU system)

Paladin_Adoni · Jun 17, 2005, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celes Tial

Oh my god... several people already disagreed with your idea, and pointed out why, somewhere else, and you just make a new thread?

Will you keep on making new threads until, through lucky coincidence, the first 5 posters agree?!?

...walks away, shaking her head in mild amusement.

before jumping to conclusions you must first take a look at the time I opened the threads in relation to the amount of time before I got a reply.

and this and the other thread you have posted in are not the first time I've posted about this, but it never got any replies. so I decided to post it on more than one forum to see if I could get feedback. as it happens I got feedback finally on BOTH forums.

think first hey

and as far as how I judge the community, most of my opinion of the community at the moment is based on my experience within the game.
people capturing skills and leaving. when asked (if they respond at all) say they just needed the skill for there PvP character) and most who rush through levels also say the same thing. Id much MUCH prefer a community without these players who ofter ruin a mission by leaving / leeroying when no one has energy. the general lack of kindness...

theclam · Jun 17, 2005, 03:34 PM // 15:34

I don't understand how splitting up PvE and PvE/PvP would help them fix any problems. The only fixes that I can see this enable would be balance fixes, but for the most part, balance isn't a major issue in this game.

Celes Tial · Jun 17, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin_Adoni

before jumping to conclusions you must first take a look at the time I opened the threads in relation to the amount of time before I got a reply.

and this and the other thread you have posted in are not the first time I've posted about this, but it never got any replies.

You had gotten 3-4 replies all of which disagreed with you, and gave arguments / explanations for doing so, by the time you decided to create a new thread here. 3-4 replies doesnt look like 'ignoring' to me.

If you need feedback in under 24 hours and feel ignored if you dont get soandso many replies in soandso much time, it just makes you look a little odd.

arredondo · Jun 17, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

You don't need three types, only two. It's the only two that the serious PvP players have been begging for since the retail release: include a universal unlock option (with all the good stuff ) in PvP!

That way there is almost never a reason for Arena.net to change the PvE gameplay because if you make your PvP character the normal way through questing, you accept that you are taking the long, "scenic" route to creating the PvP character you ultimately want.

If you have no interest in PvE, you'd have an option that's as intuitive as picking a character in your favorite fighting game (there's no limiting of skills in those competitive games).

If you have no interest in PvP, then your precious PvE experience is left alone from these major adjustments in gameplay to accomodate the frustrated PvP'ers.

The perfect solution, no matter how they do it, is to let PvE peeps play how they want, and PvP peeps play how they want (get rid of Attribute refund points for pure PvP BTW, but disallow Attr. changes in matches). Each camp should be able to ignore the other side completely and have a fun, fun time. For those who like both, you have to deal with the PvE pace to get more out of PvP.

Right now it is a great imbalance towards pure PvE players. They can ignore PvP and be happy, but pure PvP players can't ignore PvE. Arena.net... THIS is the area you should fix more than any other.

The one thing Guild Wars does NOT have in common with any other competitive software product that wants to be popular (sports, fighting games, online-FPS, etc.) is that it FORCES you to get to the starting line of having a complete character by putting in 50-100 hours of non-competitive gameplay.

I'm a hardcore fighting game fan, and as much as I loved going through PvE the first (and ONLY) time, I want to play PvP competitvely without grinding through more unecessary repetitive hoops. There aren't any good adventure games that force you to replay the entire thing again and again... absolutely ludicrous. Give me all access please.

Paladin_Adoni · Jun 18, 2005, 06:31 AM // 06:31

I came up with this idea, only because the Unlock Everything seemed to be taken rather badly. I have no problems with the UE option. infact it will do to the commonuty what my suggestion will do with much less effort.

GET the ignorant a$$whole PvPers out of PvE (now dont jump on me. there are plenty of great PvPers out there... Im sure....)

but everyone flamed the crud out of those UAS threads so I thought I would offer my different look at it.

OH and for bleeding sake. I opened the guildhall thread. waited a few minutes (doing OTHER things in my life) and opened this thread. so please... stop making sh1t up

Synncial77 · Jun 18, 2005, 01:13 PM // 13:13

The setup should be this:

1. The "standard" server setup how it is now: PvE characters that can make their way to PvP through questing and PvP only Characters with access to unlocked stuff from PvP. Thus, the system that is currently in place.

2. A 'PvP only "Unlock all skills"/weapons/runes' server that only has access to other PvP only UAS characters for PvP battles AND on their own seperate ladder. That means no trades or anything. The only exception to this would be that you could still chat with everyone who is playing.

Now, I'm going to ask this right up front...why the hell not? I'm not really into the whole PvP thing myself and even I can see why this is a good idea. This will make the people who entered this game thinking that they could enter PvP competitions from day one with their selected class combo and start playing based on pure skill and nothing else (this includes the skill of choosing the best 8 skills and the best weapon and the best rune sets to fight against other people who have chosen their best sets).

This system wouldn't affect the "standard" server setup at all (well, except get rid of a bunch of the hardcore PvPers that make HoH so impossible to reach).

Personally, I enjoy working my way through the game to get my skills and loot. But, many don't. Many wanted (and were led to believe) to be able to pop open guild wars, create a custom character, and go into battle without having to "waste" any time doing the PvE content. Let's just let them have their own little area.