Curse

Tuna · Jun 26, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

There's a couple things I wanted to add to this fiasco.

1. There is a lot of complaining about 'credibility' and the such. I am here with they word of my english teachers to spread the wisdom of making credible arguments! (I never though I would do this

) At my school we learn a little mechanism called 'PIE.' This stands for Point, Illustration, and Explaination. The words reveal much of the nature of the procedure, but I'll review them anyway:

Point: state the basis or subject of your argument ie: NEABLE USAS!!!!11

Illustration: provide quotes, statistics, or other proof to back up the previous claim ie: OMOGLO IT TAKES 1098410472 HORUS TO GET TEH ZKSILLS!!1

Explaination: explain how the above information is relevant and explain it. ie: oOMGOLO IT SOHULD ONLAY TAKE 1029 HOUOURS TO UNLCOKS

2. I currently have roughly 78% of the skills unlocked. I have every warrior, ranger, and monk skill and am missing an even distribution of skills among the last 3 proffessions (roughly 100 skills missing). To achieve this I have created four characters and played each at least to Ember Light Camp. This endeavour thus far has taken roughly 300 hours. It should be noted that I could have nearly finished unlocking all skills had I played smarter with my first 3 characters. Now on the to analysis of the one proffession complete unlock:

I used a monk for easy mission grouping and took elementalist as a secondary to ascend. I played through all the mission and finished ascencion in roughly 25 hours. Then I switched secondary and completed all skill quests. Then I proceded to finish the game and unlock all elites (for secondary). Then, using guildwarsguru's own handy skill database I purchased the remaining skills (again, for secondary). The entire process took 57 hours. When I finished I had a grand total of 4 extra skill points and about 250,000 experience. Even though the character is not at the 20,000 exp/level cap yet, it would take an insane amount of grind to get all the skills for the primary proffession as well.

So, those of you who claim one can unlock everything on 3 characters are fooling themselves. Unless you are extremely efficient at UW runs it will be faster to create another character to run through the missions with. I predict an average of 400 hours and 6 characters to acheive the equivalent of UAS. But it looks like you guys would rather put your nose to the grind stone for 400 hours than press a button and forget about it all. It is also important to note that while I beat the game and unlocked every skill for one class in 60 hours, many people boast times of over 100 and are nowhere near having all the skills for one proffession. If you're that person change 400 to 600+

Unfortunatley, this is but the tip of the iceberg. If you want to unlock all weapon upgrades (much less all prefect) you could spend months. Thanks to recent patches unlocking all runes will take years. Sounds fun! *turns on grinder*

edit:

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the reason the people in beta (i had my level 20 RP starting at Lions Arch) was because nobody could get to the level 20 status in a BWE to test how the higher level content worked

I leveled a character over several weekends eventually finished at 20. I also bought the platemail from ventaris at lvl 19 and had people ask me "how did you lose a lvl" Hah

ManadartheHealer · Jun 26, 2005, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

I am here with they word of my english teachers to spread the wisdom of making credible arguments! (I never though I would do this

) At my school we learn a little mechanism called 'PIE.' This stands for Point, Illustration, and Explaination

First, people won't listen to PIE; they won' listen to more rational arguments either

Second, everything school (public middle/high school that is; I assume you are not yet in college as you called your instructors "teachers" rather than "professors") gives you is basically crap that will never work in the real world. It simply won't cut it. Once you start to really experience life you'll understand

Next, while I do agree there is a little grind if you want to go crazy and unlock everything, they are currently fixing it with a "PvP unlocking system".

I suggest all comments and complaints are held until one week after the next update is released. We could then reflect on what the update helped, what problems it caused, and if it is suitable or not...but, who am I kidding, that will never happen; silly me

Tuna · Jun 26, 2005, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

First, people won't listen to PIE; they won' listen to more rational arguments either

Stupid people are abound and I am trying to ease the pain.

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Second, everything school (public middle/high school that is; I assume you are not yet in college as you called your instructors "teachers" rather than "professors")

Yes sir, I am in highschool.

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gives you is basically crap that will never work in the real world. It simply won't cut it. Once you start to really experience life you'll understand

Thank you for your philosophical statements about life and what will or will not work when it comes to writing. You have truely changed my life.

Quote:

Next, while I do agree there is a little grind if you want to go crazy and unlock everything, they are currently fixing it with a "PvP unlocking system".

I guess 400+ hours isn't a lot to everyone.

Quote:

I suggest all comments and complaints are held until one week after the next update is released. We could then reflect on what the update helped, what problems it caused, and if it is suitable or not...but, who am I kidding, that will never happen; silly me

I predict that the update won't help much, however I could be wrong. Only time will tell.

Good day to you, oh councillor or life.

Malchiel · Jun 26, 2005, 06:01 AM // 06:01

I enjoy the game. Play both PvE and PvP, and pretty good in both.

Beta tested this game too. It's even more than I expected from playing Beta. So I guess our opinion differs there.

Although the first one through the game was the most fun experience, going at it again with a different character is still fun.

Very different play style, and pre-sear always looks the best.

Personally I very much enjoy the recent patches.

Mr_Intangible · Jun 26, 2005, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Come on people dont turn these forums into something like the xplay forums over at g4tv.com : P. I agree that those who dislike it go those who love it indulge! Let My People Play!

Weezer_Blue · Jun 26, 2005, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Most of your credibility was washed away in a flood of cynicism, Tuna. You should portray those who disagree with you as 8 year olds playing CounterStrike with "1337 h4x0rz", as that is what your imitation sounded like.

BE|Dac · Jun 26, 2005, 06:15 AM // 06:15

8 year olds are cool and imho I would be much satisfied if I was a dev creating a game for all ages that 8 years olds could enjoy without sinking to horrible measures (extreme gore etc) in many respects GW is a great game for kids

and insulting people with age comparisons is utter hogwash.

These are games people and for enjoyment, the grind is not enjoyable to a large group of people, including 12 year olds.

Weezer_Blue · Jun 26, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Just generalizing, but the last time I heard 1337 sp34k and the word "0mGz0rZ" and it wasn't being used sarcistically, it was by either an 8 year old or some really immature old guy. I wonder what the age span on the game RuneScape is, cause that game is pure grind, plain and simple.

Tuna · Jun 26, 2005, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

Most of your credibility was washed away in a flood of cynicism, Tuna. You should portray those who disagree with you as 8 year olds playing CounterStrike with "1337 h4x0rz", as that is what your imitation sounded like.

I enjoy being cynical. I'm not sure if the rest of what you wrote is sarcastisc or not. The examples used are probably not appropriate but the truth of it is that I mispelled the first few words of my first example really bad so I decided to heck with it. One should also note that I used my own view point for the example.

edit: I got good at leet speak by making fun of people who use it in all seriousness in CS.

zman_acura · Jun 26, 2005, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Grind? what grind? I see no grind in guild wars i'm up near lvl 12 and so far it has been nothing but fun. Plus people say the game starts at lvl 20 so what the heck.

Any expansion they release i will buy hands down!

Divinitys Creature · Jun 26, 2005, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by zman_acura

Grind? what grind? I see no grind in guild wars i'm up near lvl 12 and so far it has been nothing but fun. Plus people say the game starts at lvl 20 so what the heck.

Any expansion they release i will buy hands down!

*cringe* you're at lvl 12 you just don't understand yet

Aaaaagh · Jun 26, 2005, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

yeah, anet being so responsive is the biggest load of crock I have ever heard.

1. To please PvE players they add in ale, lol, thats nothing at all. That is pure fluff.

2. The entire advertisement of the game was completely false in every way.

From Dynamic Terrain, to Skill, to no mindless repition, to fun pve.

3. Don't wait for them to fix grind because it will never be gone, they will not eliminate it. Fact. PvP quest rewards will take years and years alone to get all the skills.

4. the game is unbalanced, designed that way (PvE rewards your PVP skill)

5. The PVP maps offer no replayability just repitition, They have added nothing in the way of PVP offerings since 2 years ago in E34E, besides GVG.

6. The PvE is not replayable unless you have really low standards for games.

7. The huge ammount of customers they could have had where lost, the ones they have now will not be buying the expansion. Anet's reputation for actually delivering products that follow advertisement and box info is completely sullied in most eyes, and the HARDCORE gamers create word of mouth.

1. Ale isnt much, but its not nothing either. Its just very little, like the genitals of a mosquito!

2. Um, no. I think you been drinking too much ale!

3. What is grind to you is not to me, there is little to no grind in this game imo, and I have a good 200 hours in. I have completed the game 3x.

4. What do you mean the game is unbalanced? Are you talking about classes, group play or solo play? Or are you talking about PvP vs. PvE, which will never be balanced, thats just silly.

5. Yeah, PvP maps get boring fast. What's a solution, create another 30 maps? Sure, you wouldnt get bored as fast, but I bet you would still get bored. What more do you want added to PvP? How about PvP rewards, they just announced they were coming...

6. I find that rather offensive, I have gone through the game 3 times now, and I am trying to decide on my next character for the fourth. I enjoy the PvE alot, I find it much more fun than the PvP, and each class is so much different that I find the game to be varried each time I do it. Just cause you dont like it doesnt mean no one does.

7. Speaking as one of the hardest of hardcore gamers, I will be buying the expansion. Anet's rep has not been sullied, they have not 'lost' players. Yes, of course people have quit, but they are extremely successful and people are STILL buying the game.

And finally...your post is one big bitchfest, congrats to you. Here is my counterargument: Figure out how many hours you have played GW, since your a Beta, Im guessing this number is well into the hundreds. You paid fifty dollars for the game, probably. Divide the numbers of hours you played by fifty bucks.

Where else can you get entertainment that cheap? I bet there was a time when you really liked GW, I bet you played alot. Now your bored with it, thats what happens with video games...hardcore players know this. You move on, your time is up and there is nothing wrong with that. That's not how you decided to react though, instead you post some huge whine about a game you played for many many hours, and got tired of.

Im getting tired of GW myself, it happens. I wont go flame it though, its a great game and I would recommend it to anyone.

Weezer_Blue · Jun 26, 2005, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

1. Ale isnt much, but its not nothing either. Its just very little, like the genitals of a mosquito!

It was a failed attempt to fix the economy.

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2. Um, no. I think you been drinking too much ale!

"Join Date: May 2005". From that little tidbit, it's obvious that you didn't play in the beta, or not much of it, and I'm very doubtful that you went back and read every Fansite Friday before your joined, and every other little interview. And if you didn't notice, the entire beta was a marketting scheme, for the most part. It was just a marketting scheme with the small side effect of finding an occasional bug, but Alpha testers did that pretty well.

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3. What is grind to you is not to me, there is little to no grind in this game imo, and I have a good 200 hours in. I have completed the game 3x.

You're obviously a PvEer. And you have a low standard for games, if what the original poster said is true. What's not grind for you is grind for me. That's all I can say. I thought Guild Wars was not going to be World of Warcraft + Everquest's grinded mashed together and then subtract content. Based off the obviously false advertisement, I thought this game was grind free. So your perspective may be different, but there was no one to lead you to believe your perspective was correct before you bought the game.

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4. What do you mean the game is unbalanced? Are you talking about classes, group play or solo play? Or are you talking about PvP vs. PvE, which will never be balanced, thats just silly.

What he means is that even if both teams are perfectly evenly matched, then whoever has the most runes and otherwise important unlocks wins. On a side note, whoever has the most unlocks has more fun because they get more freedom with thier builds AND win constantly due to an unfair advantage earned through hours played.

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5. Yeah, PvP maps get boring fast. What's a solution, create another 30 maps? Sure, you wouldnt get bored as fast, but I bet you would still get bored. What more do you want added to PvP? How about PvP rewards, they just announced they were coming...

Yes, but if the original poster is correct, it will take about twice as long to earn things through PvP than it would just grinding for them through PvE. To me, this doesn't seem fun at all.

As for what could be added to PvP. A number of things. You must get it through your heads that PvPers don't like unlocking stuff. We like killing things, and then maybe doing a /dance over the body of it.
-More maps. Yes. It would add variety.
-More play styles! Probably the most important besides fixing the broken unlocking system. What do we get now? One sort of capture the flag thing which you get to play a single round in the Tombs if your crappy PUG is good enough to get that far, anihilation, that stupid Crag map where everyone camps - the deathmatch sort of thing, and the kill the guild leader thing. WOW!

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6. I find that rather offensive, I have gone through the game 3 times now, and I am trying to decide on my next character for the fourth. I enjoy the PvE alot, I find it much more fun than the PvP, and each class is so much different that I find the game to be varried each time I do it. Just cause you dont like it doesnt mean no one does.

For me, it was kind of fun the first time, as I hadn't seen the last 10 missions, and then the second time it sucked, and the third time it was mildly fun because I discovered how much I like smiters. The PvE has no replay value. All you do is: Run Forward, Kill Random Mob, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, (Rarely): Do minor strange objective, (Rarely): Kill easy boss. You're a PvEer. Not many PvPers like being forced to do all the missions 3 times, minimum. Hell, hardly any PvEers do. You're just wierd.

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7. Speaking as one of the hardest of hardcore gamers, I will be buying the expansion. Anet's rep has not been sullied, they have not 'lost' players. Yes, of course people have quit, but they are extremely successful and people are STILL buying the game.

Hey! Where are all those people who used to make intelligent conversation on these and many other forums during the beta?! What? They're GONE?! Oh! What could have made them leave?!

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And finally...your post is one big bitchfest, congrats to you. Here is my counterargument: Figure out how many hours you have played GW, since your a Beta, Im guessing this number is well into the hundreds. You paid fifty dollars for the game, probably. Divide the numbers of hours you played by fifty bucks.

And you're post is a giant bitching about bitching fest which only promotes more bitching and flaming. Congrats to you!

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Where else can you get entertainment that cheap? I bet there was a time when you really liked GW, I bet you played alot. Now your bored with it, thats what happens with video games...hardcore players know this. You move on, your time is up and there is nothing wrong with that. That's not how you decided to react though, instead you post some huge whine about a game you played for many many hours, and got tired of.

Where can I get entertainment that cheap? I dunno... Counterstrike, any RTS ever made, and so on don't have monthly fees. It's only shitty MMO's that have ever had them, to my knowledge. And to tell you the truth, RPG's suck. I only liked GW cause it was much different than the norm... But I can't say that anymore.

Yes. There was a time when I really liked GW. It's called "beta". When everyone liked it. Not just PvEers who were looking for a short bottlerocket thrill and then grinding for the rest of the time and thinking that they could rightfully have an unfair advantage in the PvP side of the game.

I got tired of this the second I got to Ascalon and realized the skill trader didn't have any skills I hadn't found in Presear already, where I used to be able to buy several elites, even Healing Hands.
And if I see one more person saying "stop whining", I'm going to blow their head off for provolking a continuous stream of flames. What are "whines", as you call them, which are known in the rational world as "complaints" a result of? They are a result of disappointment. So you have players that are complaining about how disappointed they are with the game, and then you have some asshole telling him to essentially STFU, as has already been written in this very thread. How do you think the "whiner" reacts? He gets pissed off because he had a legitimate complaint, and time after time, all he gets is an ear full of "quit bitching". Are you assholes addressing any of his points? What are you doing that is constructive? Then shut up!

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Im getting tired of GW myself, it happens. I wont go flame it though, its a great game and I would recommend it to anyone.

Awesome. A game that held your attention for all of... 2 months? From your hardcoreness and your love of PvE, and how you actually enjoyed all 3 journies through the most linear and repetitive missions I have ever seen, then perhaps you would like one of those grindfest games like WoW or Everquest, or whatever. But what do I know? I'm just one of those bitchy whiners that likes complaining even though nothing's wrong.

Aaaaagh · Jun 26, 2005, 11:54 AM // 11:54

The following quote is all fooked up, Im done with work and dont care to fix it right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

It was a failed attempt to fix the economy.

Do you really believe that beer was supposed to FIX the economy? I dont, I think it was a random thing thrown in for the fun of it. Anyhow, this is on the 'who cares' block.

"Join Date: May 2005". From that little tidbit, it's obvious that you didn't play in the beta, or not much of it, and I'm very doubtful that you went back and read every Fansite Friday before your joined, and every other little interview. And if you didn't notice, the entire beta was a marketting scheme, for the most part. It was just a marketting scheme with the small side effect of finding an occasional bug, but Alpha testers did that pretty well.

No, I didnt play Beta, never claimed to. Do you know what the purpose of a Beta is...its not marketing... The box doesnt lie, I have it, so this claim that the marketing is a hoax is completely false.

You're obviously a PvEer. And you have a low standard for games, if what the original poster said is true. What's not grind for you is grind for me. That's all I can say. I thought Guild Wars was not going to be World of Warcraft + Everquest's grinded mashed together and then subtract content. Based off the obviously false advertisement, I thought this game was grind free. So your perspective may be different, but there was no one to lead you to believe your perspective was correct before you bought the game.

You cant possibly know me well enough to say '[I'm] obviously a PvEer.' In most games (DAoC, SB, UO, etc) I have been drawn mostly to the PvP. I feel I am what most gamers are, balanced. I can enjoy the PvE, but then I look forward to the PvP. I enjoy the game that is GW, and I find that its PvP content is extremely lacking. I spent alot of time to get all my 'stuff' unlocked for PvP, only to get there and find its a dissappointment. No, thats not because I lose all the time. To me the game is really grind free, maybe because I was raised on UO and EQ, where only after years of play could you consider yourself anywhere close to any end...which there was not anyhow.

What he means is that even if both teams are perfectly evenly matched, then whoever has the most runes and otherwise important unlocks wins. On a side note, whoever has the most unlocks has more fun because they get more freedom with thier builds AND win constantly due to an unfair advantage earned through hours played.

Both teams are never perfectly matched first off. If your worried you dont have that perfect rune, buy it. If you need a skill..go get it, its not hard.

Yes, but if the original poster is correct, it will take about twice as long to earn things through PvP than it would just grinding for them through PvE. To me, this doesn't seem fun at all.

If it doesnt seem fun, dont play. Fun is the point here.

As for what could be added to PvP. A number of things. You must get it through your heads that PvPers don't like unlocking stuff. We like killing things, and then maybe doing a /dance over the body of it.
-More maps. Yes. It would add variety.
-More play styles! Probably the most important besides fixing the broken unlocking system. What do we get now? One sort of capture the flag thing which you get to play a single round in the Tombs if your crappy PUG is good enough to get that far, anihilation, that stupid Crag map where everyone camps - the deathmatch sort of thing, and the kill the guild leader thing. WOW!

For me, it was kind of fun the first time, as I hadn't seen the last 10 missions, and then the second time it sucked, and the third time it was mildly fun because I discovered how much I like smiters. The PvE has no replay value. All you do is: Run Forward, Kill Random Mob, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, (Rarely): Do minor strange objective, (Rarely): Kill easy boss. You're a PvEer. Not many PvPers like being forced to do all the missions 3 times, minimum. Hell, hardly any PvEers do. You're just wierd.

I'm wierd because I enjoy a game? Playing the game with a warrior, then a monk and then an elementalist was completely different. Sure, I know the story, I know where to go and what to do, but that just made it a bit easier to do again. If your a 'PvPer' like you claim, then why oh why are you playing this type of game, which requires PvE. Dont say because the adds said there wouldnt be PvE either, I have seen the adds, I have the box...

Hey! Where are all those people who used to make intelligent conversation on these and many other forums during the beta?! What? They're GONE?! Oh! What could have made them leave?!

This game has a moderate play life, I cant imagine many people not getting bored after two months. Again, I will ask the question, did you get your money's worth? If you have played the 100's of hours I expect you have, then that answer has to be yes.

And you're post is a giant bitching about bitching fest which only promotes more bitching and flaming. Congrats to you!

And you keep the ball rolling dont you? Im tired of posters who have played 100's of hours whining about how the game sucks. If it sucks, you wouldnt have played 100's of hours. Realize there is difference between a game sucking and a game getting boring, you people just cant seem to grasp this.

Where can I get entertainment that cheap? I dunno... Counterstrike, any RTS ever made, and so on don't have monthly fees. It's only shitty MMO's that have ever had them, to my knowledge. And to tell you the truth, RPG's suck. I only liked GW cause it was much different than the norm... But I can't say that anymore.

Well, you liked it once, you played alot...now your bored, move on, quit trolling.

Yes. There was a time when I really liked GW. It's called "beta". When everyone liked it. Not just PvEers who were looking for a short bottlerocket thrill and then grinding for the rest of the time and thinking that they could rightfully have an unfair advantage in the PvP side of the game.

I got tired of this the second I got to Ascalon and realized the skill trader didn't have any skills I hadn't found in Presear already, where I used to be able to buy several elites, even Healing Hands.
And if I see one more person saying "stop whining", I'm going to blow their head off for provolking a continuous stream of flames. What are "whines", as you call them, which are known in the rational world as "complaints" a result of? They are a result of disappointment. So you have players that are complaining about how disappointed they are with the game, and then you have some asshole telling him to essentially STFU, as has already been written in this very thread. How do you think the "whiner" reacts? He gets pissed off because he had a legitimate complaint, and time after time, all he gets is an ear full of "quit bitching". Are you assholes addressing any of his points? What are you doing that is constructive? Then shut up!

Stop whining. Stop whining.

Awesome. A game that held your attention for all of... 2 months? From your hardcoreness and your love of PvE, and how you actually enjoyed all 3 journies through the most linear and repetitive missions I have ever seen, then perhaps you would like one of those grindfest games like WoW or Everquest, or whatever. But what do I know? I'm just one of those bitchy whiners that likes complaining even though nothing's wrong.

Yep, loved Everquest, one of the best games ever developed. Sucked for PvP, but you cant have it all can you? Yep, your a whiner who has paid 50 bucks for hundreds of hours of enjoyment, now your bored and since you cant move on for whatever reason, your here, whining away.

Kaos the Korruptor · Jun 26, 2005, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Awesome. A game that held your attention for all of... 2 months? From your hardcoreness and your love of PvE, and how you actually enjoyed all 3 journies through the most linear and repetitive missions I have ever seen, then perhaps you would like one of those grindfest games like WoW or Everquest, or whatever. But what do I know? I'm just one of those bitchy whiners that likes complaining even though nothing's wrong.

Well judging by your apparent attitude towards people that like the PvE aspect of the game. I take you dont like to play through story lines. you simply like the hack and slash type game.

Well if you hadn't of guessed this game ISN"T a hack & slash its more a combonation of the two. and that is explained right on the box!
And as for the beta events I've played all the beta events since the E3 beta ,
And even during the beta's you can tell the same thing before even reading any box. So maybe this game ins't for you then, as far as you getting your 50 bucks back contact Arena net for it , or call you congressman to help you out.

I like hack & slash, AND I like dungeon crawler types of games equally.
thats why I like GW's the reason I am upset about GW's it is because once you hit lvl 20 with all your characters there isn't really any reason to continue playing.

I would like to do the GvG ladder competetions but most of my Guild Mates dont play the times that I play.

So I will wait till the they add the newer content at the end of the summer and play that out till the next Chapter.

What I would really like to see is an increase in levels beyond 20.
if they set it up so that each chapter you get new classes, or even races, that would be great.And if every chapter you get the ability to advance another 5 levels progressivly getting the levels to level 100 by the last and final chapter of the evolving story line. then that would be great for most HARD CORE PVE GAMERS.

As far as the PvP people they can just make so that the ones that dont like to unlock stuff can buy the skills they need to stay competetive with the people that play through the story and unlock there skills through environment game play.That should appease the HARD CORE PVP GAMERS.

Well thats my 2 cents worth.

john little · Jun 26, 2005, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

"Join Date: May 2005". From that little tidbit, it's obvious that you didn't play in the beta, or not much of it, and I'm very doubtful that you went back and read every Fansite Friday before your joined, and every other little interview.

The join date means absolutely nothing. I have played since E3FE and all the BWE's and only bothered registering once the game had actually been released (since anyone who has ever played a beta before knows that the release will be different in sometimes significant ways and that a lot of the beta information will be obsolete). Criticising a late join date or low post count is never a good argument to make.

The only question I'd ask is why all the moaning? Post your suggestions in relevant areas of the forum and see if anet agree with them. If they don't, then you are expending unnecessary time and effort on a fruitless exercise. Moaning only polarises arguments and rarely leads to solutions. For example, the whole UAS argument became a yes/no topic and those seeking compromise were largely ignored.

Mormegil · Jun 26, 2005, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Oh, let them talk. People just love to whine. Try and surf WoW, E2, L2, FFXI forums, you'll see plenty of people bitching, even though they're paying a fee for their beloved game.

A whiner's post written out of frustration, without solid reasons that back up his arguments, is worth like dust on a table.

/ignore is the way

Live a long and happy life.

BE|Dac · Jun 26, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

The secret to GW's no monthly fee is that 99% of gamers wouldnt buy the second month..

btw this is a joke

on a more serious note, You guys who think you know anything about guildwars because you play retail are ret...... retailers is the right word.

okay.

1) From the first day I read about Guildwars, before E34E... I read.

Skilled game based on competition, compete to finish quests first Or head to head play, all guild based and instanced. Not like other RPGs where time spent means everything...

2) E34E, was insanely fun... easy to create any combination you wanted in hours, and the maps where actually new. In fact the PVP had the exact same ammount of options as they do now.... with even better Arena maps to boot. Skill was a huge part of the game and everything was changing one battle to the next, without UAS or UAR,

to me E34E GW was the best version of GW ever. Period.

3) BWE
lvl 15-20 took about 5 hours at max... Everyone could get basically any skill they wanted through charms besides maybe 1-2. The only real advantage was some armor 5-10....

PvP was always varied, fun and wierd! Edge of Extinction, crazy mesmer builds... etc.

Of course fianna had prefarmed out a build and had a huge advantage at the time in experience and items.. but nonetheless extremely skilled teams like PFB still did really good, along with house Palo.

etc...

Basically though.. The final BWE was without a doubt the best.. The options where too good, and the pvp was extremely competitive and starting to really grow...

All the advertisements where drawing in casual players... who said Ill pick up Guildwars and have fun without spending 40 hours a week to be decent.

Welp..... the game then turned out to be a ****ing huge pain in the ass grind fest to be good. The premades started out horrible, in fact outdated to the point of pointlessness. In fact no new PVP maps existed except slight variants of old ones... and then Fort Koga an E34E was not even present...

............... umm so you are wondering why the PVP crowd, almost overwhelmingly hates the grind? Hates the systems in place?

1) I loved GW since spending around 16 hours in a day, during E34E playing the exact same character in arena over and over, It didn't matter because every entry brought a completely different battle.

2) The pvp Map designs became absolutely horrible. For instance, Every single Arena is DESIGNED to be HORRIBLE.

* Lets create 4 different paths, each with no way to join the other, so people can become lost and go different ways, including newbies.

*Lets create lots of tunnels and choke points and wierd elevations so people can not fight cleanly, yes People love the fact that half the battle mostly you cant see shit.

*Umm,, seriously every single Arena map has huge ramparts and pathways for teams to be split up, for a simple gameplay map the all wise map makers decided to make a maze, yes a throw together team playing on a maze will create epic battles.... why not just make it simple so they can actually fight head on without worrying about fools going the wrong way?

*Grind has increased every single BWE.... They increase the difficulty of maps, but also reward you less.. So now that riverside is actually hard.. you dont gain the same levels as you used to.... this eventually was semi balanced in retail..... but then the grind didnt even start in retail till you beat the game.. 500 hours of grind was what I was saying.. No one believed me but infact it is actually longer!

*PvP seems to be balanced perfect, It would be like creating a sword, balancing it perfect, spending years creating it.. then have a dull blade.

*PvP teams have been discouraged by DESIGN from playing or teaming together.

You wonder where we come off whinning like little girls.. maybe its cuz we just got taken to town by retail.

Ginko · Jun 26, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

The secret to GW's no monthly fee is that 99% of gamers wouldnt buy the second month..

btw this is a joke

Wrong, there may be a lot of people leaving in your demographic. But your little group of friends is small. There are many more people who enjoy the game.

--Ginko

Loviatar · Jun 26, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

The secret to GW's no monthly fee is that 99% of gamers wouldnt buy the second month..

btw this is a joke

was it possible that the demographic hardcore pvp was written off at the same time as the must have more level hard core?

they are going for a large middle ground of player and the extremes at either end are simply not going to get what they want