Curse

Weezer_Blue · Jul 22, 2005, 12:52 PM // 12:52

It's an MMORPG aimed at being more competitive. Anyone who calls it a CORPG is a brainwashed fanboy. Yes, it's instanced, and, yes, the PvP experience is a bit different, but it's still massively multiplayer, it's still online, and it's still an RPG. There isn't a whole lot to justify calling it a CORPG (especially since release).

Epinephrine · Jul 22, 2005, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

It's an MMORPG aimed at being more competitive. Anyone who calls it a CORPG is a brainwashed fanboy. Yes, it's instanced, and, yes, the PvP experience is a bit different, but it's still massively multiplayer, it's still online, and it's still an RPG. There isn't a whole lot to justify calling it a CORPG (especially since release).

No, I've said it before, I'll say it again. It isn't a MMORPG. First, I would argue that none of the games out there are RPGs anyway, as I've said in some posts about what defines role-playing. Second, while the O is acceptable, as is the second M, the first M isn't. It is in no way a "massively" multiplayer game. Massively multiplayer refers to the sharing of a world by massive numbers of people.

GW is more like an online chess server. Thousands of people all in the lobby at th e same time, hooking up to play "instanced" games of chess. Once in a chess game you play vs your opponent (and in GW you can play vs an AI, with other players) but that's the extent of interaction. After the chess game the ladder is updated if it was a ranked match of some sort and you return to the lobby to have another game. Many chess servers offer multiple types of game and multiple levels of play - corresponding to more difficult missions etc... Guild Wars is no more an MMO game than chess is - the mere fact that many people are online playing it doesn't make it an MMO game. Heck, Yetisports has head to head penguin smacking now, with tens of thousands online at a time in a free java ghame; that's obviously an MMORPG right, lots of players, multiplayer game, online, play the role of a penguin smacking yeti...

But that's not what MMORPG means - it refers to a distinct genre in which the world is persistant and the massive number of players are all online in the same game together, in a persistant world - like 2000 player chess, on a really big chess board, in which any changes to the board configuration affect all players etc....

Edit: Oh, and I'm not a fanboy. I like the game, but I am also quite critical of it. I just happen to see the ways it differs from an MMORPG, which some people apparently can't perceive. Maybe it's like being colourblind: "Genreblind" a genetic condition whose sufferers can't distinguish between a 2d sidescroller and a FPS, between Zork and Neverwinter nights, and between an MMORPG and an instanced online action RPG (or whatever the hell title you choose to use for it).

Calimar · Jul 22, 2005, 01:20 PM // 13:20

I agree with Epinephrine, who'se name I've just given up trying to pronounce (so sorry, madam).

It's Multiplayer, it's online, it's competitive, it can be cooperative, it's fantasy, it's action, it's strategy, it's not RPG. So what do we have?

MOCCFAS-Norpg.

Or, if you ask me, CAMOG (Competitive Action Multiplayer Online Game).

samarium · Jul 22, 2005, 01:24 PM // 13:24

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Time Sink

TS

Haha, you have no idea. Play a REAL mmorpg and then get back to us mmkay?

I liked that MIRPG dealie, but let's do IMRPG instead because it doesn't feel as silly to say.

-sam

Diomedes · Jul 22, 2005, 01:30 PM // 13:30

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from http://www.guildwars.com/faq/default.html

Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)?

Guild Wars has some similarities to existing MMORPGs, but it also has some key differences. Like existing MMOs, Guild Wars is played entirely online in a secure hosted environment. Thousands of players inhabit the same virtual world. Players can meet new friends in gathering places like towns and outposts where they form parties and go questing with them. Unlike many MMOs, when players form a party and embark upon a quest in Guild Wars, they get their own private copy of the area where the quest takes place. This design eliminates some of the frustrating gameplay elements commonly associated with MMOs, such as spawn camping, loot stealing, and standing in a queue in order to complete a quest.

Guild Wars takes place in a large virtual world made up of many different zones, and players can walk from one end of the world to the other. In Guild Wars much of the tedium of traveling through the world has been eliminated. Players can instantly return to any safe area (town or outpost) that they have previously visited just by clicking on it in the world overview map.

Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience. Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild. As characters progress, they acquire a diverse set of skills and items, enabling them to use new strategies in combat. Players can do battle in open arenas or compete in guild-vs-guild warfare or the international tournament. Engaging in combat is always the player's choice, however; there is no player-killing in cooperative areas of the world.

Players in Guild Wars can play with or against players from around the world in the global tournaments and arenas. And while players are initially placed in a region based on their selected language (so that there is a greater likelihood that others will be speaking their language) they can join up in the always-available International District to form parties and to play with anyone from anywhere in the world.

-Diomedes

Xellos · Jul 22, 2005, 01:31 PM // 13:31

GW is a: Long and hard journey should A.net and NCSoft continue to fund it.

Weezer_Blue · Jul 22, 2005, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Alright then. So we have Competitive Multiplayer Online "RPG" (RPG in quotes, cause most of them aren't really)... All multiplayer games are competitive, and with few exceptions, all online games are multiplayer. So all we really need to say is ""RPG""... but since that's not really true unless you RP, which is kinda hard in GW... well call it a...

"game"

Algren Cole · Jul 22, 2005, 01:32 PM // 13:32

uhhh.. I'ma call it an MMORPG...cuz that's what it is.

Epinephrine · Jul 22, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calimar

I agree with Epinephrine, who'se name I've just given up trying to pronounce (so sorry, madam).

Lol - I'm a guy

But don't call me Sir, I work for a living.

And it's epinephrine (hear it)

Edit: Doh! Someone already posted the pronunciation!

Calimar · Jul 22, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12

ah I get it.

I would've said something like "epinefrìne" (by all likelyness, because I'm italian), you pronounce it "epinéphrine". Actually it's not that bad to pronounce, but it's complex and while I got that it was a chemical complex (sounds like one, doesn't it?) I have no clue what it is.
".... also called ADRENALINE"!? Now THAT is clever.

And DOH! For some reason I thought you were a lady ;p Now that I think of it, wasn't it you that complained about the use of "rape" as a way to define victory over mobs in another thread? Agreed with you back then, respect rises.

On topic: I don't really think it's much of a "cooperative" game. The only cooperative part of it are missions, and you can do most with "hired" henchmen. The competitive part is much more obvious and "charged" in terms of game advancement.
JMNERHO. "CAMOG"! Or CAMOIG if you want "instanced" in it.
A

KvanCetre · Jul 22, 2005, 02:16 PM // 14:16

CORPG

Its right on the site

Epinephrine · Jul 22, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calimar

".... also called ADRENALINE"!?

Hence my character names:
Andrea Nile
Neal Andrei
Daniela Ren
Lana Erenid

I'm fine with CORPG; it sets it in a separate genre, and it's the name ANet chose - I don't agree with it as a description, I think MIRPG or IMRPG is better, possibly with "action" worked in to emphasize that it's really more of a hack and slash game: MIARPG looks like an RPG that was last seen in heavy combat though...

thorizdin · Jul 22, 2005, 03:32 PM // 15:32

For the OP, who wasn't convinced about GW's FPS lineage. Let me ask, name another RPG, on or off line, that has active dodging. Now, name an FPS (made in the last 4 years) that doesn't have active dodging. How many RPG's games have and need the ability to strafe?

samarium · Jul 22, 2005, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Hence my character names:
Andrea Nile
Neal Andrei
Daniela Ren
Lana Erenid

LMAO! That's awesome!

-sam

Numa Pompilius · Jul 22, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

The genre that inspired the term mmorpg invovled a bit more than having multiple people running around and gaining levels. One of the big differences is the persisting world that they exist in. GW does not have a persisting world outside of the towns and each district is treated like a seperate server by comparison.

This is a quantitative, not a qualitative difference. The "true" MMORPGs also have both instanced and persistent content, the difference is just the relative balance.

Also, GW _is_ massively multiplayer, it's online, and it's an RPG. That, to me, suggest it's a MMORPG.

The subdivision into districts is if anything less restricting than the watertight subdivision into servers the "true" MMORPGs have, as you can move between districts at will.

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I would not, however, begin to describe those types games as action or adventure style games due to the pace of the game and the focus on the character development or world progression. GW on the other hand fits better into those types of catagories, due to the largely available quick and easy solo play for pve and the non-persisting effect of the actions the character has on the world around it.

Again, I see no difference. In EQ2 I could kill an Orc boss, then all I had to do was wait two minutes and kill him again. Or, more often, have someone else steal my kill. The world was completely static.
In GW at least *some* things do change. Not only pre/post searing, but also quest bosses disappear - you only have to lift the siege of Piken Square once, for instance.

Also, FWIW, I'm told WoW is highly soloable, even more so than Guildwars.

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Typically this is why some have frowned on the console based rpgs due to how inflexible they are, but the popularity usually revolves around the combat system, story telling, and the pace of the game for consoles.

The only RPG I've played which had as wide latitude in which order to do things, and as weakly railroaded story, as Guildwars, was Morrowind.
Pretty much all PC RPG's are very linear; the IMO best cRPG ever, Planescape: Torment, is linear as Autobahn, and the same goes for e.g. KOTOR. Not incidentally both KOTOR and PS:T have very strong storylines.

Linearity means ability to tell a story. Morrowind and Guildwars both have unusually weak storylines, and consequently an unusually high degree of flexibility. I mean, you can even completely bypass the central event which takes place late in the game, that is surely not linearity.

I do frown on traditional japanese console-style RPG's, but for their illogical and bizarrely convoluted stories (which I, frankly, tend to find childish), the generally very poor controls, and that I simply don't like manga.

TopGun · Jul 22, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Let's go through it, letter by letter.

Massively- A hell of a lot of people playing this baby. And sure as hell, I can walk into Lion's Arch and see districts loaded to the brim with internet idiots. That's massive, alright. If Massive refers to world size, then Guild Wars may in fact be the most massive game I've played. The map is ridiculously large- I choked when I saw how big it was.

Multiplayer- Other people play with you. Being that I group with more people than I ever did in WoW, which is an "official" MMORPG, this one applies.

Online- The internet is used to play the game. And sure as hell, I tired unplugging my modem and playing, and I couldn't. So this one's good.

Role
Playing- this is a singular term, but two words. It refers to playing the part of any person other than yourself- I play a Blood Magic Necromancer, commonly reffered to as a Vampire. Being that I'm not a Vampire in real life

we can conclude that I am, in the lowest sense of the term, Role Playing.

Game- Something I do for fun, to relax, or something which does not take place within the context of reality. To me, Guild Wars is a game, not a way of life.

Therefore, I have coined the term "MMORPG" for Guild Wars.

hey...

wait a second...

Epinephrine · Jul 22, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Let's go through your argument:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopGun

Massively- A hell of a lot of people playing this baby. And sure as hell, I can walk into Lion's Arch and see districts loaded to the brim with internet idiots. That's massive, alright. If Massive refers to world size, then Guild Wars may in fact be the most massive game I've played. The map is ridiculously large- I choked when I saw how big it was.

Massive is different from massively - massively is an adverb. Given that it modifies the word "multiplayer", that would suggest that you play with "massive" numbers of players. You don't, most of the game is spent with 7 or fewer players, and in PvP you may have as many as 23 others around. Hardly massive. As for people playing, Masive numbers of people are playing games like Penguin toss, so that isn't a valid reason, and tens of thousands are playing online chess at the moment. A First Person Shooter would thus be Massively Multiplayer as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopGun

Multiplayer- Other people play with you. Being that I group with more people than I ever did in WoW, which is an "official" MMORPG, this one applies.

No argument, it's multiplayer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopGun

Online- The internet is used to play the game. And sure as hell, I tired unplugging my modem and playing, and I couldn't. So this one's good.

No argument, it's online.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopGun

Role
Playing- this is a singular term, but two words. It refers to playing the part of any person other than yourself- I play a Blood Magic Necromancer, commonly reffered to as a Vampire. Being that I'm not a Vampire in real life

we can conclude that I am, in the lowest sense of the term, Role Playing.

This is no more role playing than CounterStrike is - you play the "role" of a terrorist or counter terrorist. Heck, Monopoly is role playing then; you play the role of an investor in real esate, controlling areas of town for additional financial reward. Give me a break, it isn't Role-Playing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopGun

Game- Something I do for fun, to relax, or something which does not take place within the context of reality. To me, Guild Wars is a game, not a way of life.

Yup, it's a game. So I'd agree to call it a MOG if you want, and I'll even say that since other titles get away with calling their games RPGs it can as well, so a MORPG. I think that is a genre with so many games that it doesn't distinguish GuildWars from CounterStrike or Civilzation Online (yeah, sure its an RPG, unless you really are the leader of ancient China).

Phades · Jul 22, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

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