Curse

BaleFire · Jun 17, 2005, 10:46 AM // 10:46

i thnk the main problem is that cristianity ether draws ppl or push them away.
pushing ppl away makes them ether sad or angry. just look how many different groups/sects you got within the same faith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

Are you a Christian? Then consider Servants of the Son for your guild!

you just declared to the whole gw community in one zone that ure a cristian, and u basicly dont want ppl thats not of ure faith in ure clan.
if ppl dont like cristianity to start with u just gave them additional reasons to not like you.

i wouldnt respond to any global calls like ures but it does provoke me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Than

Relgion isn't the basis of all wars. Hasn't been the basis of most wars.

the 1st commandment:
You shall have no other gods before Me.

religion dont spark wars???
its pure ignorance to belive a faith with that attitute dont spark wars.
maybe u should buy a history book.
ure response to Gedscho tells us alot about you, since the quote u took of him its all true.
Than, if ure a cristian, you just broke the 3rd commandment.

interesting note:
2nd commandment:
'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

from one perspective, games is idolizing ureself.

iam an ateist btw, should be obvius.
you can have whatever faith you want in my oppinion, as long as it dont affect me, or the things i care about.

GraceAlone · Jun 17, 2005, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Just for the record I am still following this thread, but like several people have mentioned, I'm surprised it hasn't been moved

For myself I'm not looking to share my faith with every single PuG that I group with and don't plan on saying, "Hi, nice to be a part of the group, do you all know Jesus? No, then you're going to hell." That's not effective, but also just pushes people away. But if we have gotten to be friends and know/understand each other, then I'll bring religion. I know a lot of people try and preach at you and all I can say is, sorry. I know my brothers and sisters don't always do the right thing.

Genos · Jun 17, 2005, 11:17 AM // 11:17

I’m Christian as well, and I got to say - this gets ridiculous. Most people I have met/know on the net seem to have no problem with my religion. Sadly however there will always be jerks. In which case I can have a very interesting debate – sarcasm is an art *evil grin*

As to some of the points raised in this thread - yes, Christians have been bloody idiots in the past. More specifically, the crusades and the whole medieval deal. That was corruption and sorts of nasty things in best high style, hidden behind the facade of being religious... or that is my view of it.

However to the topic at hand - I see how people can be offend by it, but to be honest I wouldn’t fuss too much. Personally id is far more irritated with the people who stand on the corners of streets shouting that the end of the world is coming... repent and such.

all GraceAlone is doing is to say that a Christian guild is looking for Christians, or people who don’t mind Christians to join - nothing more, nothing less.

However since I have no social skills what so ever this post should cause some interesting responses.

Willy Rockwell · Jun 17, 2005, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Speaking as a Christian American I want to say that I escaped into this game to avoid the unspeakable horror that is being perpetrated upon the world by my fellow "Christians" in the US. Keep your religion in the voting booth...haven't you done enough damage?

Zeroed · Jun 17, 2005, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicro Mancer

I know it was a long time ago, but that Godwin's Law link is just so amazingly true.

I agree

. Now all we need is a version for UAS:

In a thread on a guildwars forum that contains a legitimate complaint the probability of someone mentioning UAS approaches one

For the record, I have no problem with christians when they have no problem with me and this kind of thing is definitely ok as far as I'm concerned. People complaining that real life shouldnt be in-game are being a little naive; how may times have you seen people role-playing in guildwars?

Its also a bit silly to critisise christians for playing GW - noone would really seriously worship dwayna in real life so I don't see that there is a contradiction there and the monsters arent real so what does it matter if they virtually kill them?

Fantras · Jun 17, 2005, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Ok, I read the whole freakin thread. First off, he has all the rights in the world to be surrounded by like minded individuals. I believe that's how we all formed and exist in our current guilds. Whether it's Elite type players, just kick back fun players, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Old people, Young people, women, men, etc. You get the point. Wanting to be around people who are like you is certainly not any type of descrimination.

Christians who tout signs saying, "God hates fags!" are not Christians no more than Osama is a true Muslim, in my opinion. Yes, the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin and those that practice it are sinners. However, it also teaches to love and try to protect the sinners in the world by showing them a better way, not chastising them as devils and berating them from a street corner. Would Christians like to change homosexuals back to heterosexuals? Certainly. Do Christians hate homosexuals? No, not "true" Christians. In my mind, a Christian would treat a homosexual with deference, maybe dropping a line about how the Bible sees it, but that's about it. Same thing would go for someone with an alcohol or drug problem, who were cheating on their wives, etc, I would imagine, in the Utopian world in my mind, that none of the above would be treated differently by a Christian as there are a number of Christians who are affected by the above problems themselves.

So, in short, do what you want with your guild. If you get berated by people in general chat, ignore it as best as you can. Do not stop, however, recruiting in the ways you have posted, because it seems a very fair request to me. People don't like seeing religion in games? Tough. I don't like seeing a flacid penis drawn on my mini map. But I deal with it and I don't bitch. Am I a Christian? Yes I am. Am I a perfect Christian, far from it. I drink, I cuss, I make dirty jokes (not on the mini-map :P). However, I see myself as a genuinely good person, and that's the most important thing any one person can be, all religion aside.

*Edit: Also, because you are a monk who casts a spell called "Dwayna's Kiss" you are not worshipping them. That argument was way way flawed. One more time: It's Not Real Life

Nicro Mancer · Jun 17, 2005, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Fantras, i couldn't have put it better myself

GraceAlone · Jun 17, 2005, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Amen Fantas, thanks for the post!

smitty-gw · Jun 17, 2005, 12:53 PM // 12:53

My $ 0.02.

I am a Roman Catholic American. Nobody on GW cares.
I am also considered a Christian. Nobody on GW cares.

I thought Christianity transcends multiple religious sects. That Christianity or being a Christian meant following the teachings of Christ as written in the New Testament of the Bible.

Follow Christ's Golden Rule and your on the path to salvation:

1) Love God the Almighty
2) Love thy neighbor as you love yourself.
Basically, its treat others as you wish to be treated.

Now true Christians are generally nice people, right. So why don't you just recruit friendly cooperative people? If I wanted to join and I was a Muslim would I have to lie about my faith to get in? If I was honest would you discriminate against me and deny acess to your guild?... It seems silly.

This is a virtual world with its own set of rules, history, theology etc. In my opinion, real life religion has no place here.

If you continue to recruit as you do, you will continue to be ridiculed by some. This is after all an anonymous internet community.

I personally take no offence to your recruiting ways nor would I waste my time condemning you in any way, but if your surprised about some of the responses you get online, then your naivete is a much bigger problem than the hostile attitudes you are experiencing.

Get over it. Didn't Christ teach to turn the other cheek when slapped??

Peace

Nicro Mancer · Jun 17, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

I don't think that Gracealone would have completely barred someone from joining their guild if they believed in a religeon other than christianity, but if they are going to talk about the bible, when you are in fact a jedi (yes, in england at least this is a real religeon) - then you probably wouldn't be particuarly interested in what a christian had to say about chapter 2 verse 5 of leviticus. I think that wat Gracealone was saying by "are you chrisatian?" is that you would probably get more out of the guild and find it more interesting if you were a christian, as opposed to a jedi.

GraceAlone · Jun 17, 2005, 01:02 PM // 13:02

I'm not niave by any means, and yes Jesus did teach to turn the other cheek. However my surprise was the sheer volume of annimosity that I received. I expect people to say mean and hateful things about Christians, that comes with the territory, but again it was the amount that surprized me.

Eclectic · Jun 17, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Know that while I took a bit of ironic liberty with your situation I am not unsympathetic. You sound like a person I'd group with in the game without a problem, even if I knew your guild name and purpose. I had no problem with your attempt to recruit nor the method you used to do it. The thread had gone way past that into a referendum on religion to some extent and it's a subject I think about in these turbulent times.

Ultimately I just want people to live and let live, mind their own business and not be so quick to point a finger at someone else (which is also a very Christian principle)

I was once a Christian, and studied the Bible for years. I believe a good Christian will show you what Jesus did for him, not tell him until the proper time. I believe a good Christian will love anyone even if they detest things they stand for. If Christ is really part of you and the driving force of your life (generic you, not specifically you) then we should see something different about you than the normal person. Unfortunately I've had my fill of seeing professed Christians engaging in dirty politics, hatred, and all manner of things totally against their faith. So I speak up from time to time, hoping to create an atmosphere where people can talk and grow.

I'll shut up now.

smitty-gw · Jun 17, 2005, 01:25 PM // 13:25

So you feel more people than you expected in the GW community are anti-Christian?

Christianity is top 3 in the world in membership. On the GW US servers it is probably real high as well. Methinks you were just being hyper-sensitive and started a nice long thread which you keep monitoring and an enjoying this debate a hell of a lot more than the offence you took to religious bashing by 12-year olds who need a good spanking more than another cathecism class.

Religion is a volatile topic, as you are well aware. That's why it is misplaced by being presented in this online game. I love Christ, the literary and historical figure. I even believe he was much more than a man, but who cares what I think.

Your surprise is really no surprise to me. Tucked away in Phoenix AZ will do that to a person, especially if one is young and not well traveled as you come across to me. This is not meant as an insult, just my perception.

In summation, you do seem like a nice person and I estimate that I would enjoy playing this game with you. I run into people like yourself all the time online, regardless of their religious denomination. Please rise above the low brow-mentality you will undoubtably encounter from time to time and do not post threads like this again just for attention and sympathy.

Peace

Diplo · Jun 17, 2005, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Are Necromancers alowed in a Christian guild?

GraceAlone · Jun 17, 2005, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Smitty, young can be a relative thing. I'm 26, married 6 years, two kids (3 years and 6 months). I have my bachelors in Biblical Studies and I am studying for my Masters in Divinity. My reasons for wanting to start a Christian guild is because of the community aspect of the game. It's a great place to meet other people (Christian or otherwise) and a chance to share with people I consider friends. Maybe I was being over sensitive, but when people (and there were several) whisper/all chat me saying that I'm all sorts of evil and hateful things, then I do what I always do. Pray about it, then seek the advise of others. GWG, to me, is my GW home. I don't visit any other forums/sites and feel that the community here is great, so I have been encouraged by many of the posts here. I also have gotten some good advice/ideas and have talked with my guild mates. Also I keep tabs on the discussion because it is just that, a discussion. I want to see what people think, and if the mods are not happy with the thread or where it is at, then they are more than welcome to close the thread, move it, or delete. I won't be offended

Keesa · Jun 17, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diplo

Are Necromancers alowed in a Christian guild?

Ha, that's great

Than · Jun 17, 2005, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

the 1st commandment:
You shall have no other gods before Me.

religion dont spark wars???
its pure ignorance to belive a faith with that attitute dont spark wars.
maybe u should buy a history book.
ure response to Gedscho tells us alot about you, since the quote u took of him its all true.

Lets try some reading comprehension shall we? I said religion didn't start all wars. Ok. All. Do you understand that word? ALL. I didn't say ANY. So shut up and sit down and trying read what others posted once in a while instead of spouting off BS.

And my response was the Synthos not Gedscho. Try some freaking reading once in a while. Just because I posted after him doesn't mean I was replying to him. It was a busy thread and people were cross posting, which is why I quoted Synthos in my reply. BECAUSE I WAS REPLYING TO HIM. I wasn't replying to Gedscho. Why should I? He was stating his opinion, hes intitled to that. But Synthos was spouting off BS.

I say again, Not all wars were started by Relgion. Hell not most wars.

And I pose this quest again, was Catholic Europe Sans the Crusades one big lovefest? No! Humans are warlike and all around jackasses and they are going to be so with or without religion. Most of the time inspite of religion.

Quote:

Than, if ure a cristian, you just broke the 3rd commandment.

Yes I did. Just because I'm christian doesn't mean I am perfect. Just 'cause I screw up every now and then doesn't make me hipocritical in my faith. Please, some people get off on trying to catch Christians sinning for some reason. Some how think its gonna "Take 'em down a peg." Please.

I would also like to add there are variations in the numbering and interpritation of the Ten Commandments by the various religions and sects. And I forone down consider calling out the lords name we you are confounded by someones stupidity taking it in vain.

Mountain Man · Jun 17, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

Jesus did teach to turn the other cheek.

Few people realize that this is not a command for us to accept abuse and become human walking mats. Rather, it was a form of peaceful protest intended to shame the other person.

In the Ancient near east culture, placing the back of your hand on someone was an insult and placing an open hand on them was a sign of honor. If someone struck you with his fist, it was almost certainly with the back of his hand. By turning your cheek, you would be inviting him to strike you with the front of his hand. It would shame your assailant to realize that the only way he could continue to strike you would be to show you some manner of honor. His shame would be all the more poignant when he realized you did nothing to deserve being hit in the first place.

Similiarly, the command that if someone sues you for your cloak, give him your tunic also is along the same lines. Picture the scene: two men are in court. One man is literally suing another for the shirt on his back. So the defendant procedes to strip off all his clothes and hand them to his accuser. So there is his accuser, holding the defendant's clothes while the defendant stands naked before the court. This would place the accuser in a very awkward position and expose him to shame for the mere fact that he even tried to sue someone for the clothes they were wearing in the first place.

It can really help one understand the Bible when they are familiar with the honor/shame context within which it was written. Tektonics.org is an excellent resource for studying historical Christianity.

Garric · Jun 17, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

You know, being a religious fanatic trying to make a guild for people who are only Christian usually isn't a good idea to advertise in a local chat channel.

Bringing religions into a GAME is a bad idea that will create conflicts, you should have known better, and now you do. I don't want religious wars inside of the game, I don't want to hear about Jesus every time I play (And I have been in parties where players won't just STFU about Jesus.). There ARE people who don't share your faith, face it.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 17, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandardAI

When I think of christians I usually think of people who want to vote against anything to do with gay rights, want to convert everyone to their own "one true religion", are condescending, and the people who elected our current president. Atheists are certainly not a rare demographic within gamers, I wouldn't doubt a lot of them play online games to avoid christians/america/reality because let's face it, a virtual world can be a lot better than the real one if you're a minority that society is against.

I understand your pain. For what it's worth, those people are not considered Christians by Jesus' teachings, but rather hypocrites - much like the ancient Pharisees.
Consider it the same as if a group of atheists was going about making asses of themselves and basically dragging all atheists through the mud. Same situation.
Believe it or not, there is a large body of sane, rational people in the U.S. that jsut happen to believe in God, morals and ethics.
We just aren't outspoken about it or trying to gain political clout.

Regards,

Talesin