Curse

Dreamsmith · Jun 16, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Oh bother...here we go on the crazy train....
Well, as is so fondly quoted on the EQ2 forums:

"In before the lock."

Actually, all things considered, this thread has been remarkably civilized. More likely it'll just get moved to Off-Topic...

Cap'n Hoek · Jun 16, 2005, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Re-rail it.

I really don't see what the big deal is. They want a guild of like-minded individuals to play with. How is it any different from any other guild who wants like-minded individuals as members? How does it affect anyone who doesn't want to be a part of it?

Lunarbunny · Jun 16, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

I have to say I'm quite Atheist, but that's my personal choice. I wouldn't mind the recruitment myself, as long as it's not the stuff you get on your local Christian channel ("Send us money or God will smite thee" kind of crap).
I was thinking that you should be ready to take some serious crap if you lose a Guild vs. Guild battle. I've been in a random-team arena and just for losing we got "the n*ggers got hung" from some asshole on the other team. Add religion to the losing team, and an insult from the winning team is going to be a lot worse (not to say that all winning teams insult, just that the ones that do will think of some really bad things to say to you).
Good luck on beating down the 13-year-olds who can't find anything better to do than swear at a person every chance they get.

Siran Dunmorgan · Jun 16, 2005, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Amazing.

This thread has gone on for nine pages, and no one has used the words "Dwayna", "Melandru", "Balthazar" or "Grenth".

How do Christian—or Judaic, or Islamic—Guilds justify their petitions for favor to the gods of Tyria, in view of the strictures against venerating gods other than the God of Abraham?

Is it possible to play Guild Wars completely though without supplicating at least one pagan deity?

Edit: Yes. But you have to include at least one non-(Jew|Christian|Muslim) in the party, so that that person can be the one to petition the gods for enty into the Underworld or Fissure of Woe.

—Siran Dunmorgan

Synthos · Jun 16, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthos

Hehe.. i wonder if people are upset because you have to kneel to the Guild Wars false gods, like Balthazar and Dwana.

Yeah i did

see

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 16, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

People espousing true christian belief have no place in a game where murder and carnage is the norm.
It's entertainment, its pretend, but when you begin introducing real practices into it, it ceases to be a game. Is your belief in christianity a charade?
I should think not.
If you seek to profess your belief, go to Old AScalon, Surmia and Rin, admonishing all to cease their violent ways, turn the other cheek, and love the Charr as you would your brother...
Hardly a method of roleplay that would attract or sustain a body of followers.

Again, real life religion is seriously out of place in an otherwise imaginary world.
Perhaps we should discuss the real world implications of King Adelbern's (An obvious republican) vendetta against the Krytans (obviously the EU) to his hotheaded and passionate son? (an obvious democrat)
Nay says I - that way leads to insanity.

It's a game.
Can all reasonable and sane people agree to maintain it as such?

Talesin

Ardus Shadowmane · Jun 16, 2005, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Thank you to everyone on this page who has managed to drag this thread (at least temporarily) back on topic. I can't believe this isn't in the off-topic/absurd thread yet!

As to an on-topic post...it's simple. If a guild wants to advertise to Christian players, then great! Good for you. Theme guilds are always fun. If you're a bunch of ascended players wanting to make an ascended guild, also good! If you want to be an all-ranger, all-warrior, or all monk guild (declaring yourselves the Red Cross guild), also good. There is no difference between any of these, pure and simple. Those of you crying discrimination about the OP forming a guild of Christians had better be doing the same thing about every type of theme guild. If not, you're the ones discriminating.

That being said, congrats on lasting as long as you have and still being in the community forum! LOL. Only a couple hours of work left before I can head home. Yay!

Lunarbunny · Jun 16, 2005, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

...when you begin introducing real practices into it, it ceases to be a game...

I didn't see him mentioning that he'd be introducing "real practices;" I see that he just wants to form a guild of like minded people.
And why do you give a sh*t anyway? If they do it, they do it. They're not bothering anybody, it doesn't appear that he or his friends are preaching, and I'm sure they'd do anything special at their guild hall. If you take a look, the only thing he was really originally mentioning was that people were being assholes to him because he wanted to recruit for a guild of Christians.
Neither you nor your peers can tell him what he can and can't do. It's up to ArenaNet to decide. _They_ are the law in this game.

Nicro Mancer · Jun 17, 2005, 12:02 AM // 00:02

I know it was a long time ago, but that Godwin's Law link is just so amazingly true.

Beqxter · Jun 17, 2005, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Wow, I've been hard pressed to catch up to the end of this thread, it's on fire!

My 2 cents, and they've been said before: the guy was NOT proselytizing! He was NOT preaching! That would be expounding his beliefs in the All channel and attempting to persuade you to follow them. If he WAS doing that, I would agree that it is inappropriate. All he was doing was looking for other people who already shared his belief system for some harmless fun. I don't see anything wrong with that.

And I'm Buddhist. See pages 1-8 for the best explanation I can find why...

ManadartheHealer · Jun 17, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by deolmstead

And I'm Buddhist.

That's excellent...I tried Buddhism for awhile, and it was pretty good. But for some reason I cannot explain, it wasn't quite what I was looking for. It sits on the edge of philosophy and religion, but I needed something more to the "philosophy" side

Mountain Man · Jun 17, 2005, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthos

If he did hed probably be a monk

Could you imagine playing PVP against Jesus

Hed probably win

An athlete once said, "If Jesus was a football player, he'd play fair, he'd play clean, and he'd put the guy across the line on his butt."

Lief · Jun 17, 2005, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Ahh...the good ole religion thread >_<

DrSLUGFly · Jun 17, 2005, 03:51 AM // 03:51

yup, nothing seems to stir up hate and anger like a discussion about god. I didn't read all 9 pages, too many... and GraceAlone prolly isn't still following this. But if he/she is, I'd like to add a few comments on why he/she gets attacked in game.

1-we (humans) are inherently very insecure and inherently like to have power over others.
2-we (gamers) are inherently introspective and when insecure, the insecurities run deeper
3-no religion is as intrusive and interfering as Christianity is. By its very nature Christianity is an offensive religion.
4-you are trying to share your faith, that is your right and I hope you have the opportunity. I believe in things far differently than you but I certainly enjoy the opportunity to share ideas with like minded people. It's important in any community. However, take a look at your guild recruitment calls, my experience with christianity (plenty) makes me feel like you're probably trying to spread the word via allchat disguised as a guild recruit call.
5-nullifying number 4, and in combination with 1,2 and 3, I've seen quite a few good people online, but I've seen more idiots (thankfully, most of them not in Guildwars). In all likelihood, if you were even to say "recruiting for all christian guild, whisper me" you would get loads of grief from people who can't stand being weak in real life and need to be strong and a bully online.

I'm an atheist and I both despise and love christianity (I despise it as an active movement, I love it as a mythology and cultural cornerstone). However I have nothing against believers of any faith. Good luck with your recruitments and as was said, you'll probably have to suffer for a while. If you invite 4 friends then you have a 5 man christian guild. If each of them can hook up only 2 other christian friends you'll then have a 10 man christian guild. Spread it out among the districts and in real life and you'll soon find enough people are in your guild that you don't even need to bother with all chat except for when trading (since traders never know how to use the trade channel

)

Weezer_Blue · Jun 17, 2005, 07:37 AM // 07:37

I personally don't care. I'm an atheist, and I hate it when people try to convert me as I walk down the street. I'm not going to ba a hypocrite and turn around and assault christians for making a christian guild. Just as long as you're not like that guy who wanted pentagrams removed from the game because he didn't understand their history very well and thought it was offensive, who cares.

Taphoo · Jun 17, 2005, 08:20 AM // 08:20

LOL.
I can tell the OP why I would give him grief. You are inserting a Reality Check into a *game*. I don't have to deal with "Dwayna" worshippers in Real Life - I do have to deal with "Christians".
Here is a story of a typical "Christian" in my country (USA):

A pleasant man was being tailgated by a stressed out woman on a busy
boulevard. Suddenly, the light turned yellow, just in front of him. He did the
right thing, stopping at the crosswalk, even though he could have beaten the red
light by accelerating through the intersection. The tailgating woman hit the
roof, and the horn, screaming in frustration as she missed her chance to get
through the intersection.

As she was still in mid-rant, she heard a tap on her window and looked up
into the face of a very serious police officer. The officer ordered her to exit
her car with her hands up. He took her to the police station where she was
searched, finger printed, photographed, and placed in a holding cell.

After a couple of hours, a policeman approached the cell and opened the
door. She was escorted back to the booking desk where the arresting officer was
waiting with her personal effects.

He said, "I'm very sorry for this mistake. You see, I pulled up behind your
car while you were blowing your horn, flipping off the guy in front of you
and cussing a blue streak at him.

"I noticed the 'Choose Life' license plate holder, the 'What Would Jesus Do'
bumper sticker, the 'Follow Me to Sunday-School' bumper sticker, and the
chrome-plated Christian fish emblem on the trunk. Naturally, I assumed you had
stolen the car."

If more of you actually gave more than lip-service to His teachings, perhaps the rest of us would not hate you quite so much.
Any clearer?

StandardAI · Jun 17, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

I just have a general question for the community and if this is the wrong forum I apologize and a mod can please move it

I have a guild that is for Christian and we use to share our faith in game (in an unintrusive way). But when posting to recruit in game or on other forums I have had nothing but slanderous, hateful, condemning, and all sorts of other very rude/degrading things said to me. I suppose my question/frustration is that the community (not GWG in general) is very hostile towards...people of faith lets say. Or is it just Christians?

Personally if there is a guild that wants to be Buddhist only, or muslim only, or old married men with 2 kids and a white dog only guilds, that's fine with me. I have no problem with that go right ahead, and if you are recruiting, more power to ya! I'll just turn off the local channel or move to another district if it is bothersome. I've only tried to recruit once so far and got the reactions mentioned above. I had one guy that even said he was going to report me to Anet...not sure on what grounds but...

Guess I just want to get other peoples opinions/thoughts/insights.

Thanks,
GraceAlone

When I think of christians I usually think of people who want to vote against anything to do with gay rights, want to convert everyone to their own "one true religion", are condescending, and the people who elected our current president. Atheists are certainly not a rare demographic within gamers, I wouldn't doubt a lot of them play online games to avoid christians/america/reality because let's face it, a virtual world can be a lot better than the real one if you're a minority that society is against.

=HT=Ingram · Jun 17, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Unfortunately it is a problem in Community style games. there are a lot of faith driven folks that really do just want to play and from time to time maybe do something faith oriented... I think that's great. However the masses of Agnostic or Simply RUDE people in the world is growing exponentially, so its expected to be seen in a game such as this... Trust me my Ignore list grows EVERYDAY... thankfully the chat filter blocks some language, but the badgering is just a bunch of uneducated children that don't care for anything or anyone... thus they are basically RUDE to anyone with some kind of conviction, or belief.

We have also seen a growing Racist trend with many people in game directed at the Koreans especially, because of tactics they choose to use during PvP and GvG matches... Face it folks, they are better then you, it has nothing to do with their race, its just a game and they know how to play it.

StandardAI · Jun 17, 2005, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

However the masses of Agnostic or Simply RUDE people in the world is growing exponentially, so its expected to be seen in a game such as this... Trust me my Ignore list grows EVERYDAY...

Hate breeds hate.

"At the risk of sounding ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by feelings of love." - Che Guavara

Navaros · Jun 17, 2005, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taphoo

If more of you actually gave more than lip-service to His teachings, perhaps the rest of us would not hate you quite so much.
Any clearer?

no, this is incorrect

Jesus himself said that any righteous man (or woman) who follows his teachings will be hated by the world. just like the original poster is having 9+ pages of hate-filled posts dumped upon him or her

if the world at large does not hate you and your viewpoints, you are not Christian. that is what Jesus has declared.

Jesus' teachings will never be "agreeable" to the world at large.

because man, in his natural state, is inherently evil. therefore, he will always default to the most evil ways of life and support that others do the same.

@original poster: i hope your Guild gets nice and huge. keep fighting the good fight and don't get intimidated by all the neverending anti-Christian hatemongering you have spit upon you.