Curse

Phades · Jul 22, 2005, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

Well, typically I just dont care about the newb arena, sure I played as a newb, but does anyone experienced do this?

You claim no one can keep up with it? Absolutely anyone can keep up with it, there is no skill involved in buying a droknars (or whatever) run. There is no reason everyone cant do it.

If they play through the game normally to get to beacon's perch to do the run they wont be level 10 anymore. If they run to beacon's perch skipping as much content as possible, then buy their way to droknar's forge, then go back and pickup what few skills they would actually use and goto the arena then yeah they will still be level 10. Hell, you could be level 13-15 before even getting to yak's bend just on questing and being thorough.

The main issue to this situation is what many have come to call twinking. Some games have ways to curtail this, others do not. In a "competitive" game i would expect limitations on what is available, starting at the pre-searing all the way up to GvG. This follows a natural progression going through the pve, but it does not follow any kind of progression if the goal is pvp. This is why people have raised their voices in objection towards the individuals that choose to go for the most advantage possible before they are intended to weild it. These low end arenas are the worst case skewing arguments for and against the unlock all X threads. The worst case is that people will have elietes, armor, runes, fittings, and weapons that are well beyond what their opponent has and end up with a distinct advantage. It would be almost the same if those lower end arenas didnt have level restrictions, as you would see the same equipment and skills employed, just on a higher skill point character.

Then there is the attitude that this is beneath them and it doesnt affect the game. It does affect everyone who hasnt already played the game through several times and are still learning it. People who face off against these over twinked characters will likely get turned off to pvp or the entire game before they understand it fully as well. In other words, it should matter to everyone, if they care about playing with or against anyone new in the future.

generik · Jul 22, 2005, 11:05 AM // 11:05

If you want to hear my piece on this...

Runners != Cheaters
Runners = FAGOTS

That's it. Gays, fags, sissies... whatever you wish to call them, they are it.

Lvl 7 character wearing droknar armor with illusionary weaponary in ascalon arena. Very honarable gameplay indeed. The way devs intended it... NOT.

Old Dood · Jul 22, 2005, 11:23 AM // 11:23

I paid a guy last night. He was asking for 1.5K for the run. It was very entertaining to watch him thread the needle. I gave him 2K because he was honest and a decent person. My character is a lev 15 monk. I was lev 8 when I crossed over from Pre-Searing. I do not use my guy to go to the lower level arenas. I can count on my hand how many times I have been in the arena since this game started. I just wanted better armor because I believe 30AL armor is just too whimpy. I also have finished the game with my W/mo before. Now I can go out and solo better.

Numa Pompilius · Jul 22, 2005, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaaaagh

Well, typically I just dont care about the newb arena, sure I played as a newb, but does anyone experienced do this?

Yeah, they farm newbies for faction. I haven't tried Ascalon for a while, but it's probably a bit better now when you get exp for PvP again, as that means their avatars will eventually out-level the arenas, and they'll either have to twink a new or <gasp!> fight fair.

Although that's probably small comfort to the hundreds of newbies they've ganked before being kicked out of the low level arenas.

As for the runners, they have my respect. It takes skill to run to Droknars, I've tried it but never got more than half way. The people they run, now, those I just consider lame, even if they use the armor just for PvE. As others have said, it's not like the early missions are hard.

Stur · Jul 22, 2005, 12:17 PM // 12:17

If they want to stop it, all they have to do is close Lornar's Pass. I servers no purpose other than for "runners" and maybe capping a few elites. More the boss mobs to a different zone, close it, problem solved. If they do you'll know they didn't intend it to be used that way, and if they do then problem solved. If they don't then get over it, play your game and quit telling people how to play theirs. God i feel like i'm in the room with Hilary Clinton.

Mithie · Jul 22, 2005, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Why do I run to Drok's? Because I'd rather pay 2k on a runner than spend money on buying armor in-between and then having to dump those armor a week later for drok's armor, therefore wasting all the resources and money I've spent on acquiring them. Unless you tell me I'll be a productive member of my team in thirsty river with my starter armor.

Aniewiel · Jul 22, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoebiusLost

It is the same as always, people are adamant that they are right. They have closed minds and refuse to fairly consider the alternatives -- too much hard work I suppose.

What I find pathetic are the people who insist on treating this game like a job.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It sounds like you are rather adamant about your point. Do you have a closed mind?

I think that running to areas where your level character shouldn't yet be is silly. But if they have the money and are just too impatient to wait, it doesn't hurt anyone. Runners only exploit the greed of the persons willing to pay.

Weezer_Blue · Jul 22, 2005, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Runners? 0mFgz0rZ h4x!!111shift+1one

Feli · Jul 22, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

So it is newb arena and no one is fighting there... what if i would enjoy fighting there now and then if not for the Droknar Cheaters in there?

Go on, tell me how you beat a Warrior in a big bad max AL Armor, hitting for 60-100 combos while you do 1-2 Damage to him. Go on, i'm listening. No reply? Wonder why... because you can't with the very limited possibilities of a person who plays the game the normal way. Health Degen? Yeah... won't last long enough and you're dead before you or your team can get off a second spell of that type.
What exactly is fair about that? I had a warrior in there 4 people were shooting, casting and whatever... at the end of the battle he lost like 25 % hitpoint and killed all of us with one or two hits. This is the way the game is meant to be played? No it is cheating. Cheating your way towards equipment and skillsetups not made for your level.
So just because it is the "NEWB!!!!!!11!" Arena, the people who play there are there just for the reaping? Getting killed without the slightest bit of chance?
Go on, tell me how do you kill someone who has triple your armor and eliteskills with your meager low level skillsetup?

Normally living with the minimal Skillchoice you got there, is the thing that makes the Lowlevel Arena Interesting, the lack of the Trendw_h_o_r_e Builds. People actually gotta be creative to pull something in these arenas, unlike the normal PVP Character who just copies another ones copy.

See, i completed the game several times, it would be real easy for me to get pulled to Droknar and basically just do the same thing... but it is not right, it is lame and... yes... say whatever you want, its cheating.

So let it be the newb Arenas, even or especially the new players mustn't be treated like shit just because they started the game anew and some moron thinks it is his god damn duty to "ownzorize teh noobs wit his uba gear...lolololooooolroflroflloool"

Mithie · Jul 22, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

I think that running to areas where your level character shouldn't yet be is silly. But if they have the money and are just too impatient to wait, it doesn't hurt anyone. Runners only exploit the greed of the persons willing to pay.

Greed? Naw, it's not greed. I'd rather pay a runner 2k than spend over 5k on a set of armor at Lion's Arch just so I won't die in one hit when I do the ascension missions. That 5k is essentially wasted once I DO reach droknar's legitimately, where I purchase the drok armor and trash or sell my LA armor. If they gave me an option of upgrading my armor without paying the whole cost over again, I'd be the happiest guy on Earth.

Aniewiel · Jul 22, 2005, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

So it is newb arena and no one is fighting there... what if i would enjoy fighting there now and then if not for the Droknar Cheaters in there?

Go on, tell me how you beat a Warrior in a big bad max AL Armor, hitting for 60-100 combos while you do 1-2 Damage to him. Go on, i'm listening. No reply? Wonder why... because you can't with the very limited possibilities of a person who plays the game the normal way. Health Degen? Yeah... won't last long enough and you're dead before you or your team can get off a second spell of that type.
What exactly is fair about that? I had a warrior in there 4 people were shooting, casting and whatever... at the end of the battle he lost like 25 % hitpoint and killed all of us with one or two hits. This is the way the game is meant to be played? No it is cheating. Cheating your way towards equipment and skillsetups not made for your level.
So just because it is the "NEWB!!!!!!11!" Arena, the people who play there are there just for the reaping? Getting killed without the slightest bit of chance?
Go on, tell me how do you kill someone who has triple your armor and eliteskills with your meager low level skillsetup?

Normally living with the minimal Skillchoice you got there, is the thing that makes the Lowlevel Arena Interesting, the lack of the Trendw_h_o_r_e Builds. People actually gotta be creative to pull something in these arenas, unlike the normal PVP Character who just copies another ones copy.

See, i completed the game several times, it would be real easy for me to get pulled to Droknar and basically just do the same thing... but it is not right, it is lame and... yes... say whatever you want, its cheating.

So let it be the newb Arenas, even or especially the new players mustn't be treated like shit just because they started the game anew and some moron thinks it is his god damn duty to "ownzorize teh noobs wit his uba gear...lolololooooolroflroflloool"

Try this thread:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=35812

Post your ideas on -how- it can be cleaned up.

Weezer_Blue · Jul 22, 2005, 01:03 PM // 13:03

The problem is that there are a slew of people who want people to play the game *their* way, even if options contrary to theirs do not affect them. "You MUST do all the missions to get to droknars"... what if people find it more fun getting a run there? It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. There's no rule book, or set of laws, besides not doing things to harm other players.

Half the complaints are about people with Droknar's armour in the arenas... why not put a restriction on the armour you can take with you (ie: checks inventory, not just equipped items).

Haloknight9 · Jul 22, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

OH yeah? How do you compete against someone in the Shiverpeak's lvl 15 max arena using Elites...?

You can't really, heh. I personally consider it an exploit. Perhaps I should go check the guidelines people sign when installing the game, im pretty sure it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Oh yeah, sure... Soo much skill to have someone RUN your sorry-pathetic-must-feel-better-than-others ass to Droknar's Forge... Damn lamers.....

Yeah, its lame. Damn arena farmers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I honestly think the game MUST have a pure LOCK on things like using elites in like, the Ascalon arena. For sure if someone can stuff my lvl 15 mes/nec in Shiverpeak's with SPELL BREAKER, someone can do it in Ascalon Arena......

This idea rocks... I think it would be cool if they added some kind of armor lock as well. Aka: you cant use droknars armor or elites in lower level arena.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Droknar's armor should be lvl 20 for sure. I mean, you already ascended right?

This I highly disagree with. I would say about all the people I know that get ran to the forge get the armor for a reason. And that reason is becuase we already played through the game once with the other character on the account. When we create a new one, and work him/her to beacons pearch, getting the armor is just one less thing we have to do endgame when running through the whole process again. Besides, it tends to help you a bit on the 2+ run through.

Lets think for a second... a higher level area (forge) hooked to a lower level area (beacons perch) ... sure seems intentional to me... allthough I don't think it was for the purpose of having people use armor/skills to keep control the lower end arenas.. I think thats just one area the devs didnt think about.

ComMan · Jul 22, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

If you run to finish the PvE faster, then I don't care.

If you run to cap elites and get Forge Armor for Ascolon/Shiverpeak Arena, then you're a cheater.

Algren Cole · Jul 22, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

I don't really care if they do it or not...the only thing I care about is that they justify it by saying "AreneNet intended it to be this way".....and they didn't. I have a large problem with people that skew ideas and words to meet whatever need they have for them. Lornars Pass was NOT put in so you could run people to droknar for money.

Albertt · Jul 22, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

thing about if u ar a magician ........ u can't attack near of the enemy .....

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http://www.guildwarsthegame.tk

Calimar · Jul 22, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Uhmpf.

should I mention I'm not a runner and I got to droknar on my feet, through glint's? I guess I should.

If it's about the arenas, there's another thread. If it's not about the low level arenas, can someone give me a reason that does not include "a.net wants/didn't want" or "they're cheaters"?

Let people play as they like. If it humiliates you to be beaten up, ask for a 1vs1 arena where you can settle scores. You create a pvp char, you fight it out. If the runner's product beats you there, it's skill. Period.

Sekkira · Jul 22, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

The problem is that there are a slew of people who want people to play the game *their* way, even if options contrary to theirs do not affect them. "You MUST do all the missions to get to droknars"... what if people find it more fun getting a run there? It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. There's no rule book, or set of laws, besides not doing things to harm other players.

You're absolutely right. It is a game, people can play how they want as long as it doesn't effect anyone in a negetive way (winning against a sore loser isn't included). However being run somewhere isn't exactly playing. It's watching someone else play, someone else do it for you.

While I don't have anything against the concept of running, I am very much against the concept of people running for others and others willing for people to run them places. I can't stop it, ArenaNet probably can't stop it, but it's not right. It's not playing the game, it's being lazy and getting people to play it for you so you can say you beat it cause your character has it beat.

I'm not talking about the Lornar's run specifically (the droknar's armour first to save time on getting the Lion's Arch armour is a good idea) but pretty much the running anywhere. People being run to Yaks bend, Beacon's Perch, Gates of Kryta, Beetletun, Temple of Ages, Sanctum Cay, etc. It's lame, it's lazy and it should be stopped somehow.

Winds of Blood · Jul 22, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Im actually very sure people want to do quests like Blood and Smoke and Altheas Ashes over again. Or they can pay me 20k to run them from Ascalon to Forge. Thier choice.

Numa Pompilius · Jul 22, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calimar

should I mention I'm not a runner and I got to droknar on my feet, through glint's? I guess I should.

Same here.

Quote:

Let people play as they like. If it humiliates you to be beaten up, ask for a 1vs1 arena where you can settle scores.

Yes, of course the newbies suck at PvP - they're new. Quite often, even usually, the twinked characters have not only better gear and skills, but are also more skilled, than the newbies they gank. Skill is not the point.

The point is that the low level arenas is a place to let newbies try PvP under easy forms, so they'll want to play more PvP. They're supposed to LEARN.

So the problem with twinked characters farming newbies is that it puts the newbies off ever playing PvP again. That's in no-ones interest.