Curse

Indigo · Jun 30, 2005, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Why should it be easier for a PvP player to get skills as rewards than PvE?

Step away from your PvP world for a minute and actually think about this...

It takes 20+ wins in HoH, or some other similar PvP environment to get 1000 faction points? And you're doing all of that at level 20 already. The PvE's started at level 1, and worked their way to level 20, unlocking various items and skills along the way.

Why should it be easier to unlock things, just because the PvP player has decided to take the short road? I play PvP, as well as PvE. If anything, I think A-Net has shortened the time it takes to get various items as a PvP player.

It takes time to get to level 20, in PvE. Time that the PvP player doesn't, on average, want to spend. And that is fine. But, why should the PvE player be penalized, by making it easier for the PvP player to get items, armor, weapons and runes? This game was intended, as I see it, as a combo of PvE and PvP. One would compliment the other.

I think that they gave the PvP only players too much with this update. I think PvP should spend a similar amount of time as the PvE player unlocking everything. If they ever do the UAS/UAR/UAW, that will completely unbalance this game. There has to be a reason to PvE. To do anything more than A-net has done, removes that reason.

arredondo · Jun 30, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

PvP, or competitive play, in anything except Guild Wars is NOT about getting the gear you need to succeed. Skill, tactics, strategy... etc. Those are the things that appeal to most PvP-focused players, not getting things in order to do it well.

PvE is about getting stuff, so add PvE trinkets, clothes and glo-effects for their weapons. Allow PvP players to focus 100% on pure skill and strategy. Unlocking stuff is a PvE play mechanic that doesn't fit in PvP. Let each component build on their own unique appeal traits and not mix them up.

Night · Jun 30, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishin

I'll going to give every PvE player who manages to post in this thread without being a snot nosed, elitist punk $5. Does killing mobs rather than people somehow makes you a better person and thereby entitled to be an arse? Perhaps you should try unlocking some of your skills with this system, and see how fast it goes. Or maybe you could just extrapolate the math out, as some people have done.

The funny thing is I came to this game being far more of a PvE person myself. I bought it with a group of friends from college so we could have some form of cooperative game to play while all living in different states. The PvP was not a big thing to me, at first. I think I became interested in it in no small part due to not wanting to be associated with the holier than thou pure PvE attitude.

I want my five dollars as I pointed out of the whining not just PvP but PvE as well immdediately following changes (complaining about fixes when there is no way you could have ascertain yourself how easy or difficult something in less than 24 hours, is just plain ignorant. This goes for both PvE and PvP.)

Do want my paypal account number? I'll take M.O or cashier's check. I wouldn't send cash as I can't guarantee that I received and you will not get any proof. Let me know how we can work out these details.

stumpy · Jun 30, 2005, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by arredondo

PvP, or competitive play, in anything except Guild Wars is NOT about getting the gear you need to succeed. Skill, tactics, strategy... etc. Those are the things that appeal to most PvP-focused players, not getting things in order to do it well.

PvE is about getting stuff, so add PvE trinkets, clothes and glo-effects for their weapons. Allow PvP players to focus 100% on pure skill and strategy. Unlocking stuff is a PvE play mechanic that doesn't fit in PvP. Let each component build on their own unique appeal traits and not mix them up.

arrendo ... i was on the CS ladder running in spot 114ish ... your making a poor judgement on this ... you really are. You CANNOT COMPARE THIS TO games like CS, SG, and HL2 ... I dont know how many times you have to be reminded ... but here goes again ... this game is revolutionary ... it is not based strictly to standards set by other games ... thats why it ranks number 1 in the stores since release. Most games rank number 1 for a 2 week lifespan ... this game is not meant to be like the past old standards ... it sets new standards for a new genre ... it is a combo game as stated above and THAT'S WHY IT SELLS ...

Ensign · Jun 30, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

I played around with the system all day yesterday, my only real complaint is the cost of skill points. 2000 for a superior rune of your choice is perfectly reasonable - 1000 to maximize an upgrade component is downright generous. Faction comes in a lot faster than the numbers might indicate.

Skills are still badly overpriced, though. I've talked to a lot of people about it and no one is seriously considering unlocking a skill with their faction points until all runes and important upgrades are out of the way. Runes and upgrades are orders of magnitude more difficult to unlock normally, while unlocking skills is a neccessary part of PvP - and the pricing scheme does not reflect that.

For people sick of the skill point grind, this is a non-solution. One 'skill point' a night from *very* successful tombs runs is just not going to bring back the people who got sick of grinding skills. I'd say the cost of a skill unlock should be at least halved, if not dropped even a bit more.

It's a good system, the prices just need to be adjusted. The rewards do heavily encourage GvGing over all other PvP modes, but considering that GvG was basically pointless until now I don't think that's a bad thing. They just need to keep in mind that this is supposed to be a PvP unlock system, not a GvG unlock system.

Peace,
-CxE

stumpy · Jun 30, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

to a certain extent you have to realize that GvG is PvP ... just not arena style ... I'm glad they encouraged the GvG because too many guilds sit uneasy not wanting to GvG and that really needed to be addressed. Poeple are scared to go down on the ladder so its always ... 'can this be unrated?'

I mean come on ... let there be life ... its a game. I agree the skil points should be halved ... they seem a little high ... but maybe that will come in the future ... they have to balance it with the community and test it out first this week.

primal98 · Jun 30, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

YARGH!!! Evey update this happens, seriously, sometimes I feel like just never coming to a GW forum again.

As a PVP&E'r I love the new system... a little low on points givem for arena matches... but I like it. BUT!!!! This system would be 10000x better if ArenaNet introduced MORE maps. DO you see the guild wars map? It's like all... blank accept for 3 dots... your Guild Hall...Arena.....Tombs o.O Whhat I would like to see is an addition of new PVP "tournaments" and "maps". For instance, weekly tournaments in the dessert. Participate you get XXXX points, top 3(or w/e) you get XXXXXX points

Win-win

(plus points for kills). Then in the jungles, why not some Capture the flag, or Free for all maps

That would be one bad ass scenario!! Think about it 8vs8, and the winner gets extra points

The game needs to fill-out the map with new contests, and new battle arenas(like FFA). With more ways to win points I think it would be sooo much more fun.

~prime

Mountain Man · Jun 30, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

pvp person who is complaining

long before this update came out a large number of you were saying

*JUST LET US EARN IT IN PVP WHICH IS FUN FOR US.

I DONT CARE IF IT TAKES LONGER THAN PVE BECAUSE I WILL BE DOING WHAT IS FUN FOR ME*

right

Yeah, really. You'd think they'd show at least a little gratitude, but, no, it's "bitch bitch bitch" the minute the update goes live.

kaya · Jun 30, 2005, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by primal98

YARGH!!! Evey update this happens, seriously, sometimes I feel like just never coming to a GW forum again.

As a PVP&E'r I love the new system... a little low on points givem for arena matches... but I like it. BUT!!!! This system would be 10000x better if ArenaNet introduced MORE maps. DO you see the guild wars map? It's like all... blank accept for 3 dots... your Guild Hall...Arena.....Tombs o.O Whhat I would like to see is an addition of new PVP "tournaments" and "maps". For instance, weekly tournaments in the dessert. Participate you get XXXX points, top 3(or w/e) you get XXXXXX points

Win-win

(plus points for kills). Then in the jungles, why not some Capture the flag, or Free for all maps

That would be one bad ass scenario!! Think about it 8vs8, and the winner gets extra points

The game needs to fill-out the map with new contests, and new battle arenas(like FFA). With more ways to win points I think it would be sooo much more fun.

~prime

ya, i'm getting sick myself of the crap that people post here myself. better not to egg it on

can the mods make a forum for those who are complaining? i'd never visit it. :P

wongba · Jun 30, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

edit: to below post, if you are talking about me as a rabid PvP fanboy, then I'm not going to lie and pretend I don't support UAS/R just so people don't think i'm one of those cooky weirdo's who "wants everything now". But I do agree with your original topic. If not, then ignore this edit.

he was talking about algren cole and if u had any wits about u, u'd be able to tell. but i gotta say that in general ur posts never add anything of worth to the discussion. all u seem to be able to do is parrot what the elite pvp'ers say. when it comes time for any in depth comments, ur analyses are always shallow, unoriginal and mostly wrong. normally i'm not a confrontational guy, but u can't seem to keep from posting ur comments everywhere and it's getting more and more difficult to ignore.

please get smarter. or failing that, refrain from posting inane comments.

cyberzomby · Jun 30, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Us roleplayers need to infest some time as well. if the prices were lowered it would be nothing to just get some elite skills.
I realy like the pvp thing. ( I realy like the pvp part as well ) and i think its good that the prices are so high for the skills. Ok perhaps variable prices for the runes. Minors arent so good as Majors so why pay so much for them. I was assuming that anyway before I seen prices.
In a day ( perhaps an hour of pvp ) i got like 116 faction ( 8 consecutive wins )
If you havent got so much time at hand every day, than ure going to take longer than someone who has got a lot of time. And you just got to accept that. I cant play for 5 hours on most days. Just like 2 hours or something.
Isnt this the same thing when ure hobby is fixin cars or painting
What are you going to do when ure friend or neighbour has more time and finishes his cars or paintings earlier?

ManadartheHealer · Jun 30, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSLUGFly

you can still unlock the old way. They aren't forcing you to do anything they're giving you another option. This means that whether you agree or not you're in a better state now and stuff will unlock faster because aside from "grinding" to unlock stuff, every time you play PvP you get points added to your faction.

If you don't like the math then think of it like one of those "buy 10, get 50% off the next one" cards.

He is completely right. If only people realized this, there would be no argument. Don't think the new system unlocks skills faster than the old way? Do the old way then, rather than coming and complaining for nothing

Divinitys Creature · Jun 30, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

He is completely right. If only people realized this, there would be no argument. Don't think the new system unlocks skills faster than the old way? Do the old way then, rather than coming and complaining for nothing

It's not for nothing. You know better than this Manadar, I am sure you understand that technically it IS an alternative, but is NOT a practical alternative or fair one.

stumpy · Jun 30, 2005, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishin

I'll going to give every PvE player who manages to post in this thread without being a snot nosed, elitist punk $5. Does killing mobs rather than people somehow makes you a better person and thereby entitled to be an arse? Perhaps you should try unlocking some of your skills with this system, and see how fast it goes.

My brother just got off phone ... 1st time noob tested this faction crap out with a template .... 2 hours over 500 faction points ... stop crying and start battling ...

rii · Jun 30, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

^^^ this guy speaks the truth. i got 300 in 2 hours ( a bit less actually). maybe you just suck pvp

joke. you got asked for pvp option. here is pvp option. perhaps they didnt make it too powerful at first because the pvers might start complaining. For now, im happy its in, i had almost gave up on actually unlocking the skills pve. What a toil....... hail anet!

ubrikkean · Jun 30, 2005, 09:23 PM // 21:23

EDIT: Probably everything I have said has already been said in this thread, but still, it's compiled here I guess, and it shows my personal point of view.... Plus some new messages were posted because I didn't actually post this until like 20 minutes after writing it.

I honestly don't see any reason to complain at all about this update, no matter what you are complaining about. It just makes it so you can unlock skills using you're prefered game mode. Before, you were forced to play PvE to unlock skills, runes and mods, but now if you enjoy PvP more, you can still earn them, even if it is slow. The skills part doesn't mean much to high level players, but it could be useful if you want to earn skills for classes that you don't have a character with (and if you aren't willing to change secondary professions in PvE). Aside from skills, it's also great to be able to get runes and mods without having to play a whole lot of PvE, and you can choose which ones you get through this method, whereas in PvE you have to identify them, and so it's random. This system is especially good for people (like me) who play lots of both PvE and PvP, and whose only current goal is to gain things like runes and mods. Getting elite skills is fairly pointless through this method because of the price, but there's no reason for ANet not to include them, and the price makes sense relative to the others, which are not too expensive at all. It will take a long time to get them, but the system is meant for people who PvP a lot, so it won't take any longer to unlock mods and runes than if you farmed and got lucky and identified things.
To sum it up, don't complain at something that speeds up unlocking mods and runes, and it makes sense for skills to be there, and if you think that using faction for skills is pointless, then don't do it, just get some runes or mods. It's still worth it for them.

Andy_M · Jun 30, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

I play mainly PvE, I don't really have any interest (yet) in PvP, so as far as I'm concerned if this patch helps those PvP'ers get what they want quicker then more power to them. I have no problem with that.

Red Locust · Jun 30, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Someone already mentioned this, but anyways, it seems ANet didn't intend for this new system to help us unlock all skills in one day. It was meant for us to much more easily unlock all those weapons and runes we were missing. At least now you can go into Tombs or GvG knowing you have the best equipment possible, along with 8 skills of your choice. Noone should have an advantage on the battlefield. More skill grinding gives you a wider selection of different tactics, but you're no more powerful than the other team you're facing.

Pitdragon · Jun 30, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

^^^ this guy speaks the truth. i got 300 in 2 hours ( a bit less actually). maybe you just suck pvp

joke. you got asked for pvp option. here is pvp option. perhaps they didnt make it too powerful at first because the pvers might start complaining. For now, im happy its in, i had almost gave up on actually unlocking the skills pve. What a toil....... hail anet!

300 in two hours? Man, what was I thinking!? If I knew I could earn points at a rate that would give me roughly one skill every six and a half hours, I'd be all over it!

Right now, PvP rewards is not a viable way of collecting skills. Runes and weapon mods yes, but skills no. So what are we supposed to do to unlock every skill in the game? Play through it three times? Or should we just get used to only playing with the two classes we start with?

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jun 30, 2005, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Wow, yet another thread with people hurling childish insults at each other and basically foaming at the mouth. It's like going into a bar and overhearing a conversation like this:

"I don't like the pretzels"
"The pretzels are fine, are you stupid or something?"
"They're too salty, you moron"

*fist fight ensues*