Curse

Entropius · Jun 17, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

OK, a rant.

My character is an E/Mo, and I have many different ways to set up my character. I can be a fire AOE nuker, an Earth/Air PBAoE nuker (whirlwind, aftershock, earthquake), without or without wards, a primary healer, etc. I also run varying heals, mend condition, res, etc., and now I'm trying out a protection build.

I get in a group in town, and immediately start asking questions: Am I the primary healer? Is anyone else taking Mend Conditions? Should I take healing breeze, or does someone else already have it? Do you guys run lots of enchantments to power Dwayna's Kiss, or should I take Orison instead?

Usually I get no response, and bring heals if there's no Mo/* and whatever nukes I feel like along with one heal if there is. Or, at least that's the plan. Sometimes some 'tard will run out of town when I've got some halfway-done skill bar, and have nukes spread across two or three attributes.

Why don't people take 60 seconds to talk in town and plan?

salja Wachi · Jun 17, 2005, 02:09 PM // 14:09

ok well first of all you are not a monk. you have some secondary healing spells but that is about it.

you are an ele so stay that way.

Zombie · Jun 17, 2005, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Well, since someone else has decide to be rude, I guess I'll forgoe that particular response *rolls eyes*.

I agree, Entropius. I wish there was a bit more to grouping than just rushing for the exit/mission button as soon as the group is to the leader's requirements. Fortunately, I haven't had to deal with this overly much, but I definitely understand your concern.

My suggestion is to be very selective about your groups... and that's about the only suggestion I have other than the normal "join a good guild" thing.

Feel free to group with me if I'm around. I love a good tactical player. I'm ranging anywhere from the Ascalon area to the Lions Arch area, depending on the character. My main character is Corves Viusev (19 E/Me). Unfortunately, due to moving currently, I won't be around 'till next week sometime

.

Salja, don't be so condescending... the guy's just asking for some help.

Nokomis · Jun 17, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entropius

OK, a rant.

My character is an E/Mo, and I have many different ways to set up my character. I can be a fire AOE nuker, an Earth/Air PBAoE nuker (whirlwind, aftershock, earthquake), without or without wards, a primary healer, etc. I also run varying heals, mend condition, res, etc., and now I'm trying out a protection build.

I get in a group in town, and immediately start asking questions: Am I the primary healer? Is anyone else taking Mend Conditions? Should I take healing breeze, or does someone else already have it? Do you guys run lots of enchantments to power Dwayna's Kiss, or should I take Orison instead?

Usually I get no response, and bring heals if there's no Mo/* and whatever nukes I feel like along with one heal if there is. Or, at least that's the plan. Sometimes some 'tard will run out of town when I've got some halfway-done skill bar, and have nukes spread across two or three attributes.

Why don't people take 60 seconds to talk in town and plan?

Have a..what is that long word...strategy? Boh-ring. No way, dude, the only way to play this game is to rush into every mission and then charge everything that shows up as a red dot full-throttle. Cuz I am UBER!!! I OWN u!!! I love this game OMFG!!! So I am gonna kill everything and ignore whatever you say. Talk is boh-ring.

Once I am dead, I can swear at the monks, draw naughty bits on the map, and type lots of letters like OMFG over and over, which is just super-fun! Oh, and then I can just walk away from the keyboard and go look at the pictures in a magazine (cuz I can't read, OMFG) and pick my nose and boy, is THAT fun!

And BTW OMFG if u say anything bad about this game you are so gay. OMFG this game RULEZ. I own U!! Wanna go draw penises now?

LOL

Nokomis

salja Wachi · Jun 17, 2005, 02:23 PM // 14:23

not being rude my friend. just telling him in a direct way to stick with his primary. a secondary monk is not a healer.

he can heal himself and maybe some others for a short time, but he is not a healer. people need to stay within their abilities and not try to do things their character is not built to do

my advice to him if he wants to be a monk is to make another character as a monk primary. then he can heal aqway to his hearts content

Boubou · Jun 17, 2005, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

ok well first of all you are not a monk. you have some secondary healing spells but that is about it.

you are an ele so stay that way.

Look at the suggested build on this web site, you will see something called Arcanist Done Right. I guess if this build stays on the site, it's not that bad.

If I'm an Elem first.. I should not use mainly the skills of my secondary profession? Have you ever see an elementalist with smithing skills? I soloed 6 ethin alone and I finished the fight full health / energy, ready for the next wave. In PVP I killed two warrior that tanked me.

The advantage of being E/Mo with healing is the amount of energy available. Right the Elem will heal less at a time.. but can spam heal much longer than any Mo primary.

salja Wachi · Jun 17, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

I do not know how far you are into the game, but i will tell you this much my friend.

in the later missions without the healing bonus you will never be able to heal enough to be effective unless you put all your attributes into it, (in which case you might as well make a monk primary character)

Syno · Jun 17, 2005, 02:32 PM // 14:32

I disagree. As a monk secondary, sometimes my heals are all that keep the healer alive. They may run low energy wise, or just be focusing on one or two players, missing others or THEMSELVES! Secondary skills are there for a reason, not to look pretty. I always set out with at least 2 sometimes 3 monk skills in my bar; and I always end up saving someone's tail during the mission, sometimes the healer themself.

At any rate, I totally agree. I always try to form groups with myself as leader, so I can control when we start, at least in mission areas. Always remember the 7 P's of combat: "proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance."

A free web-based wargame that you can play from anywhere!

ihmurria · Jun 17, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34

most groups I've been in at least ask 'ready?" before we depart for the mission. If you aren't ready, let people know. Say you need a couple minute to reorganize your skill bar to fit the group better.

Boubou · Jun 17, 2005, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

I do not know how far you are into the game, but i will tell you this much my friend.

in the later missions without the healing bonus you will never be able to heal enough to be effective unless you put all your attributes into it, (in which case you might as well make a monk primary character)

I'm somewhere around Droknar's Forge, but I never tried to be the main healer. I may try it with my guildies, just to see what will happen (but I'm pretty sure you're right about it anyway).

Keesa · Jun 17, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Umm... Elmos are great healers when working together or in conjunction with a monk primary. Lots of times because of their superior energy pool they keep me alive long enough to recharge my mana and do my thing. Not sure which endgame missions you are citing but frankly I'd rather have a knowledgeable elmo than an unskilled monk primary in UW or Fire.

salja Wachi · Jun 17, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syno

I disagree. As a monk secondary, sometimes my heals are all that keep the healer alive. They may run low energy wise, or just be focusing on one or two players, missing others or THEMSELVES! Secondary skills are there for a reason, not to look pretty. I always set out with at least 2 sometimes 3 monk skills in my bar; and I always end up saving someone's tail during the mission, sometimes the healer themself.

At any rate, I totally agree. I always try to form groups with myself as leader, so I can control when we start, at least in mission areas. Always remember the 7 P's of combat: "proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance."

A free web-based wargame that you can play from anywhere!

lol i never said he cannot heal.

sure he can heal a bit without question. i usually bring a monk spell or 2 with me as well for emergencies, and rezzing, however later on in the game there os no way he can try to be a primary healer without the healing bonus. especially if there are no other monks in the group.

when the group becomes 8 people there is no way in the world he can keep up.

cause he can "spam" healing more than any other cause of his energy bonus, his heals are much less powerful cause he does not have the healing bonus. when you have a group of 8 and all are poisoned and bleeding with mobs everywhere that group is going down fast

Myodato · Jun 17, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

not being rude my friend. just telling him in a direct way to stick with his primary. a secondary monk is not a healer.

he can heal himself and maybe some others for a short time, but he is not a healer. people need to stay within their abilities and not try to do things their character is not built to do

my advice to him if he wants to be a monk is to make another character as a monk primary. then he can heal aqway to his hearts content

The OP made it very clear he was only focusing on healing when there wasn't a primary monk in the party, In fact, the entire thread is about how some people are unable to talk and adapt depending upon party composition and the task at hand. So what if a M/x can heal better than a E/Mo, it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Regardless of individual class combinations and their respective strengths, a party that co-ordinates itself to it's strengths and weaknesses is vastly more important than six people individually analysing their strengths and weaknesses. I think your response to this thread clearly shows you are more likely to be a co-ordinated individual, than a member of a co-ordinated party.

Creston · Jun 17, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

not being rude my friend. just telling him in a direct way to stick with his primary. a secondary monk is not a healer.

The ignorance contained within this quote is staggering. If my E/Mo is not a healer, how exactly did I get a party of eight from ToA to Villainy of Galrath without a primary monk in the group?

Sure, people died, I can't heal 8 people by myself all at once, and those lvl 20 critters hurt. But we never once had to ress the whole party.

I guess the fairy Gods watched over us.

Here's the easiest way to prove you're wrong : http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ght-id1053.php

Edit : Someone already linked that I see...

E/mo's work fine.

Edit 2

Quote:

cause he can "spam" healing more than any other cause of his energy bonus, his heals are much less powerful cause he does not have the healing bonus. when you have a group of 8 and all are poisoned and bleeding with mobs everywhere that group is going down fast

On average, I will have about twice as much energy as a primary monk. There will be situations where this isn't true, but in general it's a pretty safe assumption.
So where the primary monk spams Orison of Healing with say +30 divine favor, I spam Heal Other. The difference? Well, I think Orison will max out at 60 plus the 30 (or 36) divine favor is <100.
My Heal Other does.. I believe 150 healing. Sure, the energy cost is double, but that 10 energy doesn't bother you a whole lot when you've got 70+.

Oh, and not to be rude, but if a group of eight is poisoned and bleeding etc, a primary monk isn't going to save them either.

There is one other HUGE benefit to being a secondary monk, btw. You don't draw aggro like a monk. If a huge group of critters charges us, and I don't attack, I won't draw aggro. The monk will invariably get two or three gankers on him / her, and needs to spend a lot of time keeping himself alive, time during which he isn't healing other characters.
I simply stand in the middle of the melee, and spam Heal Other, or the occasional Healing Breeze (usually when I'm full of energy, 4 pips need to be working, or to offset DoT).
I have no spells to heal myself, I don't have to. If necessary, I can use healing breeze on myself, but my Elementalist Energy=Healing works fine, and like I said, I hardly ever draw aggro anyways.

In my experience, having both a primary monk AND an E/Mo in your team is an optimal combination.

Creston

Voob · Jun 17, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

I do not know how far you are into the game, but i will tell you this much my friend.

in the later missions without the healing bonus you will never be able to heal enough to be effective unless you put all your attributes into it, (in which case you might as well make a monk primary character)

This is coming from someone who plays a primary monk and has finished the game with an elementalist. An elementalist may not be able to heal as much as a monk in one burst, but they can spam heal to their hearts content. An E/Mo is actually a very effective healer if they invest their points into healing prayers and add a few different healing spells to their bar.

As a primary monk, I'm a lot happier when I have a second monk (preferably Mo/X, E/Mo or Me/Mo) to back me up in the group, it makes a rather large difference. As a primary healer on their own, they may not be able to heal quite enough, but as back up, they are defintaly effective.

About groups leaving before having a short discussion about builds and tactics, this happens to me a lot too.

Don't understand why people can't spend 2 minutes to discuss tactics, which could in the end, help them complete the mission. But I've also had a good number of PUG's who do discuss tactics before running off into the mission. Its all based on luck really.

Keesa · Jun 17, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I wish sometimes I could just get these two questions answered...

"Who is the primary tank?"
"Who is pulling and calling targets?"

/sigh

ArturoB · Jun 17, 2005, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Due to the lack of main job monks there's little reason why an el/mo shouldn't be accepted as a healer. I went el/mo as main healer for Abbadon's mouth and Hell's Precipice because we couldn't find a single monk, and our groups did great. 12 healing and 12 energy with a 70+ pool is just fine for healing with the right spells. It's a little harder to deal with spike heal needs, but you can also last longer in a battle than a monk.

salja Wachi · Jun 17, 2005, 02:54 PM // 14:54

i whole heartedly agree that as a back up they are good.

however if you read his post he clearly states that he is a "primary healer" sometimes.

I am pointing out that this is not a good idea.

not arrogance at all just fact.

en El/Mo as a primary healer in later missions is not a good idea.

read the entire post.

Keesa · Jun 17, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

i whole heartedly agree that as a back up they are good.

however if you read his post he clearly states that he is a "primary healer" sometimes.

I am pointing out that this is not a good idea.

not arrogance at all just fact.

en El/Mo as a primary healer in later missions is not a good idea.

read the entire post.

Your point has nothing to do with his post, though. Clearly he is trying to coordinate his skillset and attributes around the needs of the group with which he is currrently adventuring. If there is a need for him to be a primary healer, what is he going to say... "Oh, sorry. That's just not a good idea. Elmo is not a primary healer in later missions. Find someone else to heal."

Anyway, recently I've taken to saying, "PLEASE DO NOT ZONE INTO THE INSTANCE YET--MY SKILL BAR IS EMPTY," which worked fine... people were waiting for me to get my skillbar so it gave me a chance to ask questions while I had their undivided attention.

Well, until this one group where everyone immediately went afk when I said that.

Some days you just can't win.

Myodato · Jun 17, 2005, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

i whole heartedly agree that as a back up they are good.

however if you read his post he clearly states that he is a "primary healer" sometimes.

I am pointing out that this is not a good idea.

not arrogance at all just fact.

en El/Mo as a primary healer in later missions is not a good idea.

read the entire post.

That's nice.

And it has what to do with discussing tactics before leaving town exactly ?

You point is valid, but is as relevant and appropriate as me making a post just to tell you that the first i in your post should be an I.