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Anti-"Freeloader" Extremists?

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Old

Jul 12, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

#241

Aaaaagh

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

They say, there's no "I" in "TEAM".
How can it be your time then?
The moment you join a team, you agree to share your time with the time of other players.

Well, its hardly my fault that the moron who originally spelled team didnt spell it tiem, or my favoirte itieiami.

Your argument is because there is not letter i in team, I am then not entitled to my own time? When ever I am with others, then I lose all of 'my' time to 'our' time? No.

Human nature is to be selfish, people think its bad, but its a very good thing. Its what keeps us going, striving; charity is only helping yourself, making yourself feel good. People seem to frown on that philosophy, but its true, and its good. I am human, I am selfish. There may not be an I in team, but there damn well should be. I am not here to make a group of 7 strangers happy, I am here to make me happy.

To counter your argument with one of like thought: There may not be an I in team, but there sure as hell is a ME.

And thats who I am here for, I dont care about you or anyone else. You dont care about me or anyone else. That doesnt make us bad, that makes us normal.

[/QUOTE]

Aaaaagh is offline

Jul 12, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34	#242
EinValentine Academy Page Join Date: May 2005 Location: A Lovely Suburb	The most important thing is just to let people know what's going on. And short of a real emergency (I just love how we went from having to go potty to OMG HITLER IS IN MY LIVING ROOM KILLING MY CHILDREN!1!!!) it's awfully easy to type "something came up - must go now", so the rest of the party isn't in the dark. Then THEY can decide how to deal with your absence. And if you are absent long enough for them to troop back to town and kick you, well too bad for you. When I play with a real player I expect them to provide a better use of a slot than a henchie would and taking extended AFKs is not part of the equation. Seriously though, in the course of three playthroughs of the game I've had far more troubles with folks getting discoed or just leaving because they are silly than I ever have with AFKs. (Though the guy that freeloaded through nearly the entirety of Hell's Precipice did get my nose out of joint.) There are plenty of natural break points in missions where people can hit the toilet or grab a snack. Finish a mission in Fissure - take a quick break. Not a complex concept.

Jul 12, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48	#243
Rumsolazy Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Aurora Legends Profession: Mo/W	Well, I don't think anyone find it fun even the OP when in the middle of the mission one team member said "hey I got to go for dinner for 1 hours, be patient and wait for me"

Old

Jul 12, 2005, 05:44 AM // 05:44

#244

Ashley Twig

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Location: germany

Guild: Guild Of Openhearted Deeds

Profession: R/Mo

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

Well, its hardly my fault that the moron who originally spelled team didnt spell it tiem, or my favoirte itieiami.

Nobody said, that it's your fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

Your argument is because there is not letter i in team, I am then not entitled to my own time? When ever I am with others, then I lose all of 'my' time to 'our' time? No.

No, that's not my argument.
The thing with sayings like "Ther's no I in TEAM" is, that they're not to be interpreted literally, because they don't make sense if you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

Human nature is to be selfish,

If that is true I'd like to state that I am not human.
Whatever I am, humanity does not run through my veines.
And I don't get involved into humanitarien actions, whatever they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

charity is only helping yourself, making yourself feel good.

Of course it's makeing me feel good.
But it also makes the person I'm helping feel good.
So it's a win-win situationi.

If I was human, I'd be thinking about my personal gains only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

To counter your argument with one of like thought: There may not be an I in team, but there sure as hell is a ME.

Yes. You are right.
There is, however, another saying that goes like:
"If everybody in the world is just thinking about him/herself, everybody is thought of"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

And thats who I am here for, I dont care about you or anyone else.

I'm curious: Do you have friends?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

You dont care about me or anyone else.

I do care about you. Otherwise I wouldn't be posting this text.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

That doesnt make us bad, that makes us normal.

In that caseI wish poeple wouldn't be normal. A bit more craziness could add some colour to the world.

Ashley Twig is offline

Jul 12, 2005, 05:56 AM // 05:56	#245
Watersong Academy Page Join Date: May 2005	Just sounds like an angsty teen to me.

Jul 12, 2005, 06:11 AM // 06:11	#246
Evan The Cursed Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005	Did I mention I like pie? (What like this thread hasn't devolved enough on its own; I'm just pushing it deeper into its open grave)

Jul 12, 2005, 06:20 AM // 06:20	#247
Aaaaagh Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2005	@Ashely Twig Read up on some phillosopy and sociology (Chaos Theory), humans are selfish, and like I said before thats a good thing. You have been socialized to think being selfish is bad, when it really isnt. You abhor that you might be selfish, so much that you make statements that you may not be human? Yes, helping others makes you and them feel good, so its win-win. That doesnt address why you do it though, its to make YOU feel good, not them. You do not care about me for unselfish reasons, if you do indeed care about me then you are somehow getting something from it. In the end we all do what is best for us, and our families. Speaking of which, of course I have friends, and a family. When I said I didnt care about anyone else, you took it out of context. The current context is the game, specifically Guild Wars. About you being normal, and not wanting to. You are simply thinking of it all wrong, once you accept the 'MEness' that is mankind, you will realize that it doesnt much matter. We are selfish, everything we do is to benefit ourselves. That doesnt change things. I volunteer time to help distressed teens, I realize that I really am doing it for myself, but it still helps them just the same. The only thing that changes is (y)our realization of the truth. @Watersong Im sorry you feel that way, I suggest you educate yourself. Then again, some of us enjoy 'living in the Matrix.'

Jul 12, 2005, 06:23 AM // 06:23	#248
EmperorTippy Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005	PvP needs a paue in between matches. Why? Because my random team had a 30 win streak of flawless victiories and we all had to piss. So we took turns going AFK to piss on this one match. We all died I want a option inbetween matches to pause for like 5 miniutes or even restart that 30 second counter.

Old

Jul 12, 2005, 06:37 AM // 06:37

#249

Aaaaagh

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

PvP needs a paue in between matches. Why? Because my random team had a 30 win streak of flawless victiories and we all had to piss. So we took turns going AFK to piss on this one match. We all died

I want a option inbetween matches to pause for like 5 miniutes or even restart that 30 second counter.

Hehe, since this thread has gone so off topic anyhow...

Maybe not a pause, but after every match the leader would have to hit the enter button again. Im not saying you would leave the map, you could just hit enter from there when your ready. You couldnt change skills or anything, it's only purpose would be to let you take a break.

Of course, the problem to this would be that the leader may not hit the button. If so, you would have to map back, it should much matter because if the leader is AFK then you probably wouldnt have won your match anyhow (being one man short).

Aaaaagh is offline

Jul 12, 2005, 06:43 AM // 06:43	#250
EmperorTippy Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005	we won 4 of those matches 1 man short (the first 4) idiots kept quitting when we had matches lasting 15+ miniutes in the random arenas. Gotta love that Life Bond+Protective Bond+a Healer Monk We had 2 E/Mo's both doing pure protect with Life bond and Protective Bond and I had skill breaker. A Healer Monk and a W/Me. Whenever anybody was hit this is what happened (Damage.05)/2 for the person beoing damaged and (Damage.05)/2-25 to the person supporting life bond. With olny 1 damage dealer it took forever to kill stuff but nothing could kill us so it's all good

Jul 12, 2005, 06:44 AM // 06:44	#251
Principa Discordia Site Contributor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: England.	Why even bring up psychology and sociology? Yes, there are aspects of PUGs that fall under those topics, but talk about reading too much into things and overly complicating them. Facts About PUGs: - 1.) People create/join a PUG because they cannot complete a mission alone. The four+ people in a PUG do have their own "agenda" in that they want the mission done for themself, but they are willing to work together and share their skills to get it done. 2.) Unfortunately, many players like to go AFK at the beginning of a mission and let the rest of the team complete the mission for them, which also gains them gold and experience points in the process. 3.) The fact above is now so common that many groups are sensitive to people who say "BRB" or "AFK". Even those who give a reason are under suspicion, as the group has no way to tell wether or not the person in question is actually coming back. 4.) The fact above is causing the increasingly common eventuality that some people who say "BRB", and actually intend to come back, are kicked from a group. This is the age-old story of bad apples and whatnot. That's the whole issue laid flat-out in four points. There's no need to go on about psychology and sociology in this topic, it's really as simple as I just laid out.

Jul 12, 2005, 09:59 AM // 09:59	#252
Louis Ste Colombe Academy Page Join Date: May 2005	Also being spot: afker in Arena. bot? They just get in a random matching arena, and sit there... I guess they're happy getting faction for free (although not much...) Louis,

Jul 12, 2005, 10:03 AM // 10:03	#253
Silmor Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Mar 2005	Yep, that's most likely a bot. People used to run these to leech some of the measly amounts of experience you get from PvP, I suppose now they're back to leech faction. Shouldn't just be a matter of wanting them off your team, these need to disappear from Guild Wars altogether. Report to support.guildwars.com and let them investigate.

Old

Jul 12, 2005, 11:32 AM // 11:32

#254

Gwenhywar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Guild: Shameful Spirits [SsP]

Profession: Mo/

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

If I'm in Fissure of Woe and we have been playing for an hour and I want to eat, then I'm going to eat.

And what stops you from logging out and taking your time to eat? Swallowing your food while listening to the game sounds in the background isn't healthy anyway since you're not concentrating only on your food and people you're eating with

Stick Out Tongue

And if the game is so unimportant to you as you claim it is, then it's no biggie for you to log out while eating, right?

I will agree with those that ask others to be considerate to their teammates. Normally people KNOW when they'll be eating. Or doing groceries. So if you gotta go for an extended period of time, LOG OFF. Or be called a freeloader and dealt with accordingly ...

As to the short breaks, I have never had problem with potty breaks or "grab a drink" breaks in any PUGs I've had, most people want those anyway and it takes just 1 minute or less so doesn't disturb the others.

I've been on a long mission when after an hour and half I had to leave because something came up. The mission was almost done, but I apologized to my group and LOGGED OFF. I don't think they should be dragging my idle character just so I can get the xp! That would be so lame.

That's how I play anyway so I expect same from others ...

(another problem is that while many DO have RL reasons to go afk, and people DO understand it, it's just hard to tell them from those intentional freeloaders ... I'm always waiting if a friend has to go afk, but when it's a stranger - how can we know? Maybe he's doing that every mission).

Gwenhywar is offline

Jul 12, 2005, 11:49 AM // 11:49	#255
Numa Pompilius Grotto Attendant Join Date: May 2005 Location: At an Insit.. Intis... a house. Guild: Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF] Profession: W/Me	Any game which allows grouping into teams also needs a votekick function. IMO.

Old

Jul 12, 2005, 12:03 PM // 12:03

#256

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Guild: Star Riders (StR)

Profession: N/

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

That's all well and good, but the very fact that two threads exist on this topic means that a good deal of the players do in-fact care if someone goes AFK and whatnot. This isn't about you.

Neither is it just about you. Thats the point I was trying to make a while ago. Not everyone is as prepared as you are. This isn't a straw man attack. This isn't going off topic!

Here's a solution. If someone goes AFK for a period of time longer than a group specified time then an AI takes over and the person is kicked from the game. This is decided before the mission in the town using a voting system. If the vote results in unhappy players then they can leave in town. This way no one can complain if they are kicked for being AFK.

Last edited by Thanas; Jul 12, 2005 at 12:20 PM // 12:20..

Thanas is offline

Old

Jul 12, 2005, 12:16 PM // 12:16

#257

Thanas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Guild: Star Riders (StR)

Profession: N/

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwenhywar

I've been on a long mission when after an hour and half I had to leave because something came up. The mission was almost done, but I apologized to my group and LOGGED OFF. I don't think they should be dragging my idle character just so I can get the xp! That would be so lame.

That's how I play anyway so I expect same from others ...

I played the last shiverpeaks mission yesterday. Now I did not realise how long this mission took. And I was given a vague time for when my food would be ready, since those preparing it were busy. Now I'm very close to the end of the mission and I've helped a lot all the way through and I get a call from downstairs "Foods ready". So I tell the team the situation and they are cool. They tell me I can leave my character to complete the mission since I've helped them loads throughout it. Now according to you this is free-loading, but my team are cool with me leaving my character hanging about for another 5 mins. Fact of the matter is you can't always anticipate how long a mission will take. SO AFK'ing is inevitable. The pace at which you go and thus how long the mission will take depends on your team and this cannot be gauged before a match.

Last edited by Thanas; Jul 12, 2005 at 12:40 PM // 12:40..

Thanas is offline

Jul 12, 2005, 12:35 PM // 12:35	#258
Gwenhywar Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Shameful Spirits [SsP] Profession: Mo/	Thanas - if your team is ok with it, and since it was at the end of a long mission, there is no problem, is there? All the problems start arising when people go AFK in the beginning or middle of missions, which normally is not ok with the rest of the people ...

Jul 12, 2005, 12:38 PM // 12:38	#259
Thanas Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Star Riders (StR) Profession: N/	I agree. However your post seems to suggest that you should leave at the end of a mission if you have to go AFK then since this is still free-loading.

Old

Jul 12, 2005, 12:41 PM // 12:41

#260

Silmor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Default

Quote:

Fact of the matter is you can't always anticipate how long a mission will take.

True.

Quote:

SO AFK'ing is inevitable

True.

Nobody is disputing that it can occur, and as has been indicated over and over in this thread, just drop a line explaining the situation. There's always a chance you have to leave your computer; how you handle that, and the logical consequences of how you handle it, is what has been discussed here.

Let's quit the nitpicking over the exact details.

Silmor is offline

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