Curse

PieXags · Jul 25, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58

While not as much as I'd like, as much as there can be required of it in a game like this. I always liked to think someone with a lot of skill could take on 10 guys with proper movement, quick fingers and knowledge of how things work.

Then I realized that I was used to FPS games, where you can almost become a God by your own skill. Hell I got so good at DoD it's the sort of thing where it's like "There's an MG over there, throw a grenade at him!" And here I'll be charging him with a knife, followed by his death and 3 others by the tiny little blade.

But I'm so used to that, it's hard to switch off. GuildWars, or any other RPG out there, can't really have that sort of skill. It's mainly just a ...knowledge sort of skill, if you know what I mean. Proper use of the skills you have and knowledge of of the game, knowing how to play your build in the midst of battle, and a bit of timing...that's the form of skill this game has, and in an RPG, that's as close to skill as you're going to get.

Shame I can't get good enough to solo a team by myself though, just not possible in RPGs. Oh well, still alright. Now if only we had bigger teams!

Phades · Jul 25, 2005, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

While not as much as I'd like, as much as there can be required of it in a game like this. I always liked to think someone with a lot of skill could take on 10 guys with proper movement, quick fingers and knowledge of how things work.

Then I realized that I was used to FPS games, where you can almost become a God by your own skill. Hell I got so good at DoD it's the sort of thing where it's like "There's an MG over there, throw a grenade at him!" And here I'll be charging him with a knife, followed by his death and 3 others by the tiny little blade.

But I'm so used to that, it's hard to switch off. GuildWars, or any other RPG out there, can't really have that sort of skill. It's mainly just a ...knowledge sort of skill, if you know what I mean. Proper use of the skills you have and knowledge of of the game, knowing how to play your build in the midst of battle, and a bit of timing...that's the form of skill this game has, and in an RPG, that's as close to skill as you're going to get.

Shame I can't get good enough to solo a team by myself though, just not possible in RPGs. Oh well, still alright. Now if only we had bigger teams!

I know exactly what you mean, lots of faster paced games usually create walking legends from things like that. While the organization and strategy still play a part in the victory it boils down to the "skill" of the individuals opposed to the team play ability. Nothing quite like staring down a 3v1 situation or more and have the other side move into a bottleneck making their numerical advantage drain down the toilet while you lure them out and a mistimed shot, combined with a well timed and placed shot nearly instantly evens the odds back to 1v1.

Kishin · Jul 25, 2005, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

Shame I can't get good enough to solo a team by myself though, just not possible in RPGs. Oh well, still alright. Now if only we had bigger teams!

Bigger teams would degenerate the tactical, pseudo-squad based element of GW, and everything would just descend into chaos and randomness. It would become a mess very, very quickly. Its also terrible on system/server resources after awhile: Anyone who's played in the lagfest that is a Lineage II castle siege could tell you some serious horror stories, granted those could contain a vastly excessive amount of people.

Kaylee Ann · Jul 25, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Skill is a huge factor, but there is always that element of dumb luck too. I bet everyone here has had this happen to them:

You kill one or two of the other teams people. You decide it is perfect timing for frozen soil and you drop it. But, the other group was really fast with the sigs and got the people up before you dropped it. Then just out of no where, one or two of your monks drop (spike, putrid, out of energy, whatever). Frozen is down, and you just want to scream because your own frozen is now screwing you....

And, the best builds/players/whatever all have atleast one counter, error = 7.... I don't know how many times I have been in GvG or halls and a monk drops out of no where to it.

And don't get discouraged from losing. EVERYONE in this game loses. No guild or player is immune to it, no matter how good they are....

Edge Martinez · Jul 25, 2005, 05:14 AM // 05:14

I know where you are coming from Pie. I played a simulation game for 7 years before GW, and not being able to manually target or have movement play a more major role was annoying at first. The fact that most tombs fights ends up being a game of chasing and being chased still bugs me.

The upside to GW PvP? The best play the best. They don't just play each other, but they actively seek each other out and win or lose, they learn from each battle and come back again. In most FPS's that I've played, it would be a rare occurence for ace players to face off against each other. The whole setup of GW makes it possible to face any situation with a given set of skills if you play your cards correctly and adapt to your environment. In GW, a team of new players have the chance to beat an experienced group if they react well. This PvP system is why I think Anet hit the nail on the head when they said GW is more about skill than time played.

Phades · Jul 25, 2005, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishin

Bigger teams would degenerate the tactical, pseudo-squad based element of GW, and everything would just descend into chaos and randomness. It would become a mess very, very quickly. Its also terrible on system/server resources after awhile: Anyone who's played in the lagfest that is a Lineage II castle siege could tell you some serious horror stories, granted those could contain a vastly excessive amount of people.

Lineage is a very poor example for balance. Make range attack specialists faster than everyone else, combined with the way armor mitigation works and have bows hit the hardest was utter garbage. Watching melee specialists lose out to range specialists in melee was a rather unique sight to behold, as was watching them one shot kill softer targets.

Bigger teams wouldnt neccacarially lead to chaos, if there was multiple objectives involved. The problem with most games lately, is that they focus on only one or two objectives within the mission area opposed to many of them layered or required at the same time. This gives purpose, meaning, and proper scale to the larger battles. Larger battles of that nature also allow the opportunity for you to lose in one location, but regroup and try something different, fight in waves at multiple locations, feign movement in positioning ect. Granted, there are counter tactics to each, but forcing more than just kill the enemy or hold one position, requires the breakup of the large masses of people or risk being outmanuvered, while at the same time placing emphasis on coordination and overal tactical sucess.

Mimi Miyagi · Jul 25, 2005, 08:10 AM // 08:10

I think the original poster fell into a common bias - insisting on playing a certain character class regardless of how it would fit in with random PUGs.

Most PUGs are created with a specific simple build in mind. A seedball, a spiker group, a trapper group, spirit spamming, etc. While all classes have their place in PvP, some fit in better than others. If you stroll into the Tombs districts with a W/N, you're not going to get many invites. Stroll in with an air elementalist then you'll probably be snatched up right away. Or a Ranger, since spirit builds seem to be a build favorite.

When you're unaffiliated with a guild, having the most common character builds makes getting into groups MUCH easier. You've seen that with a Monk - all PUGs need monks, hardly anyone would bother to ask a W/N to join. PvP PUGs aren't like joining a PVE mission group - they tend to be a lot more picky about what character classes they take in PvP. In PVE, you're just a meat shield if you're a warrior. In PvP you are much more specialized and have an important role in the team's engine.

To make yourself more attractive to PUGs, unlocking several different professions and skill trees is better than JUST 1-2.

Find a guild to join. This can be fairly difficult for some, if you don't have personal aquaintances that can form a natural guild. Most people spamming recruitment messages in LA are noobs - if you're not already playing PvP on a semi regular basis you're probably not good enough to join a semi-serious team just by blind invites. The best place to join a good guild is in tombs, or team arenas, where you can join a guild looking for a player to flesh out an almost filled team and maybe just short a particular profession. Get on TS/Vent play with them, ask questions, get to know folks, and if you're at least not a complete moron you'll probably eventually get an invite from a team willing to spend some time helping you get better.

I enjoy both PvE and PvP equally well. Our guild has picked up quite a few excellent players simply by playing Tombs and creating PUGs, and using that as a time to evaluate players and give invites to those that seem to fit in the best. It's well worth the effort for both sides.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Jul 25, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Practice more in random PvP matches in the "Competitive Arenas".

Aaaaagh · Jul 25, 2005, 08:43 AM // 08:43

To OP: It sounds like you only tried one type of character in PvP. Try a few others, you might like different combinations better. Also, you said you werent in a guild. If you were you would find a much more reliable group of players to PvP with.

Numa Pompilius · Jul 25, 2005, 10:33 AM // 10:33

PieXags: you said exactly what I meant to say but didn't manage to.