Curse

Mercury Angel · Jul 10, 2005, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Points about the AI are correct though.

Pet AI is no better than any other, really. You know of that trick involving corners wherein the squishy party members the monsters want to get to are placed on the side of a wall so that the AI will choose a path that involves wrapping around the wall, and then having a tank stand there in the way at the corner?

The pets have a similar problem. If the area looks like this:

=====================
---------------------------
---------------------------
----------------Ally---------
Pet---- Player---/\\/--Target
----------------Enemy------
----------------------------
----------------------------
=====================

And you want to hit the target, you'll go around if necessary, or attack through the ally and enemy standing in front of you. Your pet will walk into the ally and enemy and stand there stupidly trying to get to the target but unable to. Since it won't go around, your only option will be to attack the enemy that isn't your target so that the pet will be doing SOMETHING.

I noticed that in the arena in a few battles. It didn't happen too often, but when it did, it was very frustrating. As with henchmen, it can be difficult to get them to move away once they're stuck in a certain position trying to get to a target.

I don't recall getting DP anymore from pet deaths. I thought the 8 seconds downtime was the replacement for that?

As for the power of the skills and abilities, and the beast mastery branch in general, I for one don't mind them.

telarin · Jul 11, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43

I think they should change such that your pet will follow you whenever you have pet skills equipped in your skill slot. It makes sense this way since the pets skills require a pet to work. This would get around problem of having to carry charm animal around all the time.

Black Raine · Jul 11, 2005, 01:03 AM // 01:03

They should make it so pets stand right in behind you, not at the edge of your aggro screen. It makes pathing easier, and won't attract aggro as well in pve, and will make using the pet for attacking slightly easier because it will be able to jump right into battle with you.

The only real problem with pets are that they are unwieldy because all players can do is choose an attack target and choose the skills.

Big Fat Duck · Jul 11, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16

here's a fix: stop trying to make beastmastery work

IT SUCKS

UsagiNoSenshi · Jul 11, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Raine

They should make it so pets stand right in behind you, not at the edge of your aggro screen. It makes pathing easier, and won't attract aggro as well in pve, and will make using the pet for attacking slightly easier because it will be able to jump right into battle with you.

The only real problem with pets are that they are unwieldy because all players can do is choose an attack target and choose the skills.

If they folowed right behind you they would get stuck on you when they went to attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Fat Duck

here's a fix: stop trying to make beastmastery work

IT SUCKS

as i said..it's not the pets that suck... it you!

Ollj · Jul 11, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50

A problem with pets is that you need to know how necros work to like pets.
Another is that even the best AI is not as good in PvP, so how to ballance that? its just not possible.
Pets still have an important role in this game and they are usefull in the team arena.

Nessaja · Jul 11, 2005, 02:43 AM // 02:43

-Pets have horrible AI
-Pets don't understand the concept of pulling
-Having pets is a fulltime job, while the rewards are lesser then with other classes.

Just face it, seriously, you have to attack a target to make the pet attack a target, casting spells doesnt even workk. Unlike henchmen who attack targets when spells are cast. They can't figur out things like attacking the nearest enemy when the first is dead, even henchmen can do that. The skills have a huge delay on them. You need 2/8 skillshots just to use a pet, he isnt effective at all with just 2 skills. If you bring more you need another to make him atleast decent (speed increase). The damage of the pets is a lot lower then bow/weapon attacks. The skills arent anything spectacular either.

Seriously, I know it's fun to play with builds that arent used a lot, but when something is broken it needs to be fixed. Don't come with "there are ways around it". Just because you can swim across a river doesnt mean there isnt a need for a bridge.

UsagiNoSenshi · Jul 11, 2005, 03:47 AM // 03:47

It's not ways around it's knowing how to play the build. It's been said a million times, you can't half ass this build, all or nothing. And it's really only meant for rangers, not casters, not warriors.

Ilya Khan · Jul 11, 2005, 05:36 AM // 05:36

I run a beastmaster and I challenge anyone right now to a duel with my bear. Winner gets 1k

. The pets aren't the problem, its you. Be creative and you will realize that having a pet is 10x nicer than having a tank.

StarGatherer · Jul 11, 2005, 08:59 AM // 08:59

I agree that charm is a waste of a skill slot.Once i charm an animal it is my pet.why do i have to take up a skill slot for a skill i wont use again unless i want to charm another pet.I would prefer to have a pet attack skill there.I mean my pet is my pal isnt it.My dog follows me whether i give him milkbones or not.Basically, the way it is now.For a ranger to have a pet he has to give up a skill slot for an animal that dies as fast sometimes as a necros summoned and necros dont lose a slot for that.And if i really like my pet i bring the comfort animal along thats two slots...if i want a pet attack i lose three.once the animal is charmed it should stay with you without charm in place.then you can add bestial pounce..woot

Silmor · Jul 11, 2005, 09:10 AM // 09:10

I like the suggestion of letting the pet follow whenever you have pet skills along (not simply beast mastery skills), but I definitely don't think automatically including the pet with a ranger is a good idea. There are many situations where you simply don't want a pet along (for instance when pulling with a bow) so it should remain optional.

Also, this thread should be in the Sardelac Sanatorium (suggestions).

Volomon · Jul 11, 2005, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Look the only people who are defending pets are the ones who use it for PvP I agree that they do work well for PvP but the only reason what so ever that they are good for PvP is because for the average player they can't conceive why anyone would want to put points into it, hence the pets ignored.

That is a lame ass reason for winning or using something, just because everyone ignores it.

You are talking about something that is traditionally PvE, however they tend to be so poor of a weapon for PvE you don't see many people use them. The reason they are used in PVP at all is because even with the limited AI they should be capable of attacking things, and the fact that everyone ignores them.

If I as a warrior could get everyone to ignore me with a skill I would use it, the same holds true for the pet in pvp.

On the flip side if pets did start to become a threat people would be busting up pets and everyone would need to be a R/Mo just to have BM work. For instance if you used a spider pet then obviously its probably going to get some attention.

I'm not saying it needs alot of tweaking but they could do a little to help it out such as give it more armor, health, or something.

Edit:
Apparently they have almost 1k life at level 11, so I guess Anet realizes they suck but they still need to do more. When I rez them with the 230 life at rez its only 1/4 the bar.

Silmor · Jul 11, 2005, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Volomon, get your experiences and facts straight first. Pets don't have massive health bars like that, at level 20 they have 480 health and 60 armour, the basic equivalent of a caster-type. Pets are better in PvE than in PvP - in PvP they're ignored for a simple reason, being that they can't pose any threat whatsoever to a coordinated team. In PvE you can at least have some hope of a monster attacking your pet.

Quote:

If I as a warrior could get everyone to ignore me with a skill I would use it, the same holds true for the pet in pvp.

Why, so your weaker teammates get killed while you survive? The reason why you're being ignored is because you're not enough of a threat, whereas a monk or elementalist is.

Quote:

On the flip side if pets did start to become a threat people would be busting up pets and everyone would need to be a R/Mo just to have BM work. For instance if you used a spider pet then obviously its probably going to get some attention.

Why would they need to become an R/Mo? If you have a Mo/- on your team, that monk can heal the pet just fine. I think you're misunderstanding some basic concepts in this game.

If any buffing of pets would occur, I'd say the pet skills could use love. Right now a pet skill works in pretty much the same way as a regular attack skill: added damage for one hit, and possibly an effect along with it. But controlling that attack is much more difficult - there's an annoying delay between issuing the call and the attack actually being executed, pets will frequently get stuck, and pets have severe trouble keeping up with a moving opponent. Landing a pet attack should hurt sufficiently, then.

Xue Yi Liang · Jul 11, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Was the title of this thread an intentional pun?
i.e. ". . . needs to fix pets"

LOL

Xonic · Jul 11, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Guildwars' AI is pretty good, and definitly good enough to serve the purpose. From the short 3 weeks or so, I often find it is easier to go through some quests with henchmen than with real players. At least the henchmens will stick with me and do what they are suppose to be doing. no running off, no afk, no "so and so has left the game", and afk myself whenever I want.

one thing I find in comman, real players and henchmen, is some casters tend to think they are tanks and charge into the pack of mobs and get beaten into puple in .5 second flat. only difference is, henchmen don't talk sh*t to me when they die because of this (I am a monk).

I guess what I am saying is,
good players > henchmen > bad players

so henchmen performance is right in place.

Algren Cole · Jul 11, 2005, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

What? This must be your first game. The AI in this game is the most advanced today. The mapping is perfect. Of course AI will be stupid, they don't really think (IE, Artificial Intelligence), they can't adapt to the way people think (Atleast not very well), of course.

You wouln't find better AI then this, really.

the henchies in this game aren't AI...for all intensive purposes AI doesn't really exist yet.

silvertemplar · Jul 11, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

What i would like to see is requiring x points in beastmastery to have a pet level of y with you. Simple as that. No Charm Skill filling up spellslot, just the appropriate beastmastery points. I think too many people bring along a pet just because they can and then points out how useful they are, overshadowing the beastmaster specialists concerns.

Iras K · Jul 11, 2005, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumblyfish

Just another one of the cons. I never really notice it, myself, as the only time the pet dies my team's as good as lost, or I'm dead.

Not to mention all those incompetent rangers that can't heal their own pets. If you gonna pay one of your so longed skills slot, you should use that awesome companion.

BTW, As I monk I've found myself casting more heal on the pet than average player.

Why? because the pet is indeed a very worthy ally. And you think one skill slot is a pain when you got a tank receiving damage at voluptuous quatities while your other team mates show up their skills? Hmmmm, bad ranger bad ranger.

If you gonna take a pet, use it. Because the Best Mastery line is indeed usefull component of the ranger build. If you gonna stick to the mark+wild ranger, then congratulations for being mediocre (Not in the bad and misunderstood sense of the word, but in it's real meaning of "average").

If you read well the Best Mastery skills, you'll notice that all of the skills complement another of the ranger skill threads and some are even more usefull in some situations than ranger skills itself.

Iras K · Jul 11, 2005, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Or it's just hard to understand for the not worthies ;-)

Big Fat Duck · Jul 11, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

pets are a liability, especially for monks to keep them alive